Which Ta'veren Has Performed The Darkest Deeds?

[cookiecrisp]

Matt clearly makes the least evil choices. I think he's more morally sound than the other two. He has to drink away the bad memories of his other men's pasts and seem to be more shocked at killing than Rand or Perrin. None of the killing he committed would be considered murder by today's legal systems.

 

Rand considers the compelled dead, sacrifices others, and knows himself to be doing morally evil acts. He has his list of women, and is willing to sacrifice his morals because he's sacrificed himself in his own mind. Rand dislikes torture, and refuses to let the Seanchan collar more women when he deals with them. Even in his hard state, he hasn't let everything go.

 

Perrin does as much sacrificing people, making questionable deals with the Seanchan, and killing as Rand. However, he doesn't seem to remember a single death he's caused, shows little remorse to the pain he's caused, caring more about how his wife is safely back, and doesn't seem to think he's ever done a single morally evil dead apart from being a bad leader. He even deluded himself into thinking he was just a blacksmith after causing some of the most death and pain, rivaling some of the Forsaken. A good thing about his barely existing conscience is that it manifested all his evil actions in his axe, which he threw away and seems to have happily forgotten. How many times has Perrin "lost himself" in battle against humans and killed without a care, only to be uncomfortable of himself afterwards instead of caring a wit for the men he's killed?

[Lisa Campbell]

Matt clearly makes the least evil choices. I think he's more morally sound than the other two. He has to drink away the bad memories of his other men's pasts and seem to be more shocked at killing than Rand or Perrin. None of the killing he committed would be considered murder by today's legal systems.

 

Rand considers the compelled dead, sacrifices others, and knows himself to be doing morally evil acts. He has his list of women, and is willing to sacrifice his morals because he's sacrificed himself in his own mind. Rand dislikes torture, and refuses to let the Seanchan collar more women when he deals with them. Even in his hard state, he hasn't let everything go.

 

Perrin does as much sacrificing people, making questionable deals with the Seanchan, and killing as Rand. However, he doesn't seem to remember a single death he's caused, shows little remorse to the pain he's caused, caring more about how his wife is safely back, and doesn't seem to think he's ever done a single morally evil dead apart from being a bad leader. He even deluded himself into thinking he was just a blacksmith after causing some of the most death and pain, rivaling some of the Forsaken. A good thing about his barely existing conscience is that it manifested all his evil actions in his axe, which he threw away and seems to have happily forgotten. How many times has Perrin "lost himself" in battle against humans and killed without a care, only to be uncomfortable of himself afterwards instead of caring a wit for the men he's killed?

 

In response to Perrin's actions, they were all things done before he accepted the wolf within so he was kinda crazy (my defense of the criminally insane). Now he has and wolves learn from their mistakes and move on.

 

Like I said they're in a war, it's not pretty, and you seem to forget that as a General, Mat has been responsible for the deaths of at least 100k (I think this is probably a modest estimate just including the Shaido and Elbar's 50K, plus all the other Seanchan the Band killed when escaping Altara). It's not a childlike innocence defining Mat and making him seem sweeter and rogueish, he doesn't get involved in the fighting because "a man could get himself dead doing that" - paraphrasing - but on top of his memories, that is what makes him a Great General, possibly the Greatest.

[David Selig]

I'd say Mat's actions during the Seanchan campaign in KoD are a lot more questionable morally than the women he killed, all of which were some kind of self-defence.

 

KoD, Ch. 27

 

On the road, a horse kicked feebly here and there. The only men moving were frantically trying to use whatever they had to hand for tourniquets to keep from bleeding to death. The wind brought the sound of running horses. Some might have riders. There were no more shouts from the deep voice.

“Mandevwin,” Mat shouted, “we’re done here. Mount the men. We have places to be.”

 

“You must stay to offer aid,” Teslyn said firmly. “The rules of war do demand it.”

 

“This is a new kind of war,” he told her harshly. Light, it was silent on the road, but he could still hear the screaming. “They’ll have to wait for their own to give them aid.”

 

Tuon murmured something half under her breath. He thought it was, “A lion can have no mercy,” but that was ridiculous.

This is morally quite problematic, especially considering that the Band were the invaders in this case.

[The Fisher King]

Oh the Perrin hate... stop bashing the guy because he's in love, it all worked out in the end.

 

Good did come from his attacking the Shaido (and he's not moping any more to boot), he decimated the Shaido and Masema's zealots, which can only be to the good. Who cares about the Shaido Wise Ones really? Now they're both stopped from spreading chaos, and hey, I'm not arguing that it wasn't pretty but Perrin, Mat and Rand are waging a war so they're going to get their hands dirty from time to time.

 

 

Tell that to the guy left with no hands or feet, lol ;)

 

 

 

Fish

[Lisa Campbell]

Oh the Perrin hate... stop bashing the guy because he's in love, it all worked out in the end.

 

Good did come from his attacking the Shaido (and he's not moping any more to boot), he decimated the Shaido and Masema's zealots, which can only be to the good. Who cares about the Shaido Wise Ones really? Now they're both stopped from spreading chaos, and hey, I'm not arguing that it wasn't pretty but Perrin, Mat and Rand are waging a war so they're going to get their hands dirty from time to time.

 

 

Tell that to the guy left with no hands or feet, lol ;)

 

 

 

Fish

 

He only lost one hand. Perrin told him that he had a little time and he would chop off the other hand and the feet and leave him to beg somewhere if he didn't 'fess up. Remember also that Perrin had one of the Aes Sedai heal him immediately. It was ruthless but better than slow torture because he and the other captured Aiel started talking and he didn't have to follow through with his threat.

[The Fisher King]

I'd say Mat's actions during the Seanchan campaign in KoD are a lot more questionable morally than the women he killed, all of which were some kind of self-defence.

 

KoD, Ch. 27

 

On the road, a horse kicked feebly here and there. The only men moving were frantically trying to use whatever they had to hand for tourniquets to keep from bleeding to death. The wind brought the sound of running horses. Some might have riders. There were no more shouts from the deep voice.

“Mandevwin,” Mat shouted, “we’re done here. Mount the men. We have places to be.”

 

“You must stay to offer aid,” Teslyn said firmly. “The rules of war do demand it.”

 

“This is a new kind of war,” he told her harshly. Light, it was silent on the road, but he could still hear the screaming. “They’ll have to wait for their own to give them aid.”

 

Tuon murmured something half under her breath. He thought it was, “A lion can have no mercy,” but that was ridiculous.

This is morally quite problematic, especially considering that the Band were the invaders in this case.

 

Brilliant write-up! You nailed it - the context of that particular scene with 100% accuracy.

 

Fish could not agree more with the above post!

 

This means you KNOW its right on! ;)

 

 

Fish