Egwene should be doing more in the borderlands.

[so´jhin]

Rand after his awakening in Dragonmount went beyond even LTT's capabilities.

 

32 channelers (25 Aes Sedai, 12 Asha'man) just managed to destroy an army of only 100,000 Trollocs and it was a close call, according to Logain (KoD).

 

These 32 channelers at that time included: Rand (with LTT in control), Logain (almost Rand's strength, thus level of Aginor), Alivia (Lanfear or nearly her strength, and likely knows more attacks weaves than anyone ever), Nyaneve with angreal (thus at least stronger than Lanfear, if not much stronger), Cadsuane with angreal (possibly at Lanfear strength level) etc...

 

Rand stood against an army of 500,000, if not 1 million (Ituralde thought nothing would stop it, short of the Seanchan), and defeated it.

 

Seanchan forces would be close to 1 million I would think.

 

You do have quite an imagination don't you Entreri?

 

One battle was a surprise attack that they barely caught in time. Rand's crew were stuck in a farmhouse, hard pressed to see what they were fighting in the dead of night until the Shadowspawn were nearly upon them. As impressive as it was in Maradon Rand had his enemies clearly arrayed in front of him on a field of battle and nicely clumped together when he attacked.

 

Most importantly stop making up numbers. You can not put an actual amount on either battle and in ToM it says he killed "Tens of thousands of dead trollocs smoldering" not a million, not a half million, not a hundred thousand. A portion of the original force escaped and ran away as trollocs are prone to do, the second things start looking bad. "Entire Legions of them turned and fled, stumbling up the hillside and over one another, fleeing back toward the Blight." The feat was impressive enough without the need for embellishment.

 

 

Rand used more than fire. Only a fraction of the trollocs died by fire. "Tens of thousands of dead trollocs smoldering"

[plague fiend]

During the Aiel War when Tamra Ospenya was the Amyrlin seat she ordered all Aes Sedai from the tower and sent them to go about healing of all the nations damaged by the Aiel. It was stated by Moiraine in New Spring that the only 2 Aes Sedai left in the tower were Tamra and her keeper.

 

Now Egwene is Amyrlin the last battle is upon the world, there are huge battles going on between the blight and the borderlanders and what is Egwene doing? Spending the majority of her time worrying about Gawyn. (sp) If you think what Rand done in Maradon, im sure a circle of 13 Aes Sedai with a ser angreal could achieve the same. Rand done the equivalent of 50,000+ men in the space of roughly an hour, imagine if just 4 circles of 13 travelled to each of the borders to help in the fighting the blight would be pushed back in no time. say it even takes 2 days to recover theres a month to the Fields of merrilor meeting and egwene still hasnt done anything (i know its only 1 day away at the end of TOM)

 

Egwene is one of my favourite characters upto TGS but then after all the talk of her being such an amazing Amyrlin she hasnt done anything that anyone else could have done (blah blah recitfied the ajahs all she did was tell them to talk to each other in public). Also the other thing that annoyed me is in the battle in TAR when perrin arrives, Egwene is in a duel with 2 black sisters when perrin arrives and she just asks where is Rand? why would she need to know where Rand is at that point in time she has already organised to meet him in a few days of that point why would she care. its like Brandon had run out of dialogue for her to talk to perrin about (she hasnt even seen him since what TSR?)

 

END rant. Sorry but egwene was my favourite character and then TOM happened where she is blabbering about Gawyn when the last battle is happening and her sisters are doing nothing in the tower.

 

I have had my issues with Egwene in some of the books, but usually in the character development and it's the lack of continuity within the story regarding her actions and thoughts. I do like Egwene overall and hope her character gets straightened out with regards to the above mentioned things. You know almost nothing of Tamra and you make a comment like that. How long was she Amyrlin before she made that decision? What else did she do? We know Egwene situation and what she has to overcome to be recognized as Amyrlin and to maintain that status. I agree that sometimes it is like reading about a totally different character at certain parts of the books. We'll just say that Tamra never had to deal with the Tower fractured and divided, not to mention the Last Battle.

[Kahsm]

During the Aiel War when Tamra Ospenya was the Amyrlin seat she ordered all Aes Sedai from the tower and sent them to go about healing of all the nations damaged by the Aiel. It was stated by Moiraine in New Spring that the only 2 Aes Sedai left in the tower were Tamra and her keeper.

 

Now Egwene is Amyrlin the last battle is upon the world, there are huge battles going on between the blight and the borderlanders and what is Egwene doing? Spending the majority of her time worrying about Gawyn. (sp) If you think what Rand done in Maradon, im sure a circle of 13 Aes Sedai with a ser angreal could achieve the same. Rand done the equivalent of 50,000+ men in the space of roughly an hour, imagine if just 4 circles of 13 travelled to each of the borders to help in the fighting the blight would be pushed back in no time. say it even takes 2 days to recover theres a month to the Fields of merrilor meeting and egwene still hasnt done anything (i know its only 1 day away at the end of TOM)

 

Egwene is one of my favourite characters upto TGS but then after all the talk of her being such an amazing Amyrlin she hasnt done anything that anyone else could have done (blah blah recitfied the ajahs all she did was tell them to talk to each other in public). Also the other thing that annoyed me is in the battle in TAR when perrin arrives, Egwene is in a duel with 2 black sisters when perrin arrives and she just asks where is Rand? why would she need to know where Rand is at that point in time she has already organised to meet him in a few days of that point why would she care. its like Brandon had run out of dialogue for her to talk to perrin about (she hasnt even seen him since what TSR?)

 

END rant. Sorry but egwene was my favourite character and then TOM happened where she is blabbering about Gawyn when the last battle is happening and her sisters are doing nothing in the tower.

 

I have had my issues with Egwene in some of the books, but usually in the character development and it's the lack of continuity within the story regarding her actions and thoughts. I do like Egwene overall and hope her character gets straightened out with regards to the above mentioned things. You know almost nothing of Tamra and you make a comment like that. How long was she Amyrlin before she made that decision? What else did she do? We know Egwene situation and what she has to overcome to be recognized as Amyrlin and to maintain that status. I agree that sometimes it is like reading about a totally different character at certain parts of the books. We'll just say that Tamra never had to deal with the Tower fractured and divided, not to mention the Last Battle.

 

Wow, someone reasonable. A rare talent indeed.

[Suttree]

Rand after his awakening in Dragonmount went beyond even LTT's capabilities.

 

32 channelers (25 Aes Sedai, 12 Asha'man) just managed to destroy an army of only 100,000 Trollocs and it was a close call, according to Logain (KoD).

 

These 32 channelers at that time included: Rand (with LTT in control), Logain (almost Rand's strength, thus level of Aginor), Alivia (Lanfear or nearly her strength, and likely knows more attacks weaves than anyone ever), Nyaneve with angreal (thus at least stronger than Lanfear, if not much stronger), Cadsuane with angreal (possibly at Lanfear strength level) etc...

 

Rand stood against an army of 500,000, if not 1 million (Ituralde thought nothing would stop it, short of the Seanchan), and defeated it.

 

Seanchan forces would be close to 1 million I would think.

 

You do have quite an imagination don't you Entreri?

 

One battle was a surprise attack that they barely caught in time. Rand's crew were stuck in a farmhouse, hard pressed to see what they were fighting in the dead of night until the Shadowspawn were nearly upon them. As impressive as it was in Maradon Rand had his enemies clearly arrayed in front of him on a field of battle and nicely clumped together when he attacked.

 

Most importantly stop making up numbers. You can not put an actual amount on either battle and in ToM it says he killed "Tens of thousands of dead trollocs smoldering" not a million, not a half million, not a hundred thousand. A portion of the original force escaped and ran away as trollocs are prone to do, the second things start looking bad. "Entire Legions of them turned and fled, stumbling up the hillside and over one another, fleeing back toward the Blight." The feat was impressive enough without the need for embellishment.

 

 

Rand used more than fire. Only a fraction of the trollocs died by fire. "Tens of thousands of dead trollocs smoldering"

 

That is the description we get of what the dead look like when Rand is done. If you have a quote showing he killed a larger number please provide it. Lightning and the like would cause a similar effect. The point remains, that is the only number we are given on that battle. Tens of thousands died, and legions ran...

[so´jhin]

Rand after his awakening in Dragonmount went beyond even LTT's capabilities.

 

32 channelers (25 Aes Sedai, 12 Asha'man) just managed to destroy an army of only 100,000 Trollocs and it was a close call, according to Logain (KoD).

 

These 32 channelers at that time included: Rand (with LTT in control), Logain (almost Rand's strength, thus level of Aginor), Alivia (Lanfear or nearly her strength, and likely knows more attacks weaves than anyone ever), Nyaneve with angreal (thus at least stronger than Lanfear, if not much stronger), Cadsuane with angreal (possibly at Lanfear strength level) etc...

 

Rand stood against an army of 500,000, if not 1 million (Ituralde thought nothing would stop it, short of the Seanchan), and defeated it.

 

Seanchan forces would be close to 1 million I would think.

 

You do have quite an imagination don't you Entreri?

 

One battle was a surprise attack that they barely caught in time. Rand's crew were stuck in a farmhouse, hard pressed to see what they were fighting in the dead of night until the Shadowspawn were nearly upon them. As impressive as it was in Maradon Rand had his enemies clearly arrayed in front of him on a field of battle and nicely clumped together when he attacked.

 

Most importantly stop making up numbers. You can not put an actual amount on either battle and in ToM it says he killed "Tens of thousands of dead trollocs smoldering" not a million, not a half million, not a hundred thousand. A portion of the original force escaped and ran away as trollocs are prone to do, the second things start looking bad. "Entire Legions of them turned and fled, stumbling up the hillside and over one another, fleeing back toward the Blight." The feat was impressive enough without the need for embellishment.

 

 

Rand used more than fire. Only a fraction of the trollocs died by fire. "Tens of thousands of dead trollocs smoldering"

 

That is the description we get of what the dead look like when Rand is done. If you have a quote showing he killed a larger number please provide it. Lightning and the like would cause a similar effect. The point remains, that is the only number we are given on that battle. Tens of thousands died, and legions ran...

 

Waterspouts, rained down, deathgates.

 

and do you think Saldea , Arad Doman, or Anddor Cant handle tens of thounds of trollocs?

the force that Rand faced was much more larger than the one ituralde have to face. Then are you saying that Ituralde only face what?ten thousands? five thounsands?

And tens of thousands is no the only number.

"he was like an entire army of channelers. Thousands of shadowspawn died." Do you think he only faced a couple a thusands then? ituralde has faced an army with 200.000 seachan with damane and he wasnt so impressed.

[NitroS]

During the Aiel War when Tamra Ospenya was the Amyrlin seat she ordered all Aes Sedai from the tower and sent them to go about healing of all the nations damaged by the Aiel. It was stated by Moiraine in New Spring that the only 2 Aes Sedai left in the tower were Tamra and her keeper.

 

Now Egwene is Amyrlin the last battle is upon the world, there are huge battles going on between the blight and the borderlanders and what is Egwene doing? Spending the majority of her time worrying about Gawyn. (sp) If you think what Rand done in Maradon, im sure a circle of 13 Aes Sedai with a ser angreal could achieve the same. Rand done the equivalent of 50,000+ men in the space of roughly an hour, imagine if just 4 circles of 13 travelled to each of the borders to help in the fighting the blight would be pushed back in no time. say it even takes 2 days to recover theres a month to the Fields of merrilor meeting and egwene still hasnt done anything (i know its only 1 day away at the end of TOM)

 

Egwene is one of my favourite characters upto TGS but then after all the talk of her being such an amazing Amyrlin she hasnt done anything that anyone else could have done (blah blah recitfied the ajahs all she did was tell them to talk to each other in public). Also the other thing that annoyed me is in the battle in TAR when perrin arrives, Egwene is in a duel with 2 black sisters when perrin arrives and she just asks where is Rand? why would she need to know where Rand is at that point in time she has already organised to meet him in a few days of that point why would she care. its like Brandon had run out of dialogue for her to talk to perrin about (she hasnt even seen him since what TSR?)

 

END rant. Sorry but egwene was my favourite character and then TOM happened where she is blabbering about Gawyn when the last battle is happening and her sisters are doing nothing in the tower.

 

I have had my issues with Egwene in some of the books, but usually in the character development and it's the lack of continuity within the story regarding her actions and thoughts. I do like Egwene overall and hope her character gets straightened out with regards to the above mentioned things. You know almost nothing of Tamra and you make a comment like that. How long was she Amyrlin before she made that decision? What else did she do? We know Egwene situation and what she has to overcome to be recognized as Amyrlin and to maintain that status. I agree that sometimes it is like reading about a totally different character at certain parts of the books. We'll just say that Tamra never had to deal with the Tower fractured and divided, not to mention the Last Battle.

 

We know more about Tamra's time as Amyrlin then Egwene. (you cant count salidar amyrlin as if you made a congress of people and then just announced someone president, it does not make them president so egwene is only officially amyrlin as of TOM and she spent what 1 month as Amyrlin, where as im pretty sure the overall time length of tamra was greater then egwene's so far) Tamra had to deal with the finding of the dragon reborn and the Aiel War which is more then egwene has handled, egwene has done what as amyrlin? she ordered the death of 3 dark friends and was only done because of Verin, she did take down a forsaken but that wasnt due to her amyrlin powers she would have done that as a novice, Amyrlin is about leading and her leading decisions and commanding hasnt done any action on the wars and the tower still have fighting amongst the aes sedai and meetings being held without her. (remember its only 1 month into her term as amyrlin so i dont see how people constantly state she is the best amyrlin they have ever had.)

 

 

 

 

As for the circle of 13 Aes Sedai thing: The problem is Rand is an agile channeler. And the circle strength MAY add a few extra flows to the Aes Sedai who controls the circle, but they aren't going to get anywhere near Rand's agility, even if the overall power is equal. Maybe Egwene could lead it and get close to Rand in a a full circle of strong Aes Sedai where she's not doped up on forkroot *lights the fuse*

Wait are you really saying that a circle of the white towers top 13 aes sedai with there strongest sar angreal can only match Rand in power strength? When Lews Therin states he would have trouble with more then 6. People are over setimating Rands power (not skill as a weaver) he is the strongest but the difference isnt that much between Alivia, nyneave, who are shown to be stronger then some forsaken. etc.

 

"During the Aiel War when Tamra Ospenya was the Amyrlin seat she ordered all Aes Sedai from the tower and sent them to go about healing of all the nations damaged by the Aiel. It was stated by Moiraine in New Spring that the only 2 Aes Sedai left in the tower were Tamra and her keeper."

 

Found my copy of New Spring so we can clear that up:

 

It was on the third day of the Battle of the Shining Walls, as noted by Moiraine:

 

"Tamra & Gitara were the only two Aes Sedai actually in the Tower at that moment, unless some had returned in the night. There had been talk of injured soldiers in such numbers that all sisters with the smallest ability in Healing were needed, but no one had said straight out that that was where they were going"

 

It contradicts the notion that the AS were sent to go about healing all the nations...In fact they were out in, more than likely, a less than 20 mile radius, healing the wounded in the armies of the Grand Alliance...All within, as witnessed in the amount of time it later takes Siuan & Moiraine to journey to various encampments, a day, if not less than a days travel.

 

Tamra sent those Aes Sedai out to heal those injured in the Battle of the Shining Walls, right on the doorstep of the Tower...It's a real, real far cry from saying she sent them all out to heal nations in the Aiel War - And, it's also concretely stated the Aes Sedai didn't involve themselves in said Battle, until the third day, also the last day of noted Battle.

 

After such time, we see the Tower occupied by numerous Aes Sedai, in chapters that directly follow, which corroborates that those Aes Sedai weren't even more than a stones throw away from home, so to speak - within a day's travel by horse.

 

 

I bring all of this up because you're basing your critique of Egwene on the supposition that Tamra ordered the Aes Sedai out of the Tower into the world to heal the nations during the whole of the Aiel War. In truth, they didn't venture further than their own block, two days after the one battle they're noted to have participated any action in had already started, on their doorstep, and they were home before dinner the next day.

So you think that Tamra wouldnt have had any idea that these aes sedai went out to heal the armies, she would have been the one to order it... even so i doubt all 450+ aes sedai at the time would have been in a 20 mile radius there would have surely been some at other nations.

 

secondly the fact that you state that it was only a 1 day travel to these armies just proves how egwene isnt acting as much as what Tamra was, with the access of gateways the borderlander countries would be accessible in 5 minutes which is alot quicker then a days ride. Yet egwene still hasnt done anything with the borderlander war on the shadowspawn.

 

 

My overall point is that egwene hasnt done anything to help out the borderlands, yet people continue to deny that the aes sedai would be any help in the battle saying they wouldnt make a difference. A single fireball would surely kill 20+ trollocs that saves 20 lives of borderlanders for every fireball. Heck rand should be doing more with the ashaman, from what they done at dumais wells no one can deny how effective they would be at the borderlands. Further im just iterating that i think egwene is worse then Tamra because Tamra had every aes sedai out of the tower helping, where egwene is worrying about passing silly tower degrees and gawyn instead of the last battle.

 

Egwene is my favourite character upto TGS but i hated her in TOM just because of the fact of the bragging about her being the best amyrlin when she doesnt do anything besides keep a straight face and stare down sitters till they look away. Her character is unrealistic in TOM apart from the "where is Rand" quote to perrin, she is 20 years old and some how has all this knowledge, sense of ownership to the tower and has an instant answer to all the questions the aes sedai pose without thinking.

[Suttree]

and do you think Saldea , Arad Doman, or Anddor Cant handle tens of thounds of trollocs?

the force that Rand faced was much more larger than the one ituralde have to face. Then are you saying that Ituralde only face what?ten thousands? five thounsands?

 

 

No I am saying exactly what I wrote in my post. Tens of thousands dead(not 10,000 or 5,000) and "entire legions" escaped to the blight. Which is of course very different than 1 million. Again if you have a quote that speaks to more numbers feel free to provide it. Not sure why you would dispute what is written in the text? Do you think BS when describing the aftermath of the battle thought to himself "ok, even though it's just a small fraction, I'm only going to mention the ones killed by fire"!?!?

 

Tamra had to deal with the finding of the dragon reborn and the Aiel War which is more then egwene has handled, egwene has done what as amyrlin?

 

Tamra didn't find the DR so you can scratch that off the list. Egwene has rooted out the BA, reunited the tower, initiated reforms that will fundamentally change the relationships between channelers forever and single handedly beat off the seanchan raid to name a few. You can try to discredit her time as the Salidar Amrylin all you want but she made a number of crucial moves during that time and the point RJ was trying to make is clear. She held on to who she was and in time even other sisters came around. Even as a prisoner she was far more Amrylin than Elaida was.

[so´jhin]

and do you think Saldea , Arad Doman, or Anddor Cant handle tens of thounds of trollocs?

the force that Rand faced was much more larger than the one ituralde have to face. Then are you saying that Ituralde only face what?ten thousands? five thounsands?

 

 

No I am saying exactly what I wrote in my post. Tens of thousands dead(not 10,000 or 5,000) and "entire legions" escaped to the blight. Which is of course very different than 1 million. Again if you have a quote that speaks to more numbers feel free to provide it. Not sure why you would dispute what is written in the text? Do you think BS when describing the aftermath of the battle thought to himself "ok, even though it's just a small fraction, I'm only going to mention the ones killed by fire"!?!?

 

Do you think BS wrote that ituralde and Bashere couldn't deafeat tens of thousands of trollocs?. With ashaman and Aes sedai with them. So Ituralde can defeat an army with 100.000 seachan and damane without ashaman but he couldn't deafeat tens of thousands of trollocs (without darkfriends chanellers besides the gap a the wall) when ha has ashaman (plus Bashere ).

Again. It s "Tens of thousands of dead trollocs smoldering" It is not "Tens of thousands dead"

[Suttree]

Waterspouts, rained down, deathgates.

 

What does "rained down" even mean. Is that some new weave I don't know about? Maybe you were confused by the term "waterspouts" but the text clearly says "Great waterspouts rose behind, made of flesh and fire" Every weave he uses would cause smoldering aside from the death gates.

 

 

Do you think BS wrote that ituralde and Bashere couldn't deafeat tens of thousands of trollocs?. With ashaman and Aes sedai with them. So Ituralde can defeat an army with 100.000 seachan and damane without ashaman but he couldn't deafeat tens of thousands of trollocs (without darkfriends chanellers besides the gap a the wall) when ha has ashaman (plus Bashere ).

Again. It s "Tens of thousands of dead trollocs smoldering" It is not "Tens of thousands dead"

 

No I don't think that...why do you keep skipping over the fact that "entire legions" escaped to the blight.

 

As for Ituralde and the Seanchan he was fighting a guerilla campaign and he led the army into a trap which is something else entirely. He was very impressed by them and thinks if he had gone nose to nose he would have been slaughtered. If you wish to keep disputing me please provide another number from the text or explain why BS when describing the battlefield post attack would decide to only mention trollocs killed by fire?(which of course is a ludicrous claim on your part) Better yet go read it for yourself so you can see the actual context in which it was written.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Dude, NitroS, I addressed exactly what you had stated concerning Tamra.

 

"During the Aiel War when Tamra Ospenya was the Amyrlin seat she ordered all Aes Sedai from the tower and sent them to go about healing of all the nations damaged by the Aiel. It was stated by Moiraine in New Spring that the only 2 Aes Sedai left in the tower were Tamra and her keeper."

 

Tamra did not, in fact, order all Aes Sedai to go about healing all the nations damaged by the Aiel.

 

 

"So you think that Tamra wouldnt have had any idea that these aes sedai went out to heal the armies, she would have been the one to order it..."

 

We do see the AS in the Tower emptied for a very short period, for the aftermath of a battle that had started two days past, taking place on their doorstep. Tamra acted late, in fact at the least, after Cairhien had been completely ravaged, after thousands upon thousands had met their deaths or had their lives destroyed, and hadn't shown any documented, quotable, effort to involve the Aes Sedai in any other battle of the Aiel War.

 

In contrast, or even comparison to Egwene, check out some of that Suttree fella's posts. His/Her(?) posts on this thread are pretty good for examples of Egwene accomplishments. All I'm saying about that though, personally, is when do we see Tamra get her hands dirty, ever.

 

 

"even so i doubt all 450+ aes sedai at the time would have been in a 20 mile radius there would have surely been some at other nations."

 

As for any other Aes Sedai in the world at the time, amongst nations, what have you, Moiraine addresses that there's around twice the number of Aes Sedai living abroad than those living in the Tower itself. We know later on in the series, with Cadsuane et al, that the amount of Tower AS vs. Out of the Tower AS, is not a significant event as far as swaths of Aes Sedai being ordered where to live or what to do as it pertains to the whims of a specific Amyrlin, eg. Tamra.

[AquilaInfernus]

I didnt say 13 because thats how many it takes to shield any man, i said 13 because thats the largest circle possible without the aid of a man. I never said its equivalent to the sum of individual strengths, egwene states that with 2 novices she nearly had as much strength as she was use to (when she couldnt light a candle with the power because of fork root) so the power of 2 novices no where near there peaks gave her enough for gateways etc. Romanda is never stated to be stronger then Lelaine she is said to be the same strength level as Lelaine, Romanda, moiraine, siuan and 1 other. Egwene and Nyneave are both stronger then Romanda and nyneave was in the tower at the end of TOM so thats 2 higher. Using novices for the source would be better then aes sedai as alot of the new novices are stronger then most aes sedai.

 

I dont see the point of you mentioning that egwene has control over rand thats got nothing to do with egwene not acting on the war as that happened towards the end of TOM.

 

Ituralde said that he had 2 ashamans that had already been weakened by weaving gateways, yet the 2 were able to hold of a bottleneck for over an hour despite only knowing how to channel for at maximum a year.

 

I was being literal when i said thats all she done when if you read she was trying to mend the rift between the ajahs......

 

 

Im merely iterating the point that tamra sent off all the aes sedai to help during the aiel war yet egwene hasnt sent any sisters for healing or to battle the forsaken as if they sent 80 aes sedai to each of the borderlands they would be destroyed in the space of a few hours. giving them weeks still to rest before the last battle.

 

13 As is merely to maximise strength. Romanda, Lelaine, Moiraine, Siuan and Elaida were the 5 of roughly equivalent strength. Only two of those are available, and both Sitters. Above them, we have Egwene, Nyneave and Elayne who are Aes Sedai. Are you suggesting that the White tower send novices out to battle shadowspawn? The Asha'man are at least trained primarily as weapons. No one of considerable strength is in a position to play hero. Don't forget that men are stronger in the weaves of Fire and Earth that seem to be the usual offensive weapons - recall in EotW that Moiraine was spent after one assault just before Shadar Logoth... If one of our top 5 could only do this much, how do you propose weaker even match that. And even healing is tiring, Moiraine is exhausted tending to the Aiel after the battle for Cairhein, she even has a talent for healing!

 

There were also more than two Asha'man at Maradon, Deepe and Antail were named, both as commanding the other channelers (after Deepe is killed).

 

As to her other actions during her month as Amyrlin of the united Tower, Siuan said she was the best, based on her own valuation of events. Guiding the Hall and the Tower as a whole despite being placed there purely through "cautious brazenness". In her own point of view she recognised that the Tar Valon Hall elected her on the same principles as the Salidar Hall (I'm not talking about the Ajah heads).

 

Finally, there is also the matter of prophecy as told by Elaida that the WT will rise stronger than ever... (misinterpreted to believe Elaida would be the Amyrlin, though we know it is Egwene). Gating the BLers to their respective nations is a far better use of power than individual Aes Sedai, along with everything else she's doing, while wrestling for control of the Hall.

[Suttree]

In contrast, or even comparison to Egwene, check out some of that Suttree fella's posts. His/Her(?)

 

HAHA it's his...and yeah Mat, you post is pretty much spot on.

[NitroS]

I didnt say 13 because thats how many it takes to shield any man, i said 13 because thats the largest circle possible without the aid of a man. I never said its equivalent to the sum of individual strengths, egwene states that with 2 novices she nearly had as much strength as she was use to (when she couldnt light a candle with the power because of fork root) so the power of 2 novices no where near there peaks gave her enough for gateways etc. Romanda is never stated to be stronger then Lelaine she is said to be the same strength level as Lelaine, Romanda, moiraine, siuan and 1 other. Egwene and Nyneave are both stronger then Romanda and nyneave was in the tower at the end of TOM so thats 2 higher. Using novices for the source would be better then aes sedai as alot of the new novices are stronger then most aes sedai.

 

I dont see the point of you mentioning that egwene has control over rand thats got nothing to do with egwene not acting on the war as that happened towards the end of TOM.

 

Ituralde said that he had 2 ashamans that had already been weakened by weaving gateways, yet the 2 were able to hold of a bottleneck for over an hour despite only knowing how to channel for at maximum a year.

 

I was being literal when i said thats all she done when if you read she was trying to mend the rift between the ajahs......

 

 

Im merely iterating the point that tamra sent off all the aes sedai to help during the aiel war yet egwene hasnt sent any sisters for healing or to battle the forsaken as if they sent 80 aes sedai to each of the borderlands they would be destroyed in the space of a few hours. giving them weeks still to rest before the last battle.

 

13 As is merely to maximise strength. Romanda, Lelaine, Moiraine, Siuan and Elaida were the 5 of roughly equivalent strength. Only two of those are available, and both Sitters. Above them, we have Egwene, Nyneave and Elayne who are Aes Sedai. Are you suggesting that the White tower send novices out to battle shadowspawn? The Asha'man are at least trained primarily as weapons. No one of considerable strength is in a position to play hero. Don't forget that men are stronger in the weaves of Fire and Earth that seem to be the usual offensive weapons - recall in EotW that Moiraine was spent after one assault just before Shadar Logoth... If one of our top 5 could only do this much, how do you propose weaker even match that. And even healing is tiring, Moiraine is exhausted tending to the Aiel after the battle for Cairhein, she even has a talent for healing!

 

There were also more than two Asha'man at Maradon, Deepe and Antail were named, both as commanding the other channelers (after Deepe is killed).

 

As to her other actions during her month as Amyrlin of the united Tower, Siuan said she was the best, based on her own valuation of events. Guiding the Hall and the Tower as a whole despite being placed there purely through "cautious brazenness". In her own point of view she recognised that the Tar Valon Hall elected her on the same principles as the Salidar Hall (I'm not talking about the Ajah heads).

 

Finally, there is also the matter of prophecy as told by Elaida that the WT will rise stronger than ever... (misinterpreted to believe Elaida would be the Amyrlin, though we know it is Egwene). Gating the BLers to their respective nations is a far better use of power than individual Aes Sedai, along with everything else she's doing, while wrestling for control of the Hall.

i just said that 13 is the maximum number a circle can have without a man, and then you say 13 AS is merely to maximise strength? how does that have relevance why do you think i said 13? because its the most sai dar that a single sister can hold would be through a circle of 13 and a sar angreal.

 

Well egwene used novices to battle the seanchan and it worked better then any aes sedai, it doesnt matter the skill or how much knowledge a novice has when there in a circle all they are is a battery for the one directing the flows.... and it is the last battle if it means winning or losing the last battle why wouldnt you, the majority of them are older then alot of the AS in the tower.....

 

If you recall the in TGS Egwene lasted hours with just 2 novices and a sar angreal killing hundreds of beasts the size of cars or bigger, weaving shields, making gateways all with just 2 novices.

 

So you are saying that its better to leave the 250 aes sedai in the tower doing nothing then going to the borderlands, i dont see how everyone replying is saying the AS wouldnt achieve anything, how do you know green sisters secret weaves arent battle weaves?

 

Whats elaida prophecy got to do with Egwene not sending AS to the Borderlands?

[NitroS]

Dude, NitroS, I addressed exactly what you had stated concerning Tamra.

 

"During the Aiel War when Tamra Ospenya was the Amyrlin seat she ordered all Aes Sedai from the tower and sent them to go about healing of all the nations damaged by the Aiel. It was stated by Moiraine in New Spring that the only 2 Aes Sedai left in the tower were Tamra and her keeper."

 

Tamra did not, in fact, order all Aes Sedai to go about healing all the nations damaged by the Aiel.

 

 

"So you think that Tamra wouldnt have had any idea that these aes sedai went out to heal the armies, she would have been the one to order it..."

 

We do see the AS in the Tower emptied for a very short period, for the aftermath of a battle that had started two days past, taking place on their doorstep. Tamra acted late, in fact at the least, after Cairhien had been completely ravaged, after thousands upon thousands had met their deaths or had their lives destroyed, and hadn't shown any documented, quotable, effort to involve the Aes Sedai in any other battle of the Aiel War.

 

In contrast, or even comparison to Egwene, check out some of that Suttree fella's posts. His/Her(?) posts on this thread are pretty good for examples of Egwene accomplishments. All I'm saying about that though, personally, is when do we see Tamra get her hands dirty, ever.

 

 

"even so i doubt all 450+ aes sedai at the time would have been in a 20 mile radius there would have surely been some at other nations."

 

As for any other Aes Sedai in the world at the time, amongst nations, what have you, Moiraine addresses that there's around twice the number of Aes Sedai living abroad than those living in the Tower itself. We know later on in the series, with Cadsuane et al, that the amount of Tower AS vs. Out of the Tower AS, is not a significant event as far as swaths of Aes Sedai being ordered where to live or what to do as it pertains to the whims of a specific Amyrlin, eg. Tamra.

Why would Tamra want to involve the tower with a war against the Aiel, they are the people of the dragon and she would obviously know the prophecies.

 

How do you know that Tamra didnt send sisters to other nations to help with healing? She would have ordered the sisters to help outside tar valon, do you really think that all 250 sisters would have just thought lets go outside and heal some people today, there amyrlin would have ordered them..... i dont see how you continue to argue that she didnt order them to, if we didnt hear tamra say for the accepted to go out and take the names of women giving birth to children then you would probably say that they just went out by themselves.

[NitroS]

and do you think Saldea , Arad Doman, or Anddor Cant handle tens of thounds of trollocs?

the force that Rand faced was much more larger than the one ituralde have to face. Then are you saying that Ituralde only face what?ten thousands? five thounsands?

 

 

No I am saying exactly what I wrote in my post. Tens of thousands dead(not 10,000 or 5,000) and "entire legions" escaped to the blight. Which is of course very different than 1 million. Again if you have a quote that speaks to more numbers feel free to provide it. Not sure why you would dispute what is written in the text? Do you think BS when describing the aftermath of the battle thought to himself "ok, even though it's just a small fraction, I'm only going to mention the ones killed by fire"!?!?

 

Tamra had to deal with the finding of the dragon reborn and the Aiel War which is more then egwene has handled, egwene has done what as amyrlin?

 

Tamra didn't find the DR so you can scratch that off the list. Egwene has rooted out the BA, reunited the tower, initiated reforms that will fundamentally change the relationships between channelers forever and single handedly beat off the seanchan raid to name a few. You can try to discredit her time as the Salidar Amrylin all you want but she made a number of crucial moves during that time and the point RJ was trying to make is clear. She held on to who she was and in time even other sisters came around. Even as a prisoner she was far more Amrylin than Elaida was.

 

Why are you changing what i say i said Egwene is the worst amyrlin the tamra that means in the tower, egwene has been in the tower for 1 month, where she gave up the right to ter angreal that the tower has had rights to for over 1000's of years also she has let 2 other competitors rise up with channeling ability which can eventually lead to rivals and wars of the one power. Egwene getting rid of 3 BA in the tower is hardly rooting out the Black ajah, im taling about her time as ammyrlin if you wish to discuss egwenes achievements before her time as ammyrlin in the tower feel free to create your own thread about the issue.

 

Finally this thread is about egwenes lack of initative when it comes to the borderlander armies, the little we hear of Tamra we hear that she has sent all sisters out of the tower to help with the war whether to the walls or other nations and she has ordered the finding of the dragon reborn through the name gathering and her searchers.

 

While egwene in the space of a monthhas broke tower law by putting herself at risk of dieing and therefore could have had the whole tower fall again with the death of an ammyrlin and her fretting about gawyn and playing games with the sitters trying to trick them into passing laws.

 

Thread is about egwenes lack of action on the borderlands, please stay on topic.

[Kahsm]

As for the circle of 13 Aes Sedai thing: The problem is Rand is an agile channeler. And the circle strength MAY add a few extra flows to the Aes Sedai who controls the circle, but they aren't going to get anywhere near Rand's agility, even if the overall power is equal. Maybe Egwene could lead it and get close to Rand in a a full circle of strong Aes Sedai where she's not doped up on forkroot *lights the fuse*

Wait are you really saying that a circle of the white towers top 13 aes sedai with there strongest sar angreal can only match Rand in power strength? When Lews Therin states he would have trouble with more then 6. People are over setimating Rands power (not skill as a weaver) he is the strongest but the difference isnt that much between Alivia, nyneave, who are shown to be stronger then some forsaken. etc.

 

Obviously you are not familiar with my work. I am one of the most fervent opponents of most super-rand theories. I don't even believe his gold brain stuff is CoL related. I meant 13 general Aes Sedai may be required. Your average Aes Sedai is extremely weak compared to our heroes. My point about Egwene leading had to do with the "agility" of the person in control, Egwene's strength is nearly irrelevant. And please don't tell me flow splitting is based on strength, it's not.

 

LTT was talking about being shielded by a woman, and that's a whole other matter from pure strength. A woman weaving (or controlling a circle) can be weaker and still shield a man because of the skill v strength "sex balance". But because the shield is being held on the opposite sex, more channelers are required to hold the shield. All I was talking about is, if women were going to do the same thing Rand did at Maradon, what would it take? And I'm guessing it would take a lot of average Aes Sedai, and someone controlling the circle who is particularly skilled with multiple flows.

 

Do you think BS wrote that ituralde and Bashere couldn't deafeat tens of thousands of trollocs?. With ashaman and Aes sedai with them.

The Asha'man were pretty tired from the get go, and your average Asha'man is barely any better than Aes Sedai. They just spam 1 thing until they tire out.

 

Waterspouts, rained down, deathgates.

 

What does "rained down" even mean. Is that some new weave I don't know about? Maybe you were confused by the term "waterspouts" but the text clearly says "Great waterspouts rose behind, made of flesh and fire" Every weave he uses would cause smoldering aside from the death gates.

Kinda true for trollocs, which I think you're focusing on, but he also used the offensive ice shield ward to blast draghkar when they got close ;)

 

But if you'll allow me to quote my own summary of that battle:

And the pinnacle, from the perspective of a man who knows a well planned strategic maneuver when he (Ituralde) sees one. Rand has his death gates at the front, the tempests (fire-y water spouts/tornadoes) in the back throwing trollocs around, he's got his archer air defense setup (ice blasting ward). He is a 1 man army, but not so much because of his power, but his smarts in setting it all up to work together. He creates a storm to get the wind gowing, and the lighting going, so that he doesn't have to create them from nothing. They all feed off each other. Ituralde describes how once everything's setup Rand cranks up the volume and then simply turns it off.

 

And yeah, a lot of Trollocs broke and ran off pretty quick:

Waves of Trollocs broke, the drums faltering. Entire legions of them turned and fled, stumbling up the hillside and over one another, fleeing back towards the Blight.

 

Whats elaida prophecy got to do with Egwene not sending AS to the Borderlands?

 

Just that Egwene will make good decisions. Obviously doesn't mean this particular event is well handled, but might cause some to give her the benefit of the doubt once in awhile... which no one will ever do because they hold her to some crazy high standard no character in the series can meet. But because they see her as arrogant and certain of herself, they think she should be able to instantly transform a thousand year old institution and a few hundred old women into either some peace and love hippie commune; a possession-less linen robe wearing, won't even hurt a fly monastery; or a democratic, distributed power-base, responsible, corruption-less, and selfless government. Some feel they should be all three by now. I mean Egwene has been Amyrlin for MONTHS!

 

Egwene has been in the tower for 1 month, where she gave up the right to ter angreal that the tower has had rights to for over 1000's of years also she has let 2 other competitors rise up with channeling ability which can eventually lead to rivals and wars of the one power. Egwene getting rid of 3 BA in the tower is hardly rooting out the Black ajah, im taling about her time as ammyrlin if you wish to discuss egwenes achievements before her time as ammyrlin in the tower feel free to create your own thread about the issue.

 

Finally this thread is about egwenes lack of initative when it comes to the borderlander armies, the little we hear of Tamra we hear that she has sent all sisters out of the tower to help with the war whether to the walls or other nations and she has ordered the finding of the dragon reborn through the name gathering and her searchers.

 

While egwene in the space of a monthhas broke tower law by putting herself at risk of dieing and therefore could have had the whole tower fall again with the death of an ammyrlin and her fretting about gawyn and playing games with the sitters trying to trick them into passing laws.

 

I find it funny that some people trash Egwene for consolidating too much power and claiming all objects of power belong to the WT. And then you trash for pretty much the exact opposite. Poor girl cannot win.

 

Others have already mentioned the great new policies she has already put in place. Foreign exchange, novices of any age and such. Those moves will change the culture in the WT, and the culture needs to be changed before any drastic things will change. The WT is not a single woman. The Amyrlin answers to he Hall. So until she changes the culture, she will only be able to do small things, slowly, to keep form being torn off the seat.

 

We know next to nothing about Tamra Ospeny. I would ask why didn't Tamra already have the Aes Sedai out? She wasn't dealing with the DR conquering lands, she didn't have hundreds of male channelers running around the world 'unsupervised', she didn't deal with black ajah in her own tower, she didn't have to reunite a split tower. Why wasn't the tower already empty? Maybe it was. Maybe she only had a handful Aes Sedai in the tower to send out to help. We have no idea.

[Suttree]

Why would Tamra want to involve the tower with a war against the Aiel, they are the people of the dragon and she would obviously know the prophecies.

 

How do you know that Tamra didnt send sisters to other nations to help with healing? She would have ordered the sisters to help outside tar valon, do you really think that all 250 sisters would have just thought lets go outside and heal some people today, there amyrlin would have ordered them.....

 

As with much of the prophecy that remained unexplained, no AS knew that the Aiel were the people of the dragon.

 

I think you are missing the point. He is saying Tamra did order the AS out to heal, but only in the immediate vicinity of Tar Valon, to deal with the aftermath of the Battle of Shining Walls. Which of course is far different than "sent them to go about healing of all the nations damaged by the Aiel."

 

Why are you changing what i say i said Egwene is the worst amyrlin the tamra that means in the tower, egwene has been in the tower for 1 month, where she gave up the right to ter angreal that the tower has had rights to for over 1000's of years also she has let 2 other competitors rise up with channeling ability which can eventually lead to rivals and wars of the one power. Egwene getting rid of 3 BA in the tower is hardly rooting out the Black ajah, im taling about her time as ammyrlin if you wish to discuss egwenes achievements before her time as ammyrlin in the tower feel free to create your own thread about the issue.

 

Because what you say is inaccurate. When the WT writes the 13th depository history of Egwene's reign do you think it will start with the events of ToM? No of course not, she was Amrylin from the second she was raised in Salidar. She held on to being the Armylin while captive in the WT, and continues on as Amrylin until present. You trying to deny that along with the rest of your critique of her actions is totally absurd. For instance in total their were far more than 3 BA killed by her actions and there are none left in the WT so yes they were rooted out. As for the other channeling groups they are all linked now. They will be exchanging young women to train with each other and there will be much more understanding and affinity between the groups. The world is changing and this was the best possible way to move forward, it was a brilliant move.

[NitroS]

 

 

Because what you say is inaccurate. When the WT writes the 13th depository history of Egwene's reign do you think it will start with the events of ToM? No of course not, she was Amrylin from the second she was raised in Salidar. She held on to being the Armylin while captive in the WT, and continues on as Amrylin until present. You trying to deny that along with the rest of your critique of her actions is totally absurd. For instance in total their were far more than 3 BA killed by her actions and there are none left in the WT so yes they were rooted out. As for the other channeling groups they are all linked now. They will be exchanging young women to train with each other and there will be much more understanding and affinity between the groups. The world is changing and this was the best possible way to move forward, it was a brilliant move.

 

Firstly i really do think her reign as Ammyrlin will be listed from when she joined back with the WT, she was a rebel group that announced herself ammyrlin by randoms, She said so herself thats why she was raised to ammyrlin again. She then scoffed them down for being rebels, Elaida will be listed as the ammyrlin until the seanchan attack, where a new ammyrlin (you heard correctly she only got properly raised in the tower you dont seem to understand this). If i go grab 50 random members of congress get them to announce me president of the united states then act like im president does that make it so?

 

I said their were 3 BA killed in the tower, i wasnt counting the ones outside tar valon because im talking about her reign as ammyrlin as she wasnt officially ammyrlin then. If Barak obama killed 50 terrorists and then got elected president would you consider those killings to be part of his president reign? i dont understand how you fail at such simple logic.

 

Yes because we know how successful arming the aiel with more weaves are when there whole race gets overtaken and collared by aidams(sp) (yes it is the future as of the events that will happen now, but yes it will change because aviendha will do something about it).

 

Egwene should be doing more in the borderlands for that month off she had you keep coming with arguments not related that no way rebuddle to say egwene is doing enough, its the last battle tower politics can wait, 250+ aes sedai all linked (in seperate groups) at the borderlands would cause utter destruction against the trollocs yet she sat by for a month. Please give me some valid points as to why this wouldnt be effective and why her worrying about gawyn is more important.

 

i have edited the name of the thread because you replying to points have become to difficult for you, i agree there is not enough knowledge about tamra to disagree or support she is better then egwene, i was just stating from those 2 plans we have heard that tamra seems more active.

[AquilaInfernus]

i just said that 13 is the maximum number a circle can have without a man, and then you say 13 AS is merely to maximise strength? how does that have relevance why do you think i said 13? because its the most sai dar that a single sister can hold would be through a circle of 13 and a sar angreal.

 

Well egwene used novices to battle the seanchan and it worked better then any aes sedai, it doesnt matter the skill or how much knowledge a novice has when there in a circle all they are is a battery for the one directing the flows.... and it is the last battle if it means winning or losing the last battle why wouldnt you, the majority of them are older then alot of the AS in the tower.....

 

If you recall the in TGS Egwene lasted hours with just 2 novices and a sar angreal killing hundreds of beasts the size of cars or bigger, weaving shields, making gateways all with just 2 novices.

 

So you are saying that its better to leave the 250 aes sedai in the tower doing nothing then going to the borderlands, i dont see how everyone replying is saying the AS wouldnt achieve anything, how do you know green sisters secret weaves arent battle weaves?

 

Whats elaida prophecy got to do with Egwene not sending AS to the Borderlands?

 

Re the 13 circle, you've mistakenly be sucked into irrelevant point. Some posters here will jump on any inconsistency to ridicule an argument (which is why I mentioned shielding men). We both agree that the greatest strength would be 13 sisters linked with Sa'angreal.

 

Egwene lasted maybe one hour with the most powerful Sa'angreal in the tower and several linked novices and accepted against a raid. Egwene is quite possibly in our top 10 female channelers strength wise. Recall that Rand can elect to channel exclusively through (sa')angreal as he did hours into the Cairhein battle. Therefore Egwene would logically be able to do the same to extend her strength. However she was carried from the tower beyond exhausted. You're talking about a raid here, in a raid, the attackers want to be quick, complete their mission and be gone without resistance. Egwene was serious resistance, felling over a dozen to'raken while fending off shields, fireballs and arrows.

 

I'm saying that the White Tower, while stronger than it was with Elaida at the helm, is not there yet. Of the Aes Sedai able to emmulate Egwene's defence, we have at most four in the White Tower during this month (Romanda, Lelaine, Egwene and Nyneave). Only Nyneave is in a position of freedom to go to the Borderlands (the others being Sitters and the Amyrlin). I'm saying that of the 400 plus Aes Sedai in the Tower at this time, it would be suicidal to send them to the Borderlands when their strength is less than Egwenes, with less powerful angreal, for longer lengths of battle. Such an environment would demand the strength of character Aes Sedai are tested for, not untrained novices, and recall that the raid showed how much of that there was going round!

 

Speculation is not evidence. Egwene is a powerful outlier for battle, only foolish commanders fight on the frontline when they have a choice. Why do Aiel children build stick chiefs when they play at spears?

[Suttree]

i have edited the name of the thread because you replying to points have become to difficult for you, i agree there is not enough knowledge about tamra to disagree or support she is better then egwene, i was just stating from those 2 plans we have heard that tamra seems more active.

 

You edited the name of the thread because you were flat our wrong about Tamra's orders. Just like you are wrong about when Egwene became Amrylin. I understand that the only way you can possibly attempt to support your claims is to limit her actions into a small sliver of time, but she started in Salidar, there is no question about it. The 13th depository will record that as the start of her reign, it isn't even open for debate. She met with foreign nobles in that capacity and the orders she initiated during that time still hold. Not even one was repealed or deemed illegal because she was not yet Amrylin. How is that possible if her time there does not count?

 

As for the Aiel, so first you were saying it was a bad idea because all the channeling groups would be at war some day? Now it is a bad idea because all the Aiel will be collared?(which you admit isn't going to happen) uhhmmmm yeah, you've convinced me.

 

In regards to the BA she rooted them and a forsaken out of the AS order, in totality. The ones in the rebel camp don't count any less than the ones in the WT. It is pretty simple logic. Trying to take away credit for her actions pre-ToM based on some self perceived technicality is beyond lame.

 

While admittedly somewhat underwhelming, Egwene's response upon hearing news of the Borderland invasion was to immediately co-opt the blue network and set it to gathering more intelligence. We don't yet know what she will do with the information she receives. I would reserve judgement on how she deals with the Borderland situation until aMoL. If you are going to place blame look first to the Borderland rulers for stripping their armies and cruising around the southland instead of protecting their realms.

[Winespring Patron]

I agree not only should Egwene dispatch Aes Sedai to bolster the faltering Borderland defenses but she should be doing more to move the Borderland Monarchs back to their respective countries before their "stripped" holding forces are overrun. Ituralde, Lan, and even Rand's mobile fire brigade can't cover the entire Blight border of 4 countries!

 

She should have sent an envoy to Far Madding and assist on the logistics of making enough gateways to move 200,000 troops to scattered locations in Saldea, Kandor, Arafel, and Shienar. I know Rand has already gotten an agreement to return from the Rulers but surely his Asha'man and sworn Aes Sedai could use help making all those Gateways?

 

Some of the gathering forces in FOM could probably be more productively used in the Northern Lands...

[Durinax]

actually just to derail this for a moment does egwene do anything to reintegrate the 1/3 of the tower that didnt choose a side

[Mats Spare Hat]

actually just to derail this for a moment does egwene do anything to reintegrate the 1/3 of the tower that didnt choose a side

 

 

Here's a bigger kicker, does anyone even know where the majority of those Aes Sedai happen to be? As to say, if you wanted to reintegrate those folks, you would need to somehow know where they happen to be. I'm kinda doubting they all went about leaving forwarding addresses, or all hung out in one convenient neighborhood, waiting to be found on a whim?

[NitroS]

 

You edited the name of the thread because you were flat our wrong about Tamra's orders. Just like you are wrong about when Egwene became Amrylin. I understand that the only way you can possibly attempt to support your claims is to limit her actions into a small sliver of time, but she started in Salidar, there is no question about it. The 13th depository will record that as the start of her reign, it isn't even open for debate. She met with foreign nobles in that capacity and the orders she initiated during that time still hold. Not even one was repealed or deemed illegal because she was not yet Amrylin. How is that possible if her time there does not count?

 

 

 

How am i flat out wrong about Tamra's orders? whats the thread name even got to do with Tamras orders? why so mad? where anywhere is it listed that she didnt give those orders? To think that all 300+ aes sedai were just around the shining walls healing the armies is a pretty stupid observation to me, it would be logical to send out other aes sedai to other continents to heal other countries. i dont have the book but i remember a quote from moiraine "every sister with the smallest healing ability was sent from the tower" if you had to make an educated guess that in the whole duration of the aiel war would you honestly say the Ammyrlin seat would not sned out sisters to heal the other nations, heck there would have been sisters already there, so either way sisters would have been healing the other nations, even if they were on tamra's orders to do something or not the result is the same. LOL this is getting quite funny you just stated that her time will be in the 13th depository then concluded it by saying its not open for debate, great way to validate your argument. What do nobles have to do with her being ammyrlin i see them no way connected? care to explain? Perrin gives orders to nobles and there obeyed oh wait we better raise him ammyrlin now since a noble listened :|:|:|:|.

 

Egwene got officially raised in TOM she said that they need to see her as ammyrlin because she was raised by rebels. The character you are defending proved you wrong in the exact scene we are discussing lol.

 

So you just said its better for egwene to sit around for a month and let maradon fall, and not even send any healing to the other armies within a month while she was fretting over gawyn and tower squabbles?

People have already agreed she would have done more i dont understand why your arguing this what are you trying to achieve? raise your ego by saying its better for egwene to not help? even if she does something in the last battle it wont change the fact that thousands are dieing in the borderlands each day.

[NitroS]

actually just to derail this for a moment does egwene do anything to reintegrate the 1/3 of the tower that didnt choose a side

 

 

Here's a bigger kicker, does anyone even know where the majority of those Aes Sedai happen to be? As to say, if you wanted to reintegrate those folks, you would need to somehow know where they happen to be. I'm kinda doubting they all went about leaving forwarding addresses, or all hung out in one convenient neighborhood, waiting to be found on a whim?

 

Well Elaida sent out the message to all eyes and ears that the tower is asking for all aes sedai to return, so im assuming egwene will hopefully do something of the sort soon, as you would want the most powerful tool the light has to be gathered.

I agree not only should Egwene dispatch Aes Sedai to bolster the faltering Borderland defenses but she should be doing more to move the Borderland Monarchs back to their respective countries before their "stripped" holding forces are overrun. Ituralde, Lan, and even Rand's mobile fire brigade can't cover the entire Blight border of 4 countries!

 

She should have sent an envoy to Far Madding and assist on the logistics of making enough gateways to move 200,000 troops to scattered locations in Saldea, Kandor, Arafel, and Shienar. I know Rand has already gotten an agreement to return from the Rulers but surely his Asha'man and sworn Aes Sedai could use help making all those Gateways?

 

Some of the gathering forces in FOM could probably be more productively used in the Northern Lands...

 

This