[Light Vs Shadow] - HEROES AND VILLIANS MAFIA

[Pantsonfire]

Until then keep in mind that I have defended both you Des and wombat from near the start. There is no way for me to prove my role to you unfortunately, perhaps I should hVe revealed earlier and gained trust rather than simply requesting it so close to the end.

[hazelkrs1]

Wouldn't have really mattered when you revealed, BG really has no reason to go after you specifically unless you were his ex-teammate. It would prob have been far easier to say someone else was his ex-teammate, or just vote Tiink since Turin already tried saying he was his teammate and I had already voted him.

 

I'm 90% sure you're mafia at this point Pants

[Pantsonfire]

But I can start of by saying that if you read BG's long post he blatantly admits to being scum. Falsely referring to me as his 'teammate'.

 

There is no risk to take! Lynch BG, then lynch tiink. After that town has definately advantage and can squabble some more

[Pantsonfire]

In fact after.that depending on how the NK's pan out I will self sacrifice so you can see I am town and will trust eachother enough to finish off the scum

[Pantsonfire]

You broke up my quadruple post lol. Ex-team mate? Don't give me that crap. Why would tal change someone with fu knowledge of a mafia team to town? That's ludicrous! For the very reason that they would sell out their team and create an extremely unbalanced game.

 

BG lies his arse off and at this stage in the game I doubt I can do much to change your mind. GG

[Pantsonfire]

Might I suggest evening out numbers first and lynching tiink. That will at least give you a the numbers to make such a wonton mistake

[hazelkrs1]

The thing is BG is saying his win condition changed, and the way he's stating it just seems to crazy to think it's a lie. Plus you're not really casing Tiink, just trying to divert attention off yourself. Show me how he's scummy in some way.

 

Plus, you didn't really even try to flatter me, BG did a much better job of that

 

And, why in the world would you have wasted two NA's on me, when all my moves pretty much helped back up how much I was helping town? Even if you're not mafia, that wasn't really the smartest move. I'm not saying I think you might be town, but this makes your play look even more suspect so in other words I really don't trust your claim. All of your "findings" are way too convenient

[Pantsonfire]

They are day actions to start. It was the super short day after Locke was lynched and I wanted to use something so I figured I would ratify your alignment as well as your role. It wasn't necessary but I had nothing better to use at the time.

 

Did I not defend wombat after day three? Did he not get off a lynch? I tried with Tina but Amadine jumped it an lynched her. Which might I point out lead to amadine's lynch.

[Pantsonfire]

Why would o spearhead the lynch of someone apparently on my team? Big FoS on BG

[Pantsonfire]

That is my major rebuttal now that I'm home all others simply come down to calling him a liar

[Pantsonfire]

One who so notably saved BG's ass btw

[Pantsonfire]

I suppose he's covered that in there somewhere hasn't he? Would make a slip like that. Des your probs the only one who has read though it fully. I don't have the time be critical. If you still think I'm worth a lynch fondue it.

 

 

Ps I don't need to case tiink. He confessed. He's catwoman!

[hotpocket2006]

I would work it through symetry in the scum teams. I believe Song is also scum, being BG's partner. While I can't provide you with a load of half truths an implications I will dissemble BG's post and rebutt when I get home.

 

This just seals your death for me pants.

[Pantsonfire]

I am working a proper rebuttle now

[Pantsonfire]

Forgive me is I repeat myself, but I finally have time for a more structured rebuttal.

 

 

 

Here it is, but I feel weird casing a former teammate.

 

Our team was given as Pants,Kae,Me,Amadine,Meesh in that order. Kae was the Killer, when he died it went to the next person in line. I didn't think anything about Pants being listed above Kae, and therefore not in line to receive the kill at the time.

 

 

I spearheaded her lynch following the death of Tina, whom I put myself on the life to defend and beseeched all for time to substaniate it. If it had come to it I would have revealed here to save Tina.

 

First off, I want you to notice how nobody has ever seriously FoSed or attacked Pants, other than his randomness on the first day or so. Kinda lynch proof with 9/20 people making sure he's not lynched.

 

 

By your own working I would have had only 4/19 other people not making claims against me. Perhaps an excusable error with the maths but I beieve you are simply trying to make it seem I had a form of 'scum advantage'.

 

I'm fairly certain that he might be a solo win case, either that or he threw in with Turin assuming that I'd be more most likely to be lynched, which I completely understand. Either way, at the beginning of Day 7 my win condition was changed and I was denied communication from then on out. Probably because I'm the only one on my team left and he officially abandoned me and with no Godfather there is no mafia. Just guessing. Also, I want you to know that for the most part, he kinda took a backseat and was a bit indifferent to what we were doing letting us make the decisions.

 

 

I have sent the BoldBlue statement as my query for today. When I have results I will pass them along.

 

 

Anyway, there is a good chance you don't believe me, and I don't expect you to believe me on a simple whim so let me run things through for you.

------------------------

Day 1:

He was acting a bit crazy and we tried to settle him down. But he kept editing his posts. Anyway, he lost his Godfathering ability for the night so if he was viewed he woulda flipped scum this night. I'm not sure what went on on the other team, but this is what we planned for with him, and he seems to have followed it. Maybe he worked with the other team to implement the same idea with them. He'd play the newbie card when appropriate and fake LD throughout the game. It was a good claim for him since it is easy to fake and leave trails of throughout the game and he won't get seen by a tracker or watcher.

 

So anyway, that night we decided on the following actions:

 

RB Des

Switched Red/Meesh

Kill Wombat

I can only assume that the other team tried to kill Wombat as well. Wombat self protected and we all got messed up.

 

 

 

This is simply lies. I don't like having no supporting evidence, I hope that you can appreciate that while I can't prove it False, BG cannot prove it True.

 

---------------------------------

Day 2:

Since the plan to kill Wombat failed, we got bitter and decided to try and lynch him instead. And decided Pants should lead it off incase he was ever Findered for it. After which I'd back him up and push a little harder. Anyway, he wanted to try to draw a Finder to his Godfather status so he made some more off kilter remarks. Also since he is Godfather, we want him to be the town sympathizer in the group. Then when it was apparent Wombat wasn't getting lynched, we all migrated to the next likely subject and Pants hammered it home for us on Poet. By the way, you might notice him starting to hint at his LD role here, but he screwed it up a bit because he says he believes Desp role on Day 2, rather than waiting till Night 2 when the NA would go through. So we decide if worse comes to worse, claim Day Action LD.

 

 

It is a day action.

 

 

That night we go all out on Wombat:

RB Wombat

Kill Wombat

Switch Meesh/Desp

 

But when day came something interesting happened... Hoof died for hiding with Leyrann, that was obvious... but then Leyrann died.

At this point we knew there were 2 mafias obviously and that they (Leelou) had switched Wombat and Leyrann, probably to get his protection. I can only assume that Pants thought the Leelou switch wouldn't have caused a death cause of Wombat self protect, or he was just willing to sacrifice a teammate for some greater scheme... like vetting Leelou maybe . Or if his win condition was solo, it allowed him to start picking people off.

 

 

All BG is doing is retelling events that occured and construing them against me. However he has nothing real to add here.

 

 

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Day 3:

 

We have him start hinting at Wombat being town,

 

Because I knew at this point he was town. This quote made it very easy to ratify him.

 

 

 

And yes, I am town.

 

 

 

cause at this point, there is no killing the dude. But we want to use the pressure a little first so he doesn't claim to know Wombat is town till AFTER his healer role reveal.

 

Simply put I felt he needed a little verbal support out there.....

 

In fact Pants kinda eggs it on a little, then right afterward gets kinda chastizy about it. As the day plays out, we decide to bus Kae cause we knew someone had to take the fall for it since it was obvious someone on the list was scum and Kae was pinging already.

 

 

I don't even know what you mean by this. Can I have a quote?

 

 

Here's the kicker:

From this point on I stopped using my RB all together. And this is also the best proof I have for you, though you have to take my word for it, so it isn't really proof at all, but anyway...

 

Completely baseless....

Kill Turin 1.0

Switch BG/Pants

We wanted to switch me with someone who'd show up as Town (as I was taking a little heat after announcing I was a RB... coulda been a Backup Finder, ya never know). Now that means switching me with Pants. Plus it would hide my kill from Song. So because of the switch, I killed Turin 1.0 unhindered and Tina actually RB'd Pants. This also means that Song viewed Pants, who had no NA.

 

Gee now why would I show up as town if I'm Godfather?

 

[hotpocket2006]

Because godfathers show up as town. Duh. http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Godfather

[hazelkrs1]

Yeah Pants I'm sorry but nothing in your detailed rebuttal convinced me to unvote you. Kinda wish I could double vote you honestly, but I guess I can wait till Wombat comes back on

[Pantsonfire]

I'm finishing it with the other half now, but I suppose it is just more of the same.

 

 

 

Thankyou for that Song.

[Pantsonfire]

 

 

 

I'm not sure what the other team did, but Meesh died that night. I'm thinking that Leelou probably lied and didn't switch Wombat and Meesh, that's the only thing I can think of there.

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Day 4:

We decided that there was a fair chance I might get lynched by counterclaiming Tina, especially after Turin flipping Jailer so we'd place our Godfather on my own vote early on and keep him there. It was risky, but it worked out. At this point, I'll be honest, I truly thought Tina was RB for the other team. My head exploded when she flipped town.

 

Did you eat your hat? We are still waiting for pictures btw.....

 

I thought I was dead for sure the next day. I got a little concerned that day as he started asking people on the opposite side to vote for me, I didn't see why he'd encourage it so much.

 

Beacause I knew Tina was town thanks to this quote:

 

[bold]I´m town[/bold]. Can you say the same? I blocked Wombat because I thought he lied about being an inventor. If he would have told us that he had invented something then I would know that he lied. Why did you block him?

 

In retrospect, knowing he's playing for both teams or is solo makes sense to me.

 

 

Your stance changes from hypothesising to certainty here....

 

Here's an interesting night:

Switch Myself/Red

Kill Myself, in attempt to kill Red.

Kinda thought Wombat MIGHT protect Red since we had her pegged as Mason (at least I did) from vote counts and process of elimination.

...

For some reason Leelou and AH died. I targeted Myself... to kill Red... and instead AH died and Leelou died? I probably got blocked.

AH probably knocked off Leelou, and Locke probably offed AH. That's my theory at least.

 

 

 

Heart wants to know who killed here btw

 

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Day 5:

I told Pants to back off because he was laying the pressure a little thick the day before and so he basically left me completely alone on this day.

 

I had Amadine in my sights, I don't think I was active much this day either.

 

But then he FoS'd Amadine pretty good for the Hammer. Which I suppose was inevitable, but we didn't need to bring it up. It took of way faster than I hoped for and I helped to Bus Amadine to protect myself. Pants starts laying in the LD hints super thick. I think he wanted people to know for certain. But again, he had nothing to fear from Mafia because after all, he was on both our teams...

 

I'd been fearing a night kill since around this point because of it. I didn't figure on it being ignored because it was hard to prove.

 

Anyway, that night I tried to Kill Locke, but Locke didn't die. I can assume that I was RB'd again. Something Pants would have known, but did not inform me of...

 

I guess he saw our team as a dying team and therefore was picking us off with the other team. Then I can only assume that whoever they targeted Wombat saved.

 

The teams were pretty much even.....

 

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Day 6:

I come out swinging at Locke without consulting. Pants says he'll vote with me and does. Then for some reason he tries to Unvote Locke last minute to keep him alive...

 

It would have been great! One mafia team crippled by you BG (claiming RB'er). I figured it would have kept you honest and given us time to decifer who to be suspicious of. Worst come to worst you say that you block and don't then I'd catch you up on it the next day. You're all too stuck in your ways if you can't see a measure of town advantage in that move.....

 

I figure, meh, trying to sound Townie, but I kinda think he was serious now. I'd have to RB Locke or town would know I had a kill when 2 kills would happen. More blatant LD hints meant to be noticed. More about this later. Luckily, we hit Hammer before he could unvote.

 

I wanted to NK Turin, but Pants suggested Red instead. It was a toss up, and Red started casing me bad so I agreed and killed Red.

 

Another save for BG. Lucky death for him that's for sure

 

I suppose Turin did too. I must have seen like the sinking ship of the two at this point. When morning came, it was at this point I was informed my alignment changed and I was no longer allowed communication with Pants or to kill.

 

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Day 7:

I figured I got screwed over. Let it be, so I bent over to take it. Then wonderful Desp flew in and saved my butt by announcing Turin was on Red too. I had to think quickly. I figured Turin might not know what happened, but I knew. If I immediately flipped on Pants, it would gain me nothing.

 

I wanted Turin to out Pants, so I attempted to manipulate. It worked to a degree, thanks to Desp again. But then Turin failed me and claimed Tiink. Makes sense, quiet guy in the corner who voted for me. Takes the pressure off anyone else and it is fairly believable.

 

 

Then something happened that made me believe he had the solo win condition. He votes Turin. Maybe everything backfired when Desp outed Turin, and he was just trying to vet himself. But then him and Turin have this friendly convo. about his LD stuff.

Turin is basically dead at this point, but they are talking it out without any weirdness, like Turin was a townie. I see what is going on as he is trying to get Pants to "disprove" my claim that Desp is my partner through one of his LD night actions. Pants starts getting a little cocky I think at this point saying how scum are taking full advantage and talking about town in 3rd person.

 

 

I thought Des was trying to lull you all into a false sense of security.

 

 

In conclusion:

 

I think he either had a solo win condition or he had to abandon a team first before it was completetly eliminated though as a part of that win. He probably thought he had a better shot of taking me out, but we flipped it around on him, so he betrayed his partner to clear his name.

 

So then in an effort to out Pants in a lie, I asked him to give his NA results in full, since I knew I had evidence he had none on one night in particular.

 

Here is what he claims: (and it only partially makes sense if you accept that his ability is a Day action)

 

D1 N/A

 

D2 DES is the watcher - Hints this DURING Day 2

 

D3 wombat is town - Hints this DURING Day 3, even though he waits for the Healer claim first.

 

D4 Tina is town - Hints this DURING Day 4 - (Song's track was on him N3 though, so that shows there wasn't a NA, btw)

 

D5 (day before [Locke] was lynched (Day 6)) - Locke is scum, but he doesn't vote Locke that day. He doesn't hint Locke that day, only that he plans on testing him with his outrageeous "ARE YOU MAFIA?" line. This would make sense if he had a Night Action on on N5 to check this out, but previous days have made it clear it would have to be a Day Action.

 

It wasn't

 

D6 Des is town - Why even check this at this point? I thought we all knew that a long time ago.

 

 

It was a short day and I was rushed to do with my role. Simply put.

 

 

 

Other than his additions this represents an accutate summary of my results.

 

 

I'm sure he'll tell you I'm lying today. Whatever. I've said my peace piece.

 

Point ought to be taken away from BG for bad grammar.

 

 

 

 

As Des has pointed out it is mighty hard for me to change your minds. I do beseech you lynch Tink first to even out the numbers. You'll easily get me tomorrow.

[hotpocket2006]

 

 

As Des has pointed out it is mighty hard for me to change your minds. I do beseech you lynch Tink first to even out the numbers. You'll easily get me tomorrow.

 

That makes no sense. If Tiink is indeed a solo win, and you and bg are both mafia, then a kill tonight will not be good for us. We can go after tiink if we need to later, as of now our goal is to kill mafia.

[Pantsonfire]

Perhaps I am confused about what Tiink said....

 

 

 

 

Does he still get his teams NK?

 

 

[hotpocket2006]

No he is a solo win. He can win with either the mafia or the town. He never said whether he had an NK. He is dangerous because he really doesn't care which way this goes, but with our numbers game mafia is more dangerous at this stage, and hopefully he'll side with the town *flutters eyelashes at Tiink* and vote with us.

[Pantsonfire]

I have my reading on the quote earlier.

 

 

 

BG IS NOT THE ONLY ONE LEFT IN HIS TEAM.

 

I know you won't believe me Des but BG is not the last member of his mafia.

 

 

I'll get that out there anyway and go to bed.

 

 

 

[Pantsonfire]

This confrims my theories and makes this the point where the game ends.

 

 

Town:

1. Des
2. Wombat
3. Pants

Mafia:

 

1. BG
2. Song

Ambivalent:

 

1. Tiinker

If we lose this numbers advantage Town loses. End of story.

 

 

You may have to go on my word but so help me if my Pants aren't on fire for irony's sake......

 

 

[Talya]

This is a hammer vote, sorry I meant to mention earlier.

 

DAY 8 VOTE

 

 

Tiinks (1): Des

 

Pants (3): BG, Song, Des

 

BG (1): Pants