Strategy for the last battle?

[ajslide2929]

Alright so.we all know that originally the Dragon and the hundred companions seald the bore and it was widly beleaved that if the woman had joind the bore may have been seald forever. However that didn't happen and so it was a temporary seal. My question is this. What do ppl think the last battle will amount to how will Rand win and what do you think the stratagy will be?

[Suttree]

Alright so.we all know that originally the Dragon and the hundred companions seald the bore and it was widly beleaved that if the woman had joind the bore may have been seald forever.

 

It's not widely believed at all. Per RJ the plan was flawed...

 

Budapest Q&A - April 2003

 

And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant”, which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it. The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted.

[ajslide2929]

There is a feagment of documents from the age of legands that has both sides split down the middle. The female Aes sedai wanted to use the two sa'angreal to seal off shoyal gaul. However the access keys were in a labd the samaels armies captured ect and Lews therin realizing they were months from lossing decided to srike with just the hundred companions. If they had uses both male and femail they would have been able to like and make the cirxle a lot bigger then 13 and there may nit have been a counterstroke because of the amount of saidar and saiden could have been to strong to overwhelm. However I digress. What do you think now the strategy will be and what do you think will haooen on both sides and ect

[ajslide2929]

At the same time right now with ToM Rand is trying to do lews therins original plan and egwine is trying to gather support to stop him. The only difference this time from befor is that now rand has some aes sadie that are sworn to ober him. P.s. don't mind all my spelling errors I'm on my cell and the keybored is small

[Suttree]

Yes I know about the "Strike at SG" document. It changes nothing concerning the plan and the quote above comes straight from RJ. We have word of God here that Saidar would have been tainted as well if the females had been involved, there is now way around it, the plan was flawed.

 

Even Rand knows he can cannot attempt to seal the bore the same way and he is most def not using LTT's plan, it's why he is asking Min to find the answers for him.

 

ToM

I cannot seal the Bore the way I tried last time. I'm missing something, something vital. Find it for me."

 

The size of the circle has nothing to do with it, per RJ if the women had been involved Saidar would have been tainted as well.

[baalsmistress]

Actually, no.

 

Rand expressly said thet he could not seal the bore the way he triied before. And Egwene is wanting to change his mind on breaking the seals. When the bore was sealed in the AoL, there were no seals. That's when they were created. Egwene has no knowledge of Rand's plans beyond breaking the seals (nor does she know he doesn't have a plan), so she is not trying to stop those plans.

[ajslide2929]

Haha I tottaly just read the other documents and realized I had half my info incomplete lol. Ok so in ur opinion how do you think the last battle will play out. Personally I don't see Rand going one on one with the Dark One granted he's good ect but he isn't the Creator

[Eht Slat Meit]

Hmmm, strategy for the Last Battle. I'd say...

 

Mat, Thom and Moiraine travel to the Tower for the Horn, walk into the middle of a battle between the White Tower and the Seanchan. Through some might stroke of ta'verenosity, likely through bringing forth the Horn, he gets a ceasefire long enough to assert the power of his new role. He is forced to make a decision that will determine the fate of the Tower, and whatever results, he takes up the lead of the Seanchan armies, kneeling plot is resolved, and TG gets underway (already started, as of the end of ToM).

 

Rand takes a force with him to spring Moradin's trap, and in the process takes Lanfear, Moghedien and Graendal out of the picture.

 

1. First stage - Demandred finally makes his move, revealing that the destruction of the Borderlands is simply the first stage. All of his cards are revealed, and we finally get some PoV that shows he lives up to his reputation as second only to LTT by seeing the full scope of his "rule". Murandy, the combined might of the Black Tower dreadlords and his ally Mesaana's surviving Black Ajah, perhaps some Sharrans and Madmen for spice, and the full weight of the Blight (red-veiled Aiel army) are levied against mankind in a land-based assault that encircles nearly the entire allied forces of the Dragon.

 

2. The armies of the Dragon face off against those of Demandred in a number of attacks and counterstrikes. Various characters finally get their respective MOAs.

 

3. Lan's Band takes Shaidar Haran off the board, Perrin's armies deal with Slayer, and Team Mat basically rallies a devastating offense that confronts the last defenses of the Shadows armies. Rand takes out Demandred while war rages beyond the Bore at Shayol Ghul.

 

4. Rand confronts Moradin for eht slat meit (ho ho ho) and uses their bond to initiate the -true- Last Battle... the battle between the Dragon and Dark One... the Light and Shadow. Rand reveals the full scope of what he has already hinted at... he is not a weapon, but a vessel for the Light. The Light, the essence of that which is the Dragon, is disseminated, dispelling Shadow and both are destroyed.

 

5. Nature abhors a vaccum and Fain, that soul of corruption and evil that coexists with the Dark One, is sucked into and trapped in the DO's former prison, becoming a new enemy that will be discovered by an Age yet to come.

 

6. Thus the wheel of time turns.

[FarShainMael]

Haha I tottaly just read the other documents and realized I had half my info incomplete lol. Ok so in ur opinion how do you think the last battle will play out. Personally I don't see Rand going one on one with the Dark One granted he's good ect but he isn't the Creator

 

I think that's what the Light in his brain is all about. Yes, RJ has said there won't be any miracles, because that would mean (he says) that the Creator's handiwork is less than perfect.. but since Rand is a finite being he will need assistance, an assistance that was built in to that handiwork from the start. Only the Chosen One can do what must be done, can use that assistance, if he will. And he made that choice in VoG.

 

As for going one-on-one with the DO:

 

Rand, a brilliant white sword held in his hand, wielded against one of black, held by a faceless darkness.

[mb]

There have been similar threads in the past.

 

To me Treesinging would be the best way to seal the Bore.

 

 

About the Horn, there might be a chance of Mat going to the White Tower for it; though I am not sure about during a Seanchan attack.

Another possibility would be that Suian would fetch it from where it is located and some Aes Sedia carrying it to Mat.

 

 

At the beginning of Tarmon Gaidon, I imagine Rand would do 2 gateways; one to Tarwin's Gap to send soldiers for Lan, the other to Shayol Ghul for the rest of the soldiers.

Other channelers I imagine would do gateways to Shayol Ghul.

 

Perrin I imagine would be leading at least wolves and Two Rivers men; possibly also Ghealdan soldiers. If he gains Saldaea's crown, then also Saldaea.

 

Mat would be leading his band; possibly also Seanchan. Possibly also the Heroes after blowing the Horn.

[1Brotherbill]

I would say that the last battle is going to be kind of a downer in most peoples minds. First off breaking the seals can't be all that bad. After all they did it at the end of the Age of Legends right. It wasn't the end of the pattern then when the Dark One could put his hands on everything. So when rand clears out the bore and he seals it with Nye and Avi's or possibly Mor's help it will be kind of a anti climactic event.

 

The whole blood on the rocks of Shaygul would probably revolve around Fain.

 

After all that is done. Now comes the Trolloc killing fest. Which would probably go on for years.

 

Then comes Loail singing the Ways back to life.

 

Then comes the Aiel and all the other channelers getting taken out of the picture for a few thousand years.

 

And the age becomes a more industrial age with cars and airplanes and cybornetic computers.

 

And all the people in the current age would not believe in the possibility that there was a previous age or a Dark One or the Dragon or any of that. I would be kind of like today. Good stuff.

[bsmnt23]

I'm not sure about some of the details, but there a few things I am sure of. Fain will be the key to victory. Weather he will be that which must touch the dark one, or just be the crucial distraction in that moment of dire need. This series is still High Fantasy and certain tropes must be adhered to.

 

Rand Sedai will have another face-to with Fortuona about her people. Rand will lay the super ta'verin whammy on her and "divide the land with the sword of justice, tying the east with the north and the west with the south". He's going to give the Seanchan the east which she already has, and probably illian and tear. His shiny new sword he will give her as a gift, the relic of the High King to seal the deal. This gives the more conventional fighting more of a fighting chance.

 

Logain will confront Taim, thats a given at this point.

 

Caemlyn is going to be destroyed; thats a given as well considering the source material.

 

The rest is gravy as far as I'm concerned.

[jnabers]

Camelyn's got to survive, if nothing else because if it does fall then the Band of the Red Hand, the Kin and Mat's new cannons all go down with it. When ToM ended, Talmanes (I probably just butchered his name) was rallying the band to save the city, so for them to not succeed would result in a loss way too big for the light to bounce back from this late in the game.

 

As for strategy: Their NUMBER ONE priority will be to destroy or incapacitate the blight as a whole. Not only is it filled with armies and hordes of shadow twisted monsters, the area itself is an enemy. True, it can be circumvented but that means being trapped with all the armies of the shadow behind you and the dark one in front! And if you did travel straight over then that also means setting Aes Sedai aside for keeping your gateway supply lines open. That means fewer fighters, defenders and healers on the front lines. I think Tinker and Ogier singing could come into play here, like when Loial sang to the green man's tree grave and the blight seemed to go quiet for years.

 

Second is that Rands got to start teaching his fellow channelers some AoL weaves of mass destruction. I'll be cursing mad if he never uses that "Shadow Rising" trolloc seeking lightning storm again and since he has memories from a time when linking was an everyday thing, he can pass on the women's version of anything he knows.

 

Beyond that I've got no clue. I could go into different tactics and battle results all day but anything I can think of will probably pale in comparison. Granted, RJ usually wrote huge battles as a cut from a perspective here and another hours later from there but this is the Last Battle we're talking about.

There's no way it will disappoint, I'm just happy it's being told.

[1Brotherbill]

Beyond that I've got no clue. I could go into different tactics and battle results all day but anything I can think of will probably pale in comparison. Granted, RJ usually wrote huge battles as a cut from a perspective here and another hours later from there but this is the Last Battle we're talking about.

There's no way it will disappoint, I'm just happy it's being told.

 

Two maybe three chapters at best. Everything else will be the string that wraps up the series. Gawyn with the rings. Elayne with the super children. Matt and the horn. Perrin rebuilding Mantheren being that Andor is going to be fractured. Lan killing about a hundred thousand Trollocs. Nye healing everyone of the Ashaman. Egwene stepping down as Amyrlin when the towers unite. Logain getting glory which probably revolves around Egwene and the white tower. The amount of stuff to be covered in the last book is mind boggling when you think about it. For everything that isn't covered will sour the series in my opinion.

[Luckers]

There is a feagment of documents from the age of legands that has both sides split down the middle. The female Aes sedai wanted to use the two sa'angreal to seal off shoyal gaul. However the access keys were in a labd the samaels armies captured ect and Lews therin realizing they were months from lossing decided to srike with just the hundred companions. If they had uses both male and femail they would have been able to like and make the cirxle a lot bigger then 13 and there may nit have been a counterstroke because of the amount of saidar and saiden could have been to strong to overwhelm. However I digress. What do you think now the strategy will be and what do you think will haooen on both sides and ect

 

The Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends weren't divided on the issue of the sealing because they feared the Tainting, it was because they feared an attempt to lay the seals may well tear the bore open further. RJ has confirmed directly that an attempt to do so with a cross-gender link would have resulted in saidar being tainted as well.

 

In addition, the Aes Sedai weren't divided on gender lines about the use of the Choedan Kal. That came later, after the Access Keys were lost, when Lews Therin's plan began to gain more support in the Hall of Servants, Latra Posae Decume went to the the female Aes Sedai who were strong enough to take part in the sealing and got their agreements not to.

[bsmnt23]

Camelyn's got to survive, if nothing else because if it does fall then the Band of the Red Hand, the Kin and Mat's new cannons all go down with it. When ToM ended, Talmanes (I probably just butchered his name) was rallying the band to save the city, so for them to not succeed would result in a loss way too big for the light to bounce back from this late in the game.

 

 

I hate siting wikipedia, but its fastest.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Camlann

 

I think Camelyn's going down. Camelyn is too built up to be the most beautiful city in the world, and a symbol of Man's triumph and civilization. It almost has to die considering the themes of the series.

 

Tar Valon could also be listed as the most beautiful city, and a symbol of civilization, but also, consider the sourse. Avalon is untouchable. Nor is it a symbol of Man. The Aes Sedai are apart in their White Tower, and are not a part of Man's world, except to exert their infuluence. This takes Tar Valon out of the running for distruction.

 

Considering everything Camelyn might even be the site of the actual Last Battle, it is thematicly correct, and feeds into the rebuilding of Mantherin theories.

[FarShainMael]

RJ doesn't just take chunks of mythology and rework them - if he did, it would have been Artur Paendrag (Arthur Pendragon) who drew the Sword from the Stone. He spreads them around. The Battle of Camlann was a battle for succession, for the kingship of Britain, and Caemlyn has already had that battle, which Elayne won. So whatever is happening in Caemlyn New City, it isn't the Battle of Camlann.

 

Further, Caemlyn apparently survives TG, according to Avi's Rhuidean visions (ToM49).

[bsmnt23]

RJ doesn't just take chunks of mythology and rework them - if he did, it would have been Artur Paendrag (Arthur Pendragon) who drew the Sword from the Stone. He spreads them around. The Battle of Camlann was a battle for succession, for the kingship of Britain, and Caemlyn has already had that battle, which Elayne won. So whatever is happening in Caemlyn New City, it isn't the Battle of Camlann.

 

Further, Caemlyn apparently survives TG, according to Avi's Rhuidean visions (ToM49).

 

 

 

The destruction of Caemyln I am still certain of though I'll concede your point of RJ's reworking mythology instead of taking whole chunks from it. I'd like to clarify my stance on it, though; by destruction, I meant to say it would end up heavily damaged in the fight (or the Last Battle which still might take place there). The final victory of the Light is of course a given; again, its High Fantasy it's just the way things are in a genre. The damage could be fixed in the couple decades that have passed in Avi's vision. Given that the victory of the light is thematicly assured any damage to any major city, even its total destruction, would eventualy be repaired in time.

I'll also point out that the Andorian Succession was only a minor, though very...very...extended part of the story. The Battle of Camlann was also the Last Battle of Arthur (or Artos, or whatever) and that has conotations that I was picking up on. Like I said, just a theory. More than willing to be suprised.

[Suttree]

The final victory of the Light is of course a given; again, its High Fantasy it's just the way things are in a genre.

 

Tend to agree in relation to the WOT but if you are interested there are some series out their changing that. Abercrombies "First Law Trilogy", Carrey "Banewreaker" and Bakker "Prince of Nothing" to name a few.