mat

[adarkartist]

I haven't read all the post but i was wondering something.

 

If Mat hasn't died yet, he is still bound. And when he does die he will be unbound. People can be bound to the horn, as AH tells Hurin. So if Mat dies, he could be bound to the horn, and then couldn't someone yank him out of TaR like birgette was? And now that birgette has been out for a while now she is starting to loose some of her old memories. so if mat gets pulled out, couldn't he then start to loose the memories that the finn gave him, so that after the last battle he wouldn't have to keep remembering all the lives that are in his head? Also if he dies and is unbound to it maybe Oliver who is always close to him will blow the horn or something like that. Just wondering, not a writer so most of it wont make sense.

[rand4747]

I don't understand most of what you say but Mat has died before, he was killed by Rahvin and then brought back to life when Rand balefired Rahvin.

[Orderofolde]

That is a matter of some contesting. Rahvin was balefired so hard that he was ripped from the pattern and all his actions done back to a certain point before he killed Matt were undone as he never existed at that point. Only we as readers and Rand know that they were dead at one point, but it is only a memory, it never happened. I believe that he is supposed to die and live again, many thought that this was when Matt was hanged by the Finns in Rhudian but most agree that this is when they were attacking Caemlyn and the lightning hit.

 

One interesting thing to note is that Matt we have seen over the books fingering his scarf that covers his scar thinking back to the Finns and being hanged, but I haven't seen where he thinks of being dead and brought back. I believe from Rand's reaction he deduced that he'd died, and all the time in Caemlyn he doesn't remember the battle or having died there. Of course the Gholam occupies his mind while he is there.

[BekahRebel]

Yes, the events that occur before balefire is used can be remembered by those who are "effected" by the balefire. Mat remembers the darkhound chewing through his door and slobbering on his arm. I think Mat (and the others) cannot remember everything that happened in Caemlyn because they can't remember things that happened after they died.

 

Whether the foretelling of Mats death and resurrection is from the hanging or from Caemlyn, that foretelling doesn't effect his being bound to the Horn of Valere. He did (apparently) die in Rhuidean, and it is possible that means he is no longer actually bound to the Horn.. But, since only he and Rand know of that death, and neither is likely to think of the effect his death had on the Horn, everyone who knows of Mat blowing the Horn is still going to assume that only he can use it. So I guess it makes little difference anyways.

 

Olver blowing the Horn..? Maybe if Mat is holding the Horn, dies and Olver is right next to him at the time, sure it could happen. But Mat currently does not have the Horn with him, isn't with Olver, and the fate of Olver is a bit uncertain right now, considering the end of ToM :( And honestly, if he takes Olver to the Last Battle, I am not going to be impressed.

 

As for TaR, Birgitte and certain other souls are able to go there after death, those linked to the Horn for instance, but only those who are reborn as new Heroes in times of need, not every soul in existence. Mat is taveren, and a hero, but is he one of those Reborn's..? I don't recall him being mentioned as a Reborn soul and I'd think that would have been mentioned, even as just a possibility by at least one of the Aes Sedai...

[Lisa Campbell]

Yes, the events that occur before balefire is used can be remembered by those who are "effected" by the balefire. Mat remembers the darkhound chewing through his door and slobbering on his arm. I think Mat (and the others) cannot remember everything that happened in Caemlyn because they can't remember things that happened after they died.

 

Whether the foretelling of Mats death and resurrection is from the hanging or from Caemlyn, that foretelling doesn't effect his being bound to the Horn of Valere. He did (apparently) die in Rhuidean, and it is possible that means he is no longer actually bound to the Horn.. But, since only he and Rand know of that death, and neither is likely to think of the effect his death had on the Horn, everyone who knows of Mat blowing the Horn is still going to assume that only he can use it. So I guess it makes little difference anyways.

 

Olver blowing the Horn..? Maybe if Mat is holding the Horn, dies and Olver is right next to him at the time, sure it could happen. But Mat currently does not have the Horn with him, isn't with Olver, and the fate of Olver is a bit uncertain right now, considering the end of ToM :( And honestly, if he takes Olver to the Last Battle, I am not going to be impressed.

 

As for TaR, Birgitte and certain other souls are able to go there after death, those linked to the Horn for instance, but only those who are reborn as new Heroes in times of need, not every soul in existence. Mat is taveren, and a hero, but is he one of those Reborn's..? I don't recall him being mentioned as a Reborn soul and I'd think that would have been mentioned, even as just a possibility by at least one of the Aes Sedai...

 

I don't think Mat died in Rhuidean. He was on the edge of death, and Rand deliberately saved him with CPR because he knew that the power couldn't help him, which he had learned at the Stone with the girl he tried to resurect with the power he held through Callandor.

[Finnssss22]

It has been strongly implied by RJ in the past that Mat's death and then rebirth through balefire in tFoH fulfilled the prophecy in question.

 

 

As far as the Horn goes, I believe he is bound to it as long as his "thread" exists.

It's not like he was no longer ta'veren when he came back again so it would be logical that his "thread" is still intact along with his binding to the Horn.

[Lisa Campbell]

It has been strongly implied by RJ in the past that Mat's death and then rebirth through balefire in tFoH fulfilled the prophecy in question.

 

 

As far as the Horn goes, I believe he is bound to it as long as his "thread" exists.

It's not like he was no longer ta'veren when he came back again so it would be logical that his "thread" is still intact along with his binding to the Horn.

 

Agreed about to die and live again in TFoH (paragraph 1 of your post).

 

2nd point is interesting and somewhat valid. It makes me think about it in a different light.

[Majsju]

It has been strongly implied by RJ in the past that Mat's death and then rebirth through balefire in tFoH fulfilled the prophecy in question.

 

 

As far as the Horn goes, I believe he is bound to it as long as his "thread" exists.

It's not like he was no longer ta'veren when he came back again so it would be logical that his "thread" is still intact along with his binding to the Horn.

 

RJ did not imply this, he flat out said this is the case.

[JKN-SW]

Did Mats blowing the Horn bind him to it in the same way the heroes are bound? If so, I totally missed that. I know he is now the "hornblower" until he dies, but where is it stated that he is now a Hero of the horn?

[Finnssss22]

It has been strongly implied by RJ in the past that Mat's death and then rebirth through balefire in tFoH fulfilled the prophecy in question.

 

 

As far as the Horn goes, I believe he is bound to it as long as his "thread" exists.

It's not like he was no longer ta'veren when he came back again so it would be logical that his "thread" is still intact along with his binding to the Horn.

 

RJ did not imply this, he flat out said this is the case.

 

 

 

I haven't seen an interview that flat out states it, the only quote I could find was from a report in '96 summarizing the Q&A:

Pam Korda reporting:

When did Mat die and live again? He(RJ) said something that implied that the die and live again prophecy-fulfillment was the lightning incident in The Fires of Heaven, and not the hanging incident in The Shadow Rising.

 

 

 

Did Mats blowing the Horn bind him to it in the same way the heroes are bound? If so, I totally missed that. I know he is now the "hornblower" until he dies, but where is it stated that he is now a Hero of the horn?

 

It's not stated that he is a Hero of the Horn. That is a theory though but that's a whole other can of worms covered in other threads around here at length and then some ;)