[Advanced/Experimental] Game of Thrones Mafia

[Smash]

  On 8/24/2011 at 1:41 PM, John McClane said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 12:34 PM, CTM said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 12:19 PM, John McClane said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 11:37 AM, CTM said:

i could also go vic... forgot to mention...

 

Do you see what I'm talking about with Smash?

Yeah, but I'm not convinced cult is killing.. It's possible it's an un declared survivor..

 

 

The a cult leader thing bothers me... makes me want to keep looking for shady since the get go players, rather then start killing potential converts... Smash is def in the latter group

 

I agree that Smash comes across as a converted player, same point I made to him about Verbal. Worst case for Verbal was he is a converted - so tracking him was a waste, it looks more like Smash trying to steer us off of Verb's trail than it does a sensible target for a tracker trying to find a potential backup cult converter.

 

Normally, I would say it DOES make sense to start lynching those we think could be converted in the off chance that there is not a second converter. However, I believe 100% that Slats converted at least 1 JN player - and JN players would have cried to have Slats replaced way before he was lynched IF Slats was the only converted. The fact that the CL went out quietly, makes me pretty damn confident that there is a 2nd converter out there.

 

 

I dont follow your logic on slats or a back up converter, dont you think a back up converter would be a bit too powerful ? Also just because you disagree with a track does not make it wrong and your thoughts correct . Do me a favor put up one of your lists Im curious to see where you stand on the remaining players in the game.

[Smash]

  On 8/24/2011 at 1:50 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 1:36 PM, John McClane said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 12:55 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far this game, Smash is the only person who has claimed a role and continues to provide results with it?

 

Does that not strike anybody else as strange?

 

Already pointed this out - that said, IF there is a Lannister bannerman with similar watcher/tracker abilities to balance Smash out on their team - I doubt that person is going to say anything to vouch for him.

 

So, out of 4 speculated Bannermen, and 4 days/nights worth of play, we think that only has a role and continuously gives results that don't really matter?

 

I was forced to reveal do you think anyone lannester wants to do the same at this point ? I would think it makes sense Kiv gave both familes the same abilities.

[John McClane]

  On 8/24/2011 at 1:52 PM, Smash said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 1:41 PM, John McClane said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 12:34 PM, CTM said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 12:19 PM, John McClane said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 11:37 AM, CTM said:

i could also go vic... forgot to mention...

 

Do you see what I'm talking about with Smash?

Yeah, but I'm not convinced cult is killing.. It's possible it's an un declared survivor..

 

 

The a cult leader thing bothers me... makes me want to keep looking for shady since the get go players, rather then start killing potential converts... Smash is def in the latter group

 

I agree that Smash comes across as a converted player, same point I made to him about Verbal. Worst case for Verbal was he is a converted - so tracking him was a waste, it looks more like Smash trying to steer us off of Verb's trail than it does a sensible target for a tracker trying to find a potential backup cult converter.

 

Normally, I would say it DOES make sense to start lynching those we think could be converted in the off chance that there is not a second converter. However, I believe 100% that Slats converted at least 1 JN player - and JN players would have cried to have Slats replaced way before he was lynched IF Slats was the only converted. The fact that the CL went out quietly, makes me pretty damn confident that there is a 2nd converter out there.

 

 

I dont follow your logic on slats or a back up converter, dont you think a back up converter would be a bit too powerful ? Also just because you disagree with a track does not make it wrong and your thoughts correct . Do me a favor put up one of your lists Im curious to see where you stand on the remaining players in the game.

 

Game started with:

 

- 2 families, both able to NK (from what I can tell) and both able to pay for votes, as well as a deputy for payouts.

- a decent amount of survivors, all capable of purchasing NKs, investigations, protections (NKs being the cheapest)

- cult started with a CL and what else?

 

The Cult is the common enemy. So, my "logic" is that it makes no sense to load a game like this up on the cult hunting side, and then give the CL no safety net in case the CL gets shot the first night.

 

Combine that with the fact that Slats got lynched with little to no real objection, it REEKED like a bunch of people were busing. I'd think with 3 factions versus the Cult, that we would have seen something, anything to prevent us lynching the only means to victory that hte cult has.

 

I'll post a list in a little bit... then you can make a crack about how I'm dumb and FOS everyone.

 

Also, I only shared my opinion on your tracking target because it doesn't seem informed by what we've learned in the game. Verbal breadcrumbed survivor, said he's still survivor, said he wanted money yesterday to buy kills -- if he bought kills yesterday, then he can't use them until the upcoming night -- so he was pretty much a lock to not move last night. Like I said, worst case scenario is that he's a converted survivor - which I think is the case - but its wasn't an informed choice considering that there very easily could be a 2nd converter out there.

[CTM]

  On 8/24/2011 at 1:50 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 1:36 PM, John McClane said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 12:55 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far this game, Smash is the only person who has claimed a role and continues to provide results with it?

 

Does that not strike anybody else as strange?

 

Already pointed this out - that said, IF there is a Lannister bannerman with similar watcher/tracker abilities to balance Smash out on their team - I doubt that person is going to say anything to vouch for him.

 

So, out of 4 speculated Bannermen, and 4 days/nights worth of play, we think that only has a role and continuously gives results that don't really matter?

If you're a stark, wouldn't YOU be able to verify smash?

[John McClane]

  On 8/24/2011 at 1:50 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 1:36 PM, John McClane said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 12:55 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far this game, Smash is the only person who has claimed a role and continues to provide results with it?

 

Does that not strike anybody else as strange?

 

Already pointed this out - that said, IF there is a Lannister bannerman with similar watcher/tracker abilities to balance Smash out on their team - I doubt that person is going to say anything to vouch for him.

 

So, out of 4 speculated Bannermen, and 4 days/nights worth of play, we think that only has a role and continuously gives results that don't really matter?

 

It would appear that way... btw you are pinging me too right now, you are coming across as playing "get behind the Ape" again, like Slats did. You, for all intents and purposes, revealed as a paymaster yesterday no? So you've made it clear you are claiming Stark house if nothing else, because you can talk to the paymaster.

 

Who did Stark house use their NK on?

[John McClane]

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:13 PM, CTM said:

If you're a stark, wouldn't YOU be able to verify smash?

 

This.

 

Something stinks... is it possible that Slats converted a Stark House member early, found out who was who, and converted a portion of the Stark House - then after Slats died, they killed BG because he was one of the unconverted Stark House members?

[CTM]

agree.. DPR is bothering me again

[DPR]

You guys need to slow down and think about this - and stop winging off with all kinds of thoeries that just muddy the water.

 

If anyone needs more proof of who I am, then you're too stupid to bother with.

 

We have a 16 player game right now. I'm guessing 2 to 3 Lannisters - 3 to 5 cult (and heavily leaning against a backup CL - that would just be too much. Also leaning against the idea of House conversions. If the cult got inside a house, it would tunr the game upside down, and leave too much up to chance - not a big Kivam/Doggin trait imo.)

 

We've got 3 claimed Rogues -

 

So that leaves us with:

 

2 to 3 Lannisters with no NK, and no gold.

3 to 5 cult

3 Rogues

& the Starks

 

I'm looking for ways that gold can help (and not fuel the, er, opposition.).

[Smash]

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:10 PM, John McClane said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 1:52 PM, Smash said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 1:41 PM, John McClane said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 12:34 PM, CTM said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 12:19 PM, John McClane said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 11:37 AM, CTM said:

i could also go vic... forgot to mention...

 

Do you see what I'm talking about with Smash?

Yeah, but I'm not convinced cult is killing.. It's possible it's an un declared survivor..

 

 

The a cult leader thing bothers me... makes me want to keep looking for shady since the get go players, rather then start killing potential converts... Smash is def in the latter group

 

I agree that Smash comes across as a converted player, same point I made to him about Verbal. Worst case for Verbal was he is a converted - so tracking him was a waste, it looks more like Smash trying to steer us off of Verb's trail than it does a sensible target for a tracker trying to find a potential backup cult converter.

 

Normally, I would say it DOES make sense to start lynching those we think could be converted in the off chance that there is not a second converter. However, I believe 100% that Slats converted at least 1 JN player - and JN players would have cried to have Slats replaced way before he was lynched IF Slats was the only converted. The fact that the CL went out quietly, makes me pretty damn confident that there is a 2nd converter out there.

 

 

I dont follow your logic on slats or a back up converter, dont you think a back up converter would be a bit too powerful ? Also just because you disagree with a track does not make it wrong and your thoughts correct . Do me a favor put up one of your lists Im curious to see where you stand on the remaining players in the game.

 

Game started with:

 

- 2 families, both able to NK (from what I can tell) and both able to pay for votes, as well as a deputy for payouts.

- a decent amount of survivors, all capable of purchasing NKs, investigations, protections (NKs being the cheapest)

- cult started with a CL and what else?

 

The Cult is the common enemy. So, my "logic" is that it makes no sense to load a game like this up on the cult hunting side, and then give the CL no safety net in case the CL gets shot the first night.

 

Combine that with the fact that Slats got lynched with little to no real objection, it REEKED like a bunch of people were busing. I'd think with 3 factions versus the Cult, that we would have seen something, anything to prevent us lynching the only means to victory that hte cult has.

 

I'll post a list in a little bit... then you can make a crack about how I'm dumb and FOS everyone.

 

Also, I only shared my opinion on your tracking target because it doesn't seem informed by what we've learned in the game. Verbal breadcrumbed survivor, said he's still survivor, said he wanted money yesterday to buy kills -- if he bought kills yesterday, then he can't use them until the upcoming night -- so he was pretty much a lock to not move last night. Like I said, worst case scenario is that he's a converted survivor - which I think is the case - but its wasn't an informed choice considering that there very easily could be a 2nd converter out there.

 

It makes plenty of sense to only make one CL to start the game. The odds on lynching or killing the CL as early as day one or even two are pretty slim. Cults are always difficult to deal with since they get to add members while others lose them. In your mind there is another converter, in my mind there is not. They are sitting ducks for us to find and I think they are powerless at this point other than their numbers which are probably 3. Also this game has a lot more mechanics than just the cult involved so if the cult was luckly killed on day one the game would still move on without them just fine. To be honest my role is not worth a crap at this point.

 

Vote Verbal

[Smash]

vote verbal

[John McClane]

My list, people I'd vote are in red:

 

1) Lily/Sakea - i think she started as a survivor, concerned Slats would have converted her - has stated that she "loves" Stark - also made subtle insinuation that Slats was Stark in her lists

3) Vic - made a mid-train case/vote on Slats, i hate how quiet he's playing, but can't put my finger on any one scummy thing - if all else fails clean players usually = scum

4) Verbal - claiming to be an indie survivor still, negotiating with DPR for gold bribes to make NKs (even though bribes are for votes), a couple huge pings - one being him asking for mass reveal immediately after Slats death

5) Wombat - stole from him, but got nothing - seems to be playing on the level, cannot pinpoint any one scummy thing - clean player alert!

6) Optimus Primate - me

7) CTM - started as a survivor, pushed a bigtime bs case on me after I came at Mynd, Dude, Vic, Sharrow and Slats in night phase

9) 80 - says he is NOT a lannister bannerman, nailed Slats - part of 2 CL gambit?

11) Nae/Krakala - not enough game content to judge

12) Smash - uncountered stark banner, tracker - tracking targets have all been useless, seemed to lie about not getting a result on Crusher because Crusher was killed, why track Crusher and Verbal? doesn't seem interested in hunting CL, only in OMGUS casing me

15) Far Dareis Mai - for someone that was very clearly a survivor early, and helped bury Jack on D1 has become very quiet since

18) Adella - disappeared from the game, wtf inactives

19) Myndrunner - at this point, i'm thinking he is in fact a survivor and just playing the details about as good as jack

20) Hybrid - survivor, still seems to be pointing out the same scumminess I see

22) Barmacral - playing very under the radar, has made a statement or two that's made me scratch my head - not enough to build on

23) DPR - hinted that he is stark paymaster, or at least able to communicate with stark paymaster - which should mean he can confirm Smash, and he hasn't - right now he's my best bet for a converted House member, have seen some weird distancing from Slats, Mynd, and he could be playing "get behind the Ape" nudging me towards locking onto people

24) the dude - still one of my best reads for cult

 

We are on D4. CL died on D3, meaning he only converted on N1 and N2, lets assume both were successful attempts. We should be looking for ~4 cult members, assuming they started with 2-3 including CL.

[John McClane]

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:41 PM, Smash said:

 

It makes plenty of sense to only make one CL to start the game. The odds on lynching or killing the CL as early as day one or even two are pretty slim. Cults are always difficult to deal with since they get to add members while others lose them. In your mind there is another converter, in my mind there is not. They are sitting ducks for us to find and I think they are powerless at this point other than their numbers which are probably 3. Also this game has a lot more mechanics than just the cult involved so if the cult was luckly killed on day one the game would still move on without them just fine. To be honest my role is not worth a crap at this point.

 

Vote Verbal

 

 

Here's the thing - you might be right, you might not be - if you are right then yes, your role is worthless, if you are wrong, then your role could be huge for us. It makes ZERO sense to not continue using your role as though your hunting for a converter, just in case. See what I'm saying?

[Smash]

  On 8/24/2011 at 1:37 PM, John McClane said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 1:08 PM, Smash said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 12:16 PM, John McClane said:

Smash, why would you have tracked verbal? It obvious if he is anything, it is a convert or survivor... Again you show no sign of looking for a potential converter, in this case original cult and backup. Puzzled by this choice.

 

Again we have shots fired at Starks, but the stark watcher alive? Again a moot result. Logically would cult leave smash alive for the wifom? Or would they just convert him and use him to mislead us?

 

Vic, dude, verb, or smash... Okay with a vote on any of them. Sakea too.

 

For now Vote Verb

 

I asked 2 times for suggestions on possible Tracks not one person answered. If your so concerned about who I track why not at least suggest something ?

 

Why suggest you track someone, when I don't believe you?

 

Also if you dont belive me dont attack my choice just vote for me :) wouldnt that make more sense ?

 

We have some votes on verb and since I tracked him and he did nothing I think the odds point to the possibility he is cult.

[Barmacral]

As much as I agree with a Verbal lynch (I strongly dislike his gold buying nk offer) I think The Dude is the best way to go here. He's an unknown who brought up the possibility of multiple cult as though we'd been talking about it all game, and his only cover for it was that there was maybe possibly some remote chance that somebody mentioned it earlier in the game that he can't be bothered to dig through the thread to find.

 

Plus he did get really defensive really fast over him showing up late for the lynches. If there is a backup cult leader, he's a good shot for it IMO.

[Hybrid]

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:39 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Also leaning against the idea of House conversions. If the cult got inside a house, it would tunr the game upside down, and leave too much up to chance - not a big Kivam/Doggin trait imo.)

 

What happened to your worry that the cult had infiltrated House Stark?

[Hybrid]

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:46 PM, Smash said:

We have some votes on verb and since I tracked him and he did nothing I think the odds point to the possibility he is cult.

 

What? Why?

[Smash]

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:46 PM, John McClane said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:41 PM, Smash said:

 

It makes plenty of sense to only make one CL to start the game. The odds on lynching or killing the CL as early as day one or even two are pretty slim. Cults are always difficult to deal with since they get to add members while others lose them. In your mind there is another converter, in my mind there is not. They are sitting ducks for us to find and I think they are powerless at this point other than their numbers which are probably 3. Also this game has a lot more mechanics than just the cult involved so if the cult was luckly killed on day one the game would still move on without them just fine. To be honest my role is not worth a crap at this point.

 

Vote Verbal

 

 

Here's the thing - you might be right, you might not be - if you are right then yes, your role is worthless, if you are wrong, then your role could be huge for us. It makes ZERO sense to not continue using your role as though your hunting for a converter, just in case. See what I'm saying?

 

This is why I feel none of your previous explanation makes any sense at all. If you feel my role is so important based on your feelings of a possible 2nd converter then why not offer some suggestions yesterday when I asked twice ? Your basicly contradicting what you say with your actions. Right ?

[John McClane]

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:39 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

You guys need to slow down and think about this - and stop winging off with all kinds of thoeries that just muddy the water.

 

If anyone needs more proof of who I am, then you're too stupid to bother with.

 

We have a 16 player game right now. I'm guessing 2 to 3 Lannisters - 3 to 5 cult (and heavily leaning against a backup CL - that would just be too much. Also leaning against the idea of House conversions. If the cult got inside a house, it would tunr the game upside down, and leave too much up to chance - not a big Kivam/Doggin trait imo.)

 

We've got 3 claimed Rogues -

 

So that leaves us with:

 

2 to 3 Lannisters with no NK, and no gold.

3 to 5 cult

3 Rogues

& the Starks

 

I'm looking for ways that gold can help (and not fuel the, er, opposition.).

 

Assuming you are the Paymaster, then you should know who your house used its NK on. Answer my question.

 

Also, Red told us that House members know the names of their bannerman characters and how many there are. So you shouldn't be guessing here... you have a role that should be able to provide clarity, and you are saying we are muddying things? Really?

[Smash]

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:48 PM, Hybrid said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:46 PM, Smash said:

We have some votes on verb and since I tracked him and he did nothing I think the odds point to the possibility he is cult.

 

What? Why?

 

Just a gut feeling . If he was survivor would he have not tried to steal something ? That rules our survivor IMO so what are the other options ? Hes stark with no role or powers. Not that bad a bet to run him up a bit.

 

if your wondering if i can see people stealing, I can, since on day 1 CTM claimed he attempted to steal from the APE and that Night I got the message he visited the APE.

[John McClane]

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:49 PM, Smash said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:46 PM, John McClane said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:41 PM, Smash said:

 

It makes plenty of sense to only make one CL to start the game. The odds on lynching or killing the CL as early as day one or even two are pretty slim. Cults are always difficult to deal with since they get to add members while others lose them. In your mind there is another converter, in my mind there is not. They are sitting ducks for us to find and I think they are powerless at this point other than their numbers which are probably 3. Also this game has a lot more mechanics than just the cult involved so if the cult was luckly killed on day one the game would still move on without them just fine. To be honest my role is not worth a crap at this point.

 

Vote Verbal

 

 

Here's the thing - you might be right, you might not be - if you are right then yes, your role is worthless, if you are wrong, then your role could be huge for us. It makes ZERO sense to not continue using your role as though your hunting for a converter, just in case. See what I'm saying?

 

This is why I feel none of your previous explanation makes any sense at all. If you feel my role is so important based on your feelings of a possible 2nd converter then why not offer some suggestions yesterday when I asked twice ? Your basicly contradicting what you say with your actions. Right ?

 

Not really. I said I don't trust you. So, I just didn't suggest anyone... but I also know I could be wrong about you, and you could be wrong about 2nd CL, so you should treat your role like it matters.

[John McClane]

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:54 PM, Smash said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:48 PM, Hybrid said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:46 PM, Smash said:

We have some votes on verb and since I tracked him and he did nothing I think the odds point to the possibility he is cult.

 

What? Why?

 

Just a gut feeling . If he was survivor would he have not tried to steal something ? That rules our survivor IMO so what are the other options ? Hes stark with no role or powers. Not that bad a bet to run him up a bit.

 

if your wondering if i can see people stealing, I can, since on day 1 CTM claimed he attempted to steal from the APE and that Night I got the message he visited the APE.

 

 

I've already explained this when you made a similar assumption on Mynd.

 

Survivors steal during the DAY. Cult converts during the NIGHT.

 

If Verbal is a survivor, his night movements would have been a NK if he had one to use.

[DPR]

If Smash was lying about his role - he's be dead. Pull your head out of your ass.

[Vicious89x]

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:44 PM, John McClane said:

My list, people I'd vote are in red:

 

1) Lily/Sakea - i think she started as a survivor, concerned Slats would have converted her - has stated that she "loves" Stark - also made subtle insinuation that Slats was Stark in her lists

3) Vic - made a mid-train case/vote on Slats, i hate how quiet he's playing, but can't put my finger on any one scummy thing - if all else fails clean players usually = scum

4) Verbal - claiming to be an indie survivor still, negotiating with DPR for gold bribes to make NKs (even though bribes are for votes), a couple huge pings - one being him asking for mass reveal immediately after Slats death

5) Wombat - stole from him, but got nothing - seems to be playing on the level, cannot pinpoint any one scummy thing - clean player alert!

6) Optimus Primate - me

7) CTM - started as a survivor, pushed a bigtime bs case on me after I came at Mynd, Dude, Vic, Sharrow and Slats in night phase

9) 80 - says he is NOT a lannister bannerman, nailed Slats - part of 2 CL gambit?

11) Nae/Krakala - not enough game content to judge

12) Smash - uncountered stark banner, tracker - tracking targets have all been useless, seemed to lie about not getting a result on Crusher because Crusher was killed, why track Crusher and Verbal? doesn't seem interested in hunting CL, only in OMGUS casing me

15) Far Dareis Mai - for someone that was very clearly a survivor early, and helped bury Jack on D1 has become very quiet since

18) Adella - disappeared from the game, wtf inactives

19) Myndrunner - at this point, i'm thinking he is in fact a survivor and just playing the details about as good as jack

20) Hybrid - survivor, still seems to be pointing out the same scumminess I see

22) Barmacral - playing very under the radar, has made a statement or two that's made me scratch my head - not enough to build on

23) DPR - hinted that he is stark paymaster, or at least able to communicate with stark paymaster - which should mean he can confirm Smash, and he hasn't - right now he's my best bet for a converted House member, have seen some weird distancing from Slats, Mynd, and he could be playing "get behind the Ape" nudging me towards locking onto people

24) the dude - still one of my best reads for cult

 

We are on D4. CL died on D3, meaning he only converted on N1 and N2, lets assume both were successful attempts. We should be looking for ~4 cult members, assuming they started with 2-3 including CL.

 

I just can't win with you can I?

[DPR]

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:48 PM, Hybrid said:

  On 8/24/2011 at 2:39 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Also leaning against the idea of House conversions. If the cult got inside a house, it would tunr the game upside down, and leave too much up to chance - not a big Kivam/Doggin trait imo.)

 

What happened to your worry that the cult had infiltrated House Stark?

 

I thought about it in-depth and had a long heart-to-heart with the team. In the end, we all agreed that it would just not play out in the game mechanics, and that all of the choices we've made as individuals make sense. We have also been watchgin each other very closely, and willing to be watched.

 

My intial concern was over the gold really, and I still think it needs to be pumped into the game, I just have a few more things to work out in my head.

 

 

 

[Hybrid]

  On 8/17/2011 at 11:20 PM, WWWwombat said:

My vote stands still as a Mountain. Sorry, Red.

 

Bumping this b/c only FDM and Verbal seemed to notice it at the time. Starks may want to shoot this monster tonight.