Saidin not fully cleansed

[Tensai]

Just a quick point to add to Genteled Bens' description of the cleansing - I think the DO's taint and the taint of Shadar Logoth annihilated each other - I always thought of them as evil and Anti-evil, much like matter and anti-matter.

[Wise One]

I suspect Fain is the Gollum of this story, and might have a significant part to play in the defeat of the shadow.

[CrazyMike]

I don't see the effects of the Tainted Saiden being removed from the men that channeled it before the cleansing,,, while true the source is clean now, the men that had been channeling it before it was cleaned still have the residue in their souls and they are still insane to what ever degree their insanity had advanced before the cleansing of saiden.

 

Kinda like this if I may make a parrable here, a guy goes down to the local Mall parking lot on the busiest day of the year and starts lobing hand grenades into the crowds, lots of people get hurt and maimed,,, the police arrive and kill the guy, the hand grenades stop and no one get hurt anymore,,, however you still have people laying around with bleeding holes in them , the damage was already done to them before the police stoped the maniac with the hand grenades.

 

sorry but I just do not see the bad things going away so easy,,, Rand is still suffering from some degree of insanity and he is also still Tainted ,,,

also ,,, Rand did not clean his wound and he did not clean the Shador Logath Dagger that Fadden Pain has,,, Rand only cleaned the Source or Saiden to be exact...

 

Furthermore,,, the Female Aes Sedai that had linked with Men channeling the Tainted Saiden before the Cleansing should have gotten a little taint on themselves also...

[CrazyMike]

P.S.

 

yeah I think there is potential for Faden Pain to be big time involved with his dagger in the end book...

 

after all the Shadar Logath Evil is still the enemy of my enemy the Dark Lord... and size should not matter in the spiritual aspect of the equasion,,, the two evils can still destroy each other...

 

Maybe make a Faden Pain Hand Grenade and lob it into the Dark Lords Prison... Boom Boom in Shayol Ghule ...

[Thor]

Well, most of us read through the series so far, so I am really surprised that anyone would think of destroying DO. The balance is everything, no balance = no world = DO win even if he is destroyed.

 

You don't want to destroy DO, even if you can.

[Luckers]

Actually the balance is never specified as a nessasary function of the wheel.

[CrazyMike]

The Dark One is not part of Creation in the RJ Universe,,, the Dark One was not included in the makeup of the Universe when it was created so he is not a necesary ingredient to the Wheel of Time and he is not a part of the balance...

 

The Dark Lord is an UNBALANCING action that threatens the total destruction of the RJ Universe...

 

Note:

The Foresaken had to drill a HOLE using Balefire, through the Core of the Existing Universe into a totaly alien, and unknown to them, other Demension of time and space,,, the Forsaken did not go looking for the Dark Lord, they accidently found his prison and released him into their world by accident,,, the Dark Lord used his Silky Smooth persuasion and temtation of Power to seduce the Foresaken to serve him,,, all of the Foresaken were already self serving power hungry eliteist with some mental problems in existance BEFORE the Dark One tempted and subverted,,, in other words the Foresaken all ready had all the Basic mental ingrediants to be EVIL underlings to the Dark Lord...

Lews Therins Universe before the Dark One was not perfect and evil existed there to some degree, but Lews Therins universe was as near perfect as it could be made,,, then Lanfear,aka Mierin Eronaile, drilled the BORE into the Dark Ones Prison, she was not looking for the Dark One she was looking for POWER FAME and GLORY, she was and is a Selfish Vain Arrogant and Vengeful woman with many mental delusions and a total disregard for the other people, she is easy for the Dark One to tempt and enslave by her own evil lust and ambitions.

 

Detroying the Dark One and permanently Sealing the Bore is totaly the Mission here,,, the Dark one is NOT part of the balance of the RJ Universe...

 

While some fans may think the Dark One is the opposite side of the same coin of the Creator, even if that is so:

(1) The Dark One is not part of the Creators universe

(2) The Creator obviously Seperated himself from the Dark One and the Creator was doing just fine without the Dark One until the Foresaken tampered with creation and opened a hole to the Dark Ones Prison

[Luckers]

The Foresaken had to drill a HOLE using Balefire, through the Core of the Existing Universe into a totaly alien, and unknown to them, other Demension of time and space,,, the Forsaken did not go looking for the Dark Lord, they accidently found his prison and released him into their world by accident,,, the Dark Lord used his Silky Smooth persuasion and temtation of Power to seduce the Foresaken to serve him,,, all of the Foresaken were already self serving power hungry eliteist with some mental problems in existance BEFORE the Dark One tempted and subverted,,, in other words the Foresaken all ready had all the Basic mental ingrediants to be EVIL underlings to the Dark Lord...

 

Sometimes crazymike, i think you've read a different series then the rest of us.

 

One, only one of the team involved in drilling the bore turned to the shadow and become one of the forsaken, and that was much later. Two, the bore was not drilled with balefire. Balefire wasn't discovered until 55 years after the drilling of the bore.

[CrazyMike]

Oh Luckers;

 

Thankyou for rescuing me from my misunderstanding;

 

So if you will please give the reference proving that Balefire was not discovered until 50 years after the Bore was drilled into the Dark Ones Prison I will thank you very much; of course if you can not provid a reference you will only prove you are an idiot, no harm there since it should be obvious to everyone already.

 

and of course the rest of the post is still accurate anyway :lol:

[TheDiceAgain...]

Luckers doesn't have to, I'll do it for him:

 

From the BWB courtesy of Wotmania:

 

During the War of Power, the One Power was used in ways previously unimagined. It was used as a fearsome weapon, and as a tool to make conventional weapons more dangerous.

 

But no use of the One Power was as frightening as the weave known as balefire. Both sides of the war discovered this dangerous weave, and used it liberally. It was invincible. The searing liquid fire destroyed anything it touched.

 

But then both sides discovered the hidden cost associated with balefire. It actually burned threads of the Pattern out of existence before they were destroyed with balefire. The stronger the weave of balefire, the further back the thread was destroyed.

 

Once this was discovered, both sides discontinued the use of balefire. During the year balefire was used, entire cities were destroyed with this most dangerous weapon. Had the use of balefire continued, it is quite possible the entire Pattern would have unraveled. The very existence of the Pattern would have been endangered by widespread use of balefire.

 

While its use is forbidden even to this day, there are some who still possess the knowledge to weave balefire. It can only be hoped that these individuals never again choose to use balefire. For when one begins its use, others will follow. And the Pattern might again be endangered.

 

The important part of that quote is "During the War of Power" which didn't start until 40 or 50 years after the drilling of the Bore. Case closed, and you're wrong. Have a nice day Mike :D

[TheDiceAgain...]

And just in case there was any doubt:

What seemed a tiny chip of white spun away from the Sharom in a jet of black fire; it descended, deceptively slow, insignificant. Then a hundred gouts spurted everywhere around the huge white sphere...

 

Charn's POV of the drilling of the Bore - The Shadow Rising, The Dedicated p. 437 (paperback)

 

"A tiny chip of white in a gout of black fire" sure as hell doesn't sound like balefire to me.

 

And by the way, I was slightly off in my last post, the Collapse which directly followed the drilling of the Bore and preceded the War of Power took between 100 and 110 years. So you're even further off than I originally thought.

 

But then again I think the rest of us already knew who the only ignorant idiot is around here...

[Luckers]

I too thought it was fifty years, ah well.

 

Balefire was discovered in the war of power, as Dice's quote shows, and the numerous other similar quotes throughout the series.

[Thor]

The Dark One is not part of Creation in the RJ Universe' date=',, the Dark One was not included in the makeup of the Universe when it was created so he is not a necesary ingredient to the Wheel of Time and he is not a part of the balance...

 

The Dark Lord is an UNBALANCING action that threatens the total destruction of the RJ Universe...

 

Note:

The Foresaken had to drill a HOLE using Balefire, through the Core of the Existing Universe into a totaly alien, and unknown to them, other Demension of time and space,,, the Forsaken did not go looking for the Dark Lord, they accidently found his prison and released him into their world by accident,,, the Dark Lord used his Silky Smooth persuasion and temtation of Power to seduce the Foresaken to serve him,,, all of the Foresaken were already self serving power hungry eliteist with some mental problems in existance BEFORE the Dark One tempted and subverted,,, in other words the Foresaken all ready had all the Basic mental ingrediants to be EVIL underlings to the Dark Lord...

Lews Therins Universe before the Dark One was not perfect and evil existed there to some degree, but Lews Therins universe was as near perfect as it could be made,,, then Lanfear,aka Mierin Eronaile, drilled the BORE into the Dark Ones Prison, she was not looking for the Dark One she was looking for POWER FAME and GLORY, she was and is a Selfish Vain Arrogant and Vengeful woman with many mental delusions and a total disregard for the other people, she is easy for the Dark One to tempt and enslave by her own evil lust and ambitions.

 

Detroying the Dark One and permanently Sealing the Bore is totaly the Mission here,,, the Dark one is NOT part of the balance of the RJ Universe...

 

While some fans may think the Dark One is the opposite side of the same coin of the Creator, even if that is so:

(1) The Dark One is not part of the Creators universe

(2) The Creator obviously Seperated himself from the Dark One and the Creator was doing just fine without the Dark One until the Foresaken tampered with creation and opened a hole to the Dark Ones Prison[/b']

 

Considering that the DO cannot step outside the pattern, I seriously doubt that he is not part of the universe.

 

You sound like some misled...........person.

[CrazyMike]

8)

[RobertAlexWillis]

While I certainly don't agree with CrazyMike (he is, of course, Crazy) ... I don't agree with this either:

 

Considering that the DO cannot step outside the pattern, I seriously doubt that he is not part of the universe.

 

Um ... the Dark One is imprisoned outside the Pattern. He can't get fully IN. (The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time, page 16)

 

To Demandred, in the prologue to Lord of Chaos, he says he cannot step outside of time, not the Pattern. Time and the Pattern are interrelated, but not the same thing.

[rd2000]

Also, when Moridin travels using the TP, it says he tears the fabric of the pattern and steps outside the pattern to travel.

[gelrad]

The DO has a lot in common with Oil in our world...

 

(And this remaing me of Dune, that the Spice there has a lot in common with Oil...)

[Luckers]

The Spice in Dune was meant to be an analogy, i suspect... the Dark One connection though, strikes me as a bit... stretched.

[gelrad]

1. Oil is Black...

 

2. You need to drill for Oil...

 

3. Oil is a source of energy...

 

4. Oil as energy damage the envirument and that could be a sort of a taint.

 

5. Oil created a lot of Evil in our world by giving power to Evil regims...

[Luckers]

Oil is sentient.

 

Oil was intentionally imprisoned.

 

Oil bring people back from the dead.

 

Oil controls the weather.

 

Oh wait...

 

Also, of your points. 1. The Dark One is not Black. The dark One is non-coproreal, with neither matter nor an assosiative colour. 4. Oil is a natural byproduct of the enviroment. It is the uses to which we put it that makes it damaging. The Dark One on the other hand is intrinsically about the destruction of existence. 5. Oil has also resulted int a lot of good, and powere good reigims.

 

I'm sorry, but its a stretch.

[gelrad]

I didn't said Oil equals the DO, only that analogy to it...

 

Oil has a large and ill affect on the weather.

 

Oil is not alwase Black, but it is viewed as such...

 

Oil is not sentient, but it could be said the the Oil indenstry is...

[Luckers]

I'm sorry.... I just dont see it.

[Thor]

Um ... the Dark One is imprisoned outside the Pattern. He can't get fully IN. (The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time' date=' page 16)

 

To Demandred, in the prologue to Lord of Chaos, he says he cannot step outside of time, not the Pattern. Time and the Pattern are interrelated, but not the same thing.[/quote']

 

I disagree. Time is pattern.

 

The wheel of time spins out the pattern......hum, wait. I think you might be right.

 

DO cannot step outside time, but he can travel between different patterns (universes).

 

OMG, multi dimensions. :shock:

[RobertAlexWillis]

Well ... that put me to slee .... -snore-

[CrazyMike]

How about if they make "Queen Morgase Trakand" into a Sul'Dam and give her the Leash for "Semirhage"?[/b]