The World of RJ's Wheel of Time

[Corvinus]

I was just reading in the "The World of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time" about the Aiel War. There is a section which lists which countries participated at the Battle of the Blood Snow, and how large their forces were. Arad Doman is not mentioned, though in CoT, Rodel Itularde and another Domani lord, Shimron, recount fighting together at the Blood Snow. And if I remember correctly, in New Spring, Lan commands a company of soldiers which includes Domani.

So is it a mistake, or did the Domani only send a small contingent which was incorporated in larger groups?

[Joshua Hendrickson]

Probably a mistake, but as far as I know, THE WORLD OF ROBERT JORDAN'S THE WHEEL OF TIME hasn't been updated since it was first published, around the time of ACOS, years before COT came out, so don't blame RJ and Teresa Patterson.

[Terez]

It's a strange oversight if that's what it was, seeing as how they happen to mention that the captain of the Tower Guard (who was advising the Aes Sedai on the Alliance council) was a Domani . And why wouldn't Saldaea and Kandor participate? (Lan also had Saldaeans and Kandori.) Why not Tarabon, for that matter? Perhaps some Domani came south on their own, but the king/queen didn't, or something to that effect. So that might explain why Lan ended up with the Domani, Saldaeans, and Kandori - their rulers didn't participate. As for why the rulers wouldn't participate...all four nations not listed as part of the Alliance (not counting Mayene) are in the extreme west where the problem probably didn't seem like 'their problem' just yet. But there were probably many like Lan who believed that the Aiel were Darkfriends. That's why they came south to help. Lan's men were all northmen, so he was a good one to lead them - that might explain why he had no Taraboners, or perhaps the Taraboners are just less into fighting than the northmen (particularly fighting supposed servants of the Shadow...in the snow, no less).

[Never]

Wait, Lan believed all the Aiel were DF's?

[Terez]

Wait, Lan believed all the Aiel were DF's?

In the beginning, yes.

 

The Aiel had indeed seemed like a horde of Darkfriends when they suddenly spilled across the immense mountain range called the Spine of the World. They had burned the great city of Cairhien, ravaged the nation of Cairhien, and, in the two years since, had fought through Tear and then Andor before reaching these killing fields, outside the huge island city of Tar Valon. In all the years since the nations of the present day had been carved out of Artur Hawkwing's empire, the Aiel had never before left the desert called the Waste. They might have invaded before that; no one could be sure, except maybe the Aes Sedai in Tar Valon, but, as so often with the women of the White Tower, they were not saying. What Aes Sedai knew, they held close, and doled out by dribbles and drops when and if they chose. In the world outside of Tar Valon, though, many men had claimed to see a pattern. A thousand years had passed between the Breaking of the World and the Trolloc Wars, or so most historians said. Those wars had destroyed the nations that existed then, and no one doubted that the Dark One's hand had been behind them, imprisoned or not, as surely as it had been behind the War of the Shadow, and the Breaking, and the end of the Age of Legends. A thousand years from the Trolloc War until Hawkwing built an empire and that, too, was destroyed, after his death, in the War of the Hundred Years. Some historians said they saw the Dark One's hand in that war, too. And now, close enough to a thousand years after Hawkwing's empire died, the Aiel came, burning and killing. It had to be a pattern. Surely the Dark One must have directed them. Lan would never have come south if he had not believed that. He no longer did. But he had given his word.

(These thoughts came in response to Bukama making a comment about black-veiled Darkfriends, and Lan being surprised that Bukama still believed that.)

[Never]

Ah. I didn't notice. By the way, is this section referring to Ishamael? And is it known if he had any connection to Laman's Pride?

[Terez]

Lan probably didn't know anything about Ishamael's involvement in the 'pattern', and it seems unlikely that Ishamael was involved with Laman - we don't have evidence of him being out and about at that time, and his execution of Jarna Malari after the Aiel War is the first evidence we have that he is free.

[yoniy0]

Yes, I'd say a more likely culprit would be Gitara. I think someone even commented on Laman's sin being an indirect result of events in Andor (with Luc and Tigrain), somewhere in the books.

[Never]

I didn't mean that Lan would know about it, but the events referred to by Lan is a result of Ishamael, is it not? It would seem likely then, that Ishamael might have had someone to do with Laman's Pride; at least, it would complete a pattern.

[Leyrann]

If the BWB is right, then Ishamael was free in 983 NE. And Laman's Pride was in 976 NE.

[yoniy0]

I didn't mean that Lan would know about it, but the events referred to by Lan is a result of Ishamael, is it not? It would seem likely then, that Ishamael might have had someone to do with Laman's Pride; at least, it would complete a pattern.

The pattern is complete with what's been happening very lately - i.e. the Last Battle. The Aiel war doesn't fit in retrospect, and considering that its main consequence was the birth of the Dragon Reborn, I stand by my first comment. I think Gitara was more likely to want it to occur than Ishamael (unless this was the first instance where he simply failed to secure any favorable result in his scheming).

[hazelkrs1]

I actually think this is a really good theory, considering how well that the Aiel war could fit into the Shadow's plans. Having a huge devastating war scarring the memories of a few generations of wetlanders would definitely plant a seed of chaos and discontent later down the road, since Ishamael knew the importance of the Aiel.

[Never]

Yes, the Aiel would have been more.. popular.. in the Wetlands were it not for the events that occurred twenty years earlier, and I wouldn't bet money that Ishamael did not knew them to be the people of the Dragon. Furthermore, such a war would reduce the amounts of troops available 25 years later rather dramatically.

 

However, I'll trust Leryann on the matter.

 

The pattern is complete with what's been happening very lately - i.e. the Last Battle. The Aiel war doesn't fit in retrospect, and considering that its main consequence was the birth of the Dragon Reborn, I stand by my first comment. I think Gitara was more likely to want it to occur than Ishamael (unless this was the first instance where he simply failed to secure any favorable result in his scheming).

 

You misunderstand me, a pattern, not the Pattern.

[yoniy0]

No no, I meant "The pattern", not "the Pattern".

[JeffWeissberg]

Yes, I'd say a more likely culprit would be Gitara. I think someone even commented on Laman's sin being an indirect result of events in Andor (with Luc and Tigrain), somewhere in the books.

 

I actually just read this scene. It's LoC:16 when Rand meets with some Andoran nobles and Dyelin tells him about Luc and Tigraine. He pontificates at that point how everything started with that series of events. One strange note is that Dyelin doubts Girara's involvement "Myself, I doubt Gitara had anything to do with it, or with Luc..."

[yoniy0]

I actually just read this scene.

Are you sure? I believe Rand contemplated the events that led to his birth, not the reason for Laman's sin.

[JeffWeissberg]

I actually just read this scene.

Are you sure? I believe Rand contemplated the events that led to his birth, not the reason for Laman's sin.

 

The exact quotes in the text say:

 

Dyelin: "That marriage [Tigraine and Taringail] was meant to stop the wars with Cairhien, and it did, yet Tigraine vanishing made them think Andor wanted to break the treaty, which led them to scheme the way Cairhienin do, which led to Laman's Pride...My father said Gitara Sedai was at fault."

 

Rand's thoughts: "Tigraine went to the Waste in secret, which made Laman Damodred cut down Avendoraldera, a gift of the Aiel..."

 

Apparently both Dyelin and Rand make a connection between Tigraine's disappearance and Laman's Sin

 

*wishing Kindle Cloud Reader had copy/paste*

new here not really sure if there is a way to search and copy passages to quote

[yoniy0]

Ah, you're right! Thanks.

As to kindle, one way to copy short paragraphs is to select them and search the web, then do the rest in your browser

Here on DM, enclose a text with quote and /quote fields in brackets, just like it looks when you reply to a post.

[JeffWeissberg]

oh maybe you can do that with the app, with the new cloud reader, you can't select the text at all :(

[Terez]

Yes, I'd say a more likely culprit would be Gitara. I think someone even commented on Laman's sin being an indirect result of events in Andor (with Luc and Tigrain), somewhere in the books.

The year 965 NE saw Laman Damodred take the throne of Cairhien. War resumed between Andor and Cairhien to continue with only a minor break until 968.

 

Other nations also had their problems as the millennium drew toward a close. Illian and Tear went to war once more in 970, and the hostilities lasted almost six years although some writers divide the intermittent fighting into three separate wars; in addition, the enmity between Cairhien and Andor had become constant. Even the marriage of Taringail Damodred of Cairhien, nephew of King Laman, to Tigraine, the Daughter-Heir of Andor, only granted a temporary peace. The political marriage was reportedly not a happy one, especially for Tigraine. In 972 she disappeared, and the reigning Queen, Mordrellen, died with no heir, triggering an internal struggle for succession that ended in Morgase Trakand taking the throne. In an attempt to prevent another war with Cairhien, Morgase married Tigraine’s widower, Taringail, but unlike Tigraine she was not above reminding Taringail that he was not and never could be co-ruler of Andor.

 

A pebble slipping on a mountaintop can begin an avalanche, even when it was right and necessary that the pebble slip. Morgase’s failure to soothe Taringail’s ego was such a pebble. In Cairhien, Laman’s desire to see his nephew not merely co-ruler, but sole ruler, of Andor was well known; such things are difficult to hide in Cairhien, where children play the game of houses with their dolls and toy soldiers. That Taringail was in no way Morgase’s equal in rule quickly became public knowledge in Cairhien, and among those who play the Game of Houses as Cairhienin do, such a small, possibly even temporary, failure is seen as a weakness. Plots were born to unseat Laman, and he hatched his own schemes to counter them. As a minor part of one of his schemes, Laman cut down Avendoraldera to make a throne which could never be duplicated, it was thought. The tree was cut down, and the avalanche began.