Lews Therin newsflash

[Terez]

Robert Jordan never really made that explicit himself. What I think and what you think may be different and so we’ll just leave it. There are things about this in the book.

Surprisingly I agree with Terez, although I'm disappointed she never mentioned this part of Brandon's words.

I believe I addressed it specifically on Theoryland. He said he doesn't intend to settle the matter...aside from what is in the books.

 

As soon as he denied having been cautioned by Team Jordan, it occurred to me that it was probably Emma. (It's the only thing I can think of to explain his shift from being open about it to saying that RJ didn't want it revealed; we all know how much she likes to bitch when things don't go her way.) In any case, it's over now, whether or not she likes it.

 

In that chapter Rand himself says that he and LTT are the same person! ONLY HE WAS RAISED BETTER THIS TIME.

Another thing I wonder if RJ would have said. No biggie, but it seemed a little strange to me. Lews Therin didn't screw up because he wasn't raised right - he did the best he could, considering the circumstances. And he seemed happy enough with Ilyena, so I don't get that comparison either.

 

Also he told Cadsuane he was 400 years old and he said something like:

To show me respect you may call me Rand Sedai. I am, as far as I know, the only male Aes Sedai who was proper raised and never turned to the Shadow.

All true, but that line (and Rand's general treatment of Cadsuane) strikes me as the influence of Moridin. I don't think Rand even touched that on Dragonmount, though he did halt some things that were aggravating the situation. Anyway, I can't wait for Cadsuane vs Sorilea. That will rectify the situation, and Cadsuane will probably die as well, so that should make her haters happy.

[FarShainMael]

"I am, as far as I know, the only male Aes Sedai still alive who was properly raised but who never turned to the Shadow."

 

Does he mean he was 'properly' raised / brought-up as a child, or properly raised to Aes Sedai (as Eg was raised to Amyrlin)? When I first read that, I thought the latter, given the context - he was talking to Cadsuane about respect. But it could be either.

[XXX]

"I am, as far as I know, the only male Aes Sedai still alive who was properly raised but who never turned to the Shadow."

 

Does he mean he was 'properly' raised / brought-up as a child, or properly raised to Aes Sedai (as Eg was raised to Amyrlin)? When I first read that, I thought the latter, given the context - he was talking to Cadsuane about respect. But it could be either.

 

 

LTT was an aristocrat and for all his greatness was undoubtedly arrogant..a lot of the male forsaken were his generals who got put off with his attitude towards them. Perhaps if he handled them better they would have fought for the light and not the shadow.

[Wantanswers]

"I am, as far as I know, the only male Aes Sedai still alive who was properly raised but who never turned to the Shadow."

 

Does he mean he was 'properly' raised / brought-up as a child, or properly raised to Aes Sedai (as Eg was raised to Amyrlin)? When I first read that, I thought the latter, given the context - he was talking to Cadsuane about respect. But it could be either.

Rand was never raised to Aes Sedai. But Lews Therin was. He even was the First among Servants.

Rand sees his life, and that of LTT, as one.He was quite clear about that in his conversation with Min. He added the age of LTT (over 400 years) to his own age (about 20) and told Min he was almost 450 years old.

He also told Cadsuane that he was as old as any of the Forsaken.

 

According to the Tower Laws Egwene became Aes Sedai when she was raised to the Amerlyn Seat. But we have to realise those laws were created after the the breaking, so we can always wonder if she was properly raised according the customs/laws in the AoL.

We can also wonder if any of the women in the White Tower was raised properly. They became AS after swearing on the Oath Rod, but in the AoL that rod was used to bind criminal channelers. I even doubt if the test of the hundred waves was was used then and it was surely not used in the way they did with Nynaeve.

[Dream]

Look what it comes down to for me is I haven't seen a satisfactory answer for why Birgitte would say "she has no right" to the memories. Saying "well possibly BS phrased it wrong" doesn't remotely come close to cutting it.

Birgitte said she didn't have a right to them because never before did she ever have memories of a previous life while she was here in the flesh. She was not making any statement on the cosmology of the universe. She said she did not have a right to those memories. She DID NOT say no one has right to their past life memories.

 

Indeed, it has been the Wheel's intention to give Rand his LTT memories long before Rand was even born. Rand has every right to his memories.

[FarShainMael]

I don't think we're actually in disagreement here, except perhaps over the semantics of "person". If you take "person" to mean soul, then Rand and LTT are the same "person". If you take "person" to mean a specific incarnation of a soul, then Rand and LTT are two different "persons" who share the same soul.

 

I tend to think of "person" in the latter sense.

I might if not for the fact that sometimes people remember past lives (even if it's just in the afterlife).

 

I might if it wasn't for the Heroes of the Horn. Their presence alone tells me that the soul is pretty much the primary determining factor in how the person is shaped. We know that the only part of HotH that resides in TAR is the soul, and yet we don't see an absence of personality in Birgitte before she's ripped out or immediately after. It becomes pretty obvious that most of the important factors which help influence what a person develops into come from the soul. Rand and LTT might have slightly different personalities due to different upbringing, but at the end of the day they share too much in common to be called different people.

 

We see an absence of something in Birgitte after she is ripped out of T'A'R. What precisely is missing I don't know; but she is unable to remain alive without Elayne's bonding, although Nynaeve found nothing to Heal.

[Kahsm]

I don't think we're actually in disagreement here, except perhaps over the semantics of "person". If you take "person" to mean soul, then Rand and LTT are the same "person". If you take "person" to mean a specific incarnation of a soul, then Rand and LTT are two different "persons" who share the same soul.

 

I tend to think of "person" in the latter sense.

I might if not for the fact that sometimes people remember past lives (even if it's just in the afterlife).

 

I might if it wasn't for the Heroes of the Horn. Their presence alone tells me that the soul is pretty much the primary determining factor in how the person is shaped. We know that the only part of HotH that resides in TAR is the soul, and yet we don't see an absence of personality in Birgitte before she's ripped out or immediately after. It becomes pretty obvious that most of the important factors which help influence what a person develops into come from the soul. Rand and LTT might have slightly different personalities due to different upbringing, but at the end of the day they share too much in common to be called different people.

 

Or, they are simply defined in TAR by their last incarnation. Hence why Hawkwing refers to Rand as LTT. Last time Rand was in TAR he'd have been LTT. Except they have the memories of all their previous lives. Which gives further credence to the idea that when they're spun out the memories are still attached to the soul, just locked away... by some sort of barrier...