Yet Another Taim Thread

[Vassili]

Let's face it, Taim is awesome. Hes almost as awesome as Ishadin. Unless he IS Ishadin...

 

Anyway, I found it interesting that everyone assumes Taim is a darkfriend. Granted, in retrospect the evidence against him is quite strong. Not only is he trying to kill our hero, the Champion of the Light, but hes employing known darkfriends and giving orders identical to Demandred's. And yet, just because you want to kill Rand al'Thor does not make you a darkfriend. Nor does using darkfriends (Galina and Katerine were Elaida's closest confidants).

 

Mostly what I found awkward about the "Taim is a DF" theory is his history. Why would a real darkfriend ever declare themself as the Dragon Reborn? And furthermore, why would a darkfriend hand the REAL Dragon a seal on his master's prison? (Yeah maybe it was an elaborate ploy to get Rand's trust, but if so, was it worth it? Rand was going to take Taim in seal or no seal. The shadow is currently desperate to get the seals. Maybe it comes back to dumb evil, but Moridin doesn't seem to be that dumb, and I can't imagine anyone else authoring a DF to hand over a seal to the Light.) Maybe Taim is just, you know, a power-hungry a**hole.

 

Even if he IS currently on the Dark One's payroll, maybe he was like Demandred. Taim is, I think intentionally, a modern day version of Demandred. But Demandred wasn't always a darkfriend, once he was a general for the Light. He was, however, an a**hole, and once it became clear he would never surpass Lews Therin, he realized his goals were more in line with the Shadow. Given Taim's desire to kill Rand, it would almost be foolish of him NOT to join forces with an organization as vast as the Shadow. That doesn't mean he was a DF from day one.

[Suttree]

Mostly what I found awkward about the "Taim is a DF" theory is his history. Why would a real darkfriend ever declare themself as the Dragon Reborn?

 

I'm not certain he was a DF at that time but to answer the question it would be a pretty good way to destabilize(Dragon breaks all bonds) the land and "Let the lord of chaos rule".

[Lisa Campbell]

I'm tending towards Taim being 13x13'd. So I'm voting that option, but I'd like to add a proviso:

 

What makes me think this is one of Cadsuane's early POV's about her capturing Taim and then leaving him with a bunch of Reds so she could collect her trusted AS companions and move on to Rand.

 

We know that a disproportionate number of Reds are Black, and the Blight is not far off so Myrdraal are easily accessed. I think it was at this time that he was turned but...

 

I also think he was compelled to forget the no doubt unpleasant occurrance of the turning so he wasn't acting like a Darkfriend (we've seen this with Moghedean and Graendal) until...

 

He had control of the Black Tower and met something/someone that triggered him to fully assume his Darkfriend status.

 

I can't remember exactly when this transition became apparent but I'm sure that plenty of you can add to this.

 

So, which Forsaken have ties to the Black Tower? Obviously Moridin and Demandred, but there was also Osan'Gar and possibly Sammael. So that leads me to my next question, who did Moghedean and Graendal have alliances with? Graendal with Sammael and Rhavin, Moghedean with ???

 

Like I said it all comes down to timing in my opinion. Can anyone elaborate or debate? I'll check the thread later on, going out for dinner soon.

[spoke]

There is subtle evidence to indicate that Taim (at least the original Taim for you forsaken theorizers) was a darkfriend from the start. Evidence suggesting this is the Darkfriend social, followed closely by the Aes Sedai gossip chapters. These worldly events suggest that Ba'alzamon was causing chaos world wide with THREE people declaring themselves Dragons, of the which we know at least one could channel (Taim). Whether you proscribe to the replacement of Taim with a forsaken later, I will not debate, but read TGH first chapters carefully and you will notice many similarities to characters identified by boors based on location and events in the world.

[GYLD]

Why would a real darkfriend ever declare themself as the Dragon Reborn?

 

I don't see why one wouldn't. A darkfriend false dragon might declare them self at their own initiative in a bid for personal power or the order might down from the Darkfriend chain of command in an attempt to sow chaos. Not all false dragons necessarily believe themselves to be the Dragon Reborn and destined to battle the Dark One.

[Lisa Campbell]

There is subtle evidence to indicate that Taim (at least the original Taim for you forsaken theorizers) was a darkfriend from the start. Evidence suggesting this is the Darkfriend social, followed closely by the Aes Sedai gossip chapters. These worldly events suggest that Ba'alzamon was causing chaos world wide with THREE people declaring themselves Dragons, of the which we know at least one could channel (Taim). Whether you proscribe to the replacement of Taim with a forsaken later, I will not debate, but read TGH first chapters carefully and you will notice many similarities to characters identified by boors based on location and events in the world.

 

That's why I said someone or something. I remember one of the visual-dream instructions Bors had of a curled horn rushing toward him but that's not to say that Taim wasn't there and didn't have other compelled instructions that would kick in at a later date or occurance. At first I thought Bors had this instruction because he was supposed to get the Horn at Falme, and it was when Mat sounded the Horn and Rand inadverdantly proclaimed himself Dragon and Taim's horse suddenly reared and threw him off allowing Cadsuane to capture him.

 

As far as I know Bors was never near Falme so I wonder about him seeing the Horn hurtling into his brain.