Rand and Egwene at the FOM

[Kahsm]

How can you say that Rand will not be the dragon anymore? Unless he somehow gets a completely new soul and personality, he is still the Dragon. It is his soul that makes him The Dragon, not a title given by other people to him. It's not like the Ta'veren effect that can be taken away from him once his job is done, he will ALWAYS be the Dragon.

 

He'll be the same man, yes, but the world has no place for that man. There's no duty for him to fulfill. His job is done. Obviously he'll be a "hero", but heroes are not automatically made leaders of the world. Most of them tend to retire into seclusion.

 

My point is that if he is going to claim the Sedai title, he will deffer to whoever the current First is (Egwene at the moment). It would be very un-Rand-like for him to go around saying "I'm Rand Sedai, but I don't believe Egwene stands above me because I was the Dragon Reborn."

 

Rand does not want to bring chaos down on people when he can help it, and actively claiming to be something beyond the rules (even if he is) is just not going to be good for the Aes Sedai or the world. He won't forcibly claim the stole and staff, so either he'll not be An Aes Sedai at all, or he'll deffer to the first.

 

Think Aemon Targaryen, if you've read ASoIAF.

Edit: Or watched the show... I guess.

[Himiko]

I guess that depends on whether the Asha'man and the Aes Sedai will join to form one organisation, and how its done. If they remain as guardians and servants, then obviously each will have a separate leader (presumably Logain and Egwene, and whoever comes after them), neither of whom will have to defer to the other.

 

If the Asha'man want to be recognised as AS, then it is conceivable that they will bow before Egwene, as the current leader of the AS. However, since, as people have said, Egwene herself is fairly sexist, the Tower's viewpoint seems fairly sexist, etc. I don't think that this is the way they will go. I don't think its the sensible way to go, anyway. Unless Egwene dies in TG and a different Amyrlin, with a different viewpoint is elected, which I think is unlikely.

 

If they want to unite all male and female channelers under the same organisation, I'd suggest Egwene and Logain (for argument's sake, let's assume these are the two leaders that will be in place) share power over this organisation, men and women have equal places in the organisation, Ajahs are either dispensed with or reorganised, and all roles- be they guardians or Ajahs- be open to both genders. Of course, AS and Asha'man could remain separate and still do this simply by opening their doors to the opposite gender, too. If they come together as one organisation, and having 2 leaders does not work, then a Hall/ committee made up of representatives from both former groups should gather to elect a new leader for the united channelers.

 

Once again, I have rambled, but basically, I think its very unlikely that equality, balance and working together will be acheived by the Asha'man being accepted into the WT and becoming Aes Sedai, as they are in this age, under a ruler they had no say in electing, and who is pissed at their former organisation for bonding women. I doubt very much this is what they themselves want, either. We have seen too much criticism of the current AS, their politicking, bickering, the three oaths, the self importance, the Ajah system, etc. to believe that it should remain as it is following the Last Battle. All that has happened so far is that the female AS have been reunited, the system remains deeply flawed. Similarly, the Black Tower is full of Darkfriends, many Asha'man are scattered across the world, and we have a small group of male and female channelers trying to escape it. Its being torn apart from the inside. Separately, as they are now, I'll be disappointed if these organisations remain as they are. More changes need to happen than the White Tower simply saying "Ok, men can join now", and carrying on exactly as before.

[Suttree]

How can you say that Rand will not be the dragon anymore? Unless he somehow gets a completely new soul and personality, he is still the Dragon. It is his soul that makes him The Dragon, not a title given by other people to him. It's not like the Ta'veren effect that can be taken away from him once his job is done, he will ALWAYS be the Dragon.

 

That isn't exactly true, The Dragon was a title given to LTT by the people. Hence Rand is the Dragon Reborn. We don't know what the CoL was called in other lifetimes but we do know that there are ages where he lives a normal life and isn't the CoL at all.

[Kahsm]

How can you say that Rand will not be the dragon anymore? Unless he somehow gets a completely new soul and personality, he is still the Dragon. It is his soul that makes him The Dragon, not a title given by other people to him. It's not like the Ta'veren effect that can be taken away from him once his job is done, he will ALWAYS be the Dragon.

 

That isn't exactly true, The Dragon was a title given to LTT by the people. Hence Rand is the Dragon Reborn. We don't know what the CoL was called in other lifetimes but we do know that there are ages where he lives a normal life and isn't the CoL at all.

 

I think he means in the current post-TG age though. It would be silly for me to say everyone will forget about Rand the moment TG is done. Everyone will still know Rand al'Thor WAS the Dragon Reborn (assuming he lives of course). But my point is that the title will have no purpose, he won't be ta'veren, so he'll be nothing but a retired hero who needs to find a place in the world.