would you feel the same if genders were reversed?

[Morsker]

I'm just done reading the thread now. :) It's important to keep in mind that the female characters aren't real women; they're artistic creations. Negative sentiment towards them needn't reveal bias on the part of the reader. It may be the reader reacting to bias on the part of the author. RJ wanted a story where women and men need each other, but he seemed nervous about ever making a woman need "rescuing", so incidences of women needing men are downplayed, whereas incidences of men needing "guidance" are prominent. I reader who disdains this theme might put some of the blame on the female characters most involved in it.

 

If these were real people, Egwene would be a great leader. Cadsuane would be a useful adviser, but unsuited for leadership due to being a bully and a bigot. But as characters, they simply express certain things. Egwene shows us that women are capable of perfection in all things, except very occasionally needing a man as a bodyguard. (Contrast all the men, especially Rand, that will destroy themselves or others if not constantly supervised by women. This is obnoxious.) And Cadsuane is an expression of the most revolting idea in the series: that bullying is the best way to teach young people many things, that cruelty is a form of strength, and that we should respect bullies. Cadsuane isn't even about gender. Her theme is much darker, but WoT is so corrupt thematically that it deifies her.

 

Now, reverse the genders on Egwene and Cadsuane. Egwene becomes worse, because we're going to have to convert the part about only needing the opposite sex as bodyguards. A male Egewene might concede that women are useful for raising children, but nothing else. (Or if not that, something nearly as bad.) Even as a capable leader, he'd be hard to admire. A male Cadsuane is no worse, because it's frankly not possible to be worse than the female Cadsuane. But a male Cadsuane is easier to hate, because he can't hide behind his gender and pretend to be "stern"; he's obviously a bully.

[HeheIThinkIWasBanned]

I dont think gender has a massive influence on my character likes/dislikes.

 

Mat = Birgette in my eyes. They both kick ass

 

Rand = Egwene in my eyes. They both exasperate me but ultimately rock my socks. Throwing a beat down when required and are unapologetically more awesome than their followers - and they know it

 

Perrin=Gawyn and both lack spines. Irredeemable in my eyes, but not without their perks - Gawyn's assassin beat down and Perrin's Hammer forging

 

Nynaeve + Cadsuane are both worthy of respect whether they're male or female because as belligerent and uncharismatic as they may be - there is no denying results. But CHRIST Nynaeve annoys me hahaha, it seems like she needs a nanny to tell her what to do at all times

 

Moiraine=Tam - Semi mythical, elusive figures, highly skilled but are building blocks for other characters

[Mr Ares]

I'm just done reading the thread now. :) It's important to keep in mind that the female characters aren't real women; they're artistic creations. Negative sentiment towards them needn't reveal bias on the part of the reader. It may be the reader reacting to bias on the part of the author. RJ wanted a story where women and men need each other, but he seemed nervous about ever making a woman need "rescuing", so incidences of women needing men are downplayed, whereas incidences of men needing "guidance" are prominent. I reader who disdains this theme might put some of the blame on the female characters most involved in it.

In what way would you say Mat's rescue of Moiraine was downplayed? Or Perrin's rescue of Faile? Or Mat's rescue of Elayne, Egwene and Nynaeve in the Stone of Tear? Those are just off the top of my head, there might well be others. Suffice it to say, I don't really think that RJ was nervous about making women need rescuing.

 

If these were real people, Egwene would be a great leader. Cadsuane would be a useful adviser, but unsuited for leadership due to being a bully and a bigot. But as characters, they simply express certain things. Egwene shows us that women are capable of perfection in all things, except very occasionally needing a man as a bodyguard. (Contrast all the men, especially Rand, that will destroy themselves or others if not constantly supervised by women. This is obnoxious.) And Cadsuane is an expression of the most revolting idea in the series: that bullying is the best way to teach young people many things, that cruelty is a form of strength, and that we should respect bullies. Cadsuane isn't even about gender. Her theme is much darker, but WoT is so corrupt thematically that it deifies her.

 

Now, reverse the genders on Egwene and Cadsuane. Egwene becomes worse, because we're going to have to convert the part about only needing the opposite sex as bodyguards. A male Egewene might concede that women are useful for raising children, but nothing else. (Or if not that, something nearly as bad.) Even as a capable leader, he'd be hard to admire. A male Cadsuane is no worse, because it's frankly not possible to be worse than the female Cadsuane. But a male Cadsuane is easier to hate, because he can't hide behind his gender and pretend to be "stern"; he's obviously a bully.

Let's see, a male Cadsuane has a reputation for tracking down and stilling women who can channel, and those women tending to live longer than those taken by others. He would respect people for their abilities, ignoring the usual AS prejudice against non-AS. He would restrict his so called bullying to the most powerful woman in the world, as opposed to simply treating those weaker than him with contempt. Further, he would admit that he is only treating female Rand in the way he is because that's the only way he sees of getting through to her, given she increasingly walls herself away. He also has some success with his methods. A male Cadsuane would put the desires of Rand and the fate of the world before the will of the Tower. Wow. What a monster. Clearly you can get no worse than that.

[WWWwombat]

I like almost all of the characters. Rand definitely frustrates me a lot. I never got the Egwene hate.

[David Selig]

RJ wanted a story where women and men need each other, but he seemed nervous about ever making a woman need "rescuing"

Are you being sarcastic? This was RJ's favourite plot device by far. He overused to a ridiculous degree. How can you say he was nervous to use it?