The mechanics of channeling and the nature of weaves

[Xeonicus]

To start off, I know there is a lot of speculation on this subject, so I don't intend it to be 100% correct. This is mostly for myself as I was thinking about it in regards to a video game, but I figured the subject itself would be of interest to the whole community.

 

Think of this like a science class discussing the mechanics of channeling, flows, weaves, etc. from an observable methodological perspective.

 

Threads of the power

 

What does channeling look like to the channeler, visually speaking? My understanding is that flows of the power look like translucent threads of the various colors (corresponding to the elements). What color are they? Green-Earth, White-Air, Red-Fire, Blue-Water, Yellow-Spirit?

 

Now the channeler usually has to weave combinations or single strands of the power to incur a result. But, they can poke around with a single strand. A single strand of fire can be send out from ones self to light a candle perhaps? Or a mesh of multiple fire strands and perhaps air for propulsion (if thats the right idea) can form a hurling fireball? Now in these cases, when does the strand translate into a real result? Does the channeler have to "will" the trigger to take place? Is lighting a candle as simple as touching a wick with a strand of fire, or is there an arcane formula (weaving pattern) that releases the potential?

 

Raw Strength vs. Proficiency

 

We've seen it before many times, this idea of raw strength vs. proficiency with the power. The long time Aei Sedai who has trained for 30 years, can weave the power as deftly as a gleeman juggles several balls. Whereas the young Accepted, who is not quite as disciplined but has more raw strength, still cannot weave with the same ability as the veteran Aei Sedai.

 

A disciplined channeler could no doubt weave faster. Do we know what happens when an undisciplined channeler blunders a weave trying to go too fast? Distasterous results? Harmless collapsing of the weave?

 

I think of it kind of like painting. Raw strength is like how much paint you have in your bucket. Discipline is like your artistic ability. All the artistic ability in the world won't let you paint a Mona Lisa if you only have a thimble of paint, but all the paint in the world won't either if you can't do much more than stick figures.

 

Are all weaves created equal? Namely, does ones discpline equate to a "stronger" version of the weave? Is it harder to sever a weave or unravel a tied off weave if it was done by a amateur with great raw strength or a veteran channeler with mediocre strength? Do both factor in, or do neither? Like, if Moraine wove a complex pattern of air to entrap someone, would it be "tigher" and more "dense" than if Egwene were to have done it?

 

Does the channeler's raw strength have any bearing once a weave is tied off and left?

 

Severing weaves

 

Does anyone know the mechanics of how severing weaves works? Is there a certain weave of a certain combination of the elements that act like metaphysical scissors? If severing flows is a weave, is it a one-size fits all weave or does every weave have a "counter-weave". Namely, you have to know what you're severing to weave the right "sever". I think the later from the words Lanfear speaks toward the end of TDR when she severs rands flows of air holding her.

 

If a female channeler can sever a weave of Saidin without seeing it, by guessing what weave it is. I'm assuming a wielder of Saidar or Saidin could apply the same technique thing to weaves of the True Power?

 

Weave thickness and distance

 

We first learn about weave "thickness" in TSR when Elayne meets the Sea Folk Windfinder. Apparently Elayne is awestruck by the thickness of the Windfinders weaves. In the context of this encounter, I pictured a spiderman like weave extending out from the Windfinder and at some point branching into a web out across the clouds.

 

First, whats so special about a weave being thick? Can you weave a thin weaving and a thick weaving of the same thing? If so, how does that affect things? If not, is the thickness of the Sea Folks weave just a necessity of that particular weave? Are Aei Sedai up to that point not able to weave such thick weaves as well perhaps (Elayne makes it seem like she's never seen anyone do anything so thick)? Is that a raw strength thing or a discpline thing? Like, you learn the trick and practice and you can make thick weaves. Do weather related weaves typically require thick weaves?

 

Distance. I pictured the Windfinder's weave reaching off into the clouds. Perhaps I didn't visualize the scene right. But what is the limitations on distance? Does this relate to a person's raw strength, perhaps their skill at weaving, as well as perhaps the weave in question?

 

Intensities

It seems like the same weaves can have varying levels of intensity. Can they, or are different levels of intensity seperate weaves all together? I picture someone channeling an earthquake, they can put alitle strength into weave X or they can channel a torrent into weave X. Same weave, different intensities?

 

Maybe some of these are silly questions, but I just had to ask. I've been pondering toying with a WoT video game and I'm enamored with the idea of a channeler being able to see the flows.

 

Anyway, if you can answer any of my questions or have any of your own, feel free to share.[/b]

[RobertAlexWillis]

What does channeling look like to the channeler, visually speaking? My understanding is that flows of the power look like translucent threads of the various colors (corresponding to the elements). What color are they? Green-Earth, White-Air, Red-Fire, Blue-Water, Yellow-Spirit?

 

Here is RJ's response to that:

 

Week 9 Question: When a person channels, where do the flows appear to originate from? Do they extrude themselves somehow from the person's body, or do they seem to appear out of thin air in the channeler's general vicinity? What do the flows look like to a person who can channel? Are they colored, clear or indeterminate, smooth or rough, wispy or solid?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: To the channeler, the flows seem to originate in his or her very immediate vicinity, not to emanate from themselves, although to another channeler, those flows do seem to be emanating from the channeler. The latter is the actual case, as the One Power is passing through the channeler, one of the reasons for individual limits on how much of the Power a particular person can handle. (And you have seen characters react as if to a blow from having a flow snapped or cut.)

 

A channeler sees the flows as colored very faintly, according to which of the Five Powers is involved (red = Fire, Blue = Water, green = Earth, yellow = Air, white = Spirit), although the "feel" of the flows are also different to a channeler, so that a channeler can tell one from another without actually seeing them. (That is how someone can tell that somebody else has channeled, say, Fire and Earth, in their vicinity without seeing the flows.) It isn't a physical feel; you might almost as well say that they have different flavors. They appear to be smooth and nearly transparent, tinged with color.

 

from: http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=152

 

Do we know what happens when an undisciplined channeler blunders a weave trying to go too fast? Distasterous results? Harmless collapsing of the weave?

 

Weaves improperly made can do anything from collapse with no effect to snapping into something totally unexpected. It is totally unpredictable. This is why unweaving is so dangerous, with the removal of each thread there is the possibility of creating a new weave unless total control is maintained.

 

Raw strength is like how much paint you have in your bucket. Discipline is like your artistic ability.

 

Thats a pretty fair comparison.

 

Are all weaves created equal? Namely, does ones discpline equate to a "stronger" version of the weave? Is it harder to sever a weave or unravel a tight off weave if it was done by a amateur with great raw strength or a veteran channeler with mediocre strength? Do both factor in, or do neither? Like, if Moraine wove a complex pattern of air to entrap someone, would it be "tigher" and more "dense" than if Egwene were to have done it?

 

Both strength and skill factor in. When Moghedien tied off the shield she placed on Liandrin after Liandrin's attempt at Compulsion, it describes her tying of the knot in such a complex way that Liandrin could never find her way through it. By comparison, Rand was able to, relatively quickly, find his way through more than one knot tied on his shield at Dumai's Wells. In much the same way as cloth can be stregthened by either a finer weave or better material, a channeler's weave is improved by both strength and dexterity.

 

Does the channeler's raw strength have any bearing once a weave is tied off and left?

 

The simple answer is "yes".

 

Does anyone know the mechanics of how severing weaves works? Is there a certain weave of a certain combination of the elements that act like metaphysical scissors? If severing flows is a weave, is it a one-size fits all weave or does every weave have a "counter-weave". Namely, you have to know what you're severing to weave the right "sever". I think the later from the words Lanfear speaks toward the end of TDR when she severs rands flows of air holding her.

 

If a female channeler can sever a weave of Saidin without seeing it, by guessing what weave it is. I'm assuming a wielder of Saidar or Saidin could apply the same technique thing to weaves of the True Power?

 

I am not aware of a detailed description of this, but Rand's experiences with Lanfear are indicative. She was able to sever flows she could not see, because she knew what to expect. Spirit seems especially important in "slashing" weaves, as well as blocking someone from the Source. Again, both strength and dexterity are involved. If you know exactly where to strike, slashing a weave may require less effort/power. But if you are strong enough, you can probably just smash them too.

 

First, whats so special about a weave being thick? Can you weave a thin weaving and a thick weaving of the same thing? If so, how does that affect things? If not, is the thickness of the Sea Folks weave just a necessity of that particular weave? Are Aei Sedai up to that point not able to weave such thick weaves as well perhaps (Elayne makes it seem like she's never seen anyone do anything so thick)? Is that a raw strength thing or a discpline thing? Like, you learn the trick and practice and you can make thick weaves. Do weather related weaves typically require thick weaves?

 

Distance. I pictured the Windfinder's weave reaching off into the clouds. Perhaps I didn't visualize the scene right. But what is the limitations on distance? Does this relate to a person's raw strength, perhaps their skill at weaving, as well as perhaps the weave in question?

 

Both of these seem more related to strength than skill, especially distance. Channelers usually cannot channel where they cannot see, unless they are channeling at something directly affecting them, such as a shield. So, line of sight is one limitation. Additionally, there is a limit imposed by one's overall strength. Take the example of Rand, Aviendha, and Egwene on the small wooden tower during the battle with Couladin outside Cairhien. (see This Place, This Day, and The Lesser Sadness in The Fires of Heaven.)

 

It seems like the same weaves can have varying levels of intensity. Can they, or are different levels of intensity seperate weaves all together? I picture someone channeling an earthquake, they can put alitle strength into weave X or they can channel a torrent into weave X. Same weave, different intensities?

 

Intensity seems to me to be directly related to the strength of the channeler, or how much Power is used, if it is less than the channeler's maximum.

[Taishar Manetheren]

I think your post is very interesting and i have a question of my own about channeling.

 

When a male and a female channelers are linked, and lets say the male is in control of the flows, then he channels Saidin and Saidar, but he does it the way he learned. so if he tries to make a gateway using the Saidin way with Saidar does it work like it should? When Rand cleansed Saidin the aes sedai who were sent to examine the place said the weaving was nothing she ever saw, like they werent made by a woman.

 

Also, when they are linked does the male see Saidar weaving, does he see only his own or can he see Saidar coming from other channelers not linked with him?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Also, when they are linked does the male see Saidar weaving, does he see only his own or can he see Saidar coming from other channelers not linked with him?

 

A channeler who is linked apparently cannot see the flows of another channeler of the opposite sex, even while linked. For example, Eben had to warn Daigian that Halima/Aran'gar was holding saidin during the assualt on Rand while he was cleansing the taint. So even though Daigian was leading the circle, Eben had to warn her. Also, Rand did not see any of the flows of saidar that he was channeling, but he could feel their shape, since he was guiding them. I would imagine that a male in a linked circle would indeed only see the saidin that was being woven, but as a part of the circle, he might feel the other things going on (Eben's POV said he could feel Daigian drawing on the Power ... it didn't say which, so I assume it is both saidin and saidar.)

 

When a male and a female channelers are linked, and lets say the male is in control of the flows, then he channels Saidin and Saidar, but he does it the way he learned. so if he tries to make a gateway using the Saidin way with Saidar does it work like it should?

 

Saidin and saidar are still channeled with different techniques, even when all the flows are being controlled by one person in a linked circle. Rand's stream of consciousness addresses this during the cleansing of saidin. So, trying to make a female style "sameness" gateway with saidin would fail as much while linked as when not linked. And vice versa, with the male style "boring a hole" gateway. (This whole paragraph is very much just my opinion, since I haven't seen or read anything definitive on it, but it fits the other things we've seen.) That said, a man would handle saidar differently, even within it's own rules, than a woman would. And vice versa for women controlling saidin. Linked diversity of minds as well as the Power is what made weaving with both saidin and saidar more powerful as well as more versatile than either alone.

[Xeonicus]

Saidin and saidar are still channeled with different techniques, even when all the flows are being controlled by one person in a linked circle. Rand's stream of consciousness addresses this during the cleansing of saidin. So, trying to make a female style "sameness" gateway with saidin would fail as much while linked as when not linked. And vice versa, with the male style "boring a hole" gateway. (This whole paragraph is very much just my opinion, since I haven't seen or read anything definitive on it, but it fits the other things we've seen.) That said, a man would handle saidar differently, even within it's own rules, than a woman would. And vice versa for women controlling saidin. Linked diversity of minds as well as the Power is what made weaving with both saidin and saidar more powerful as well as more versatile than either alone.

 

Hmm... thats an interesting topic. To avoid having to go back, and hunt down that section in the books. How does the taint on saidin affect a link between a man and women. If the man is steering does the women notice the taint. If the women is guiding does she notice the taint? Think it would drive her insane eventually if she linked with tained men enough?

 

Linking is definitely an interesting topic. Say four Aei Sedai link in a circle. I wonder what the strands of power look like in the circle. Does anyone other than the "navigator" have to put any effort in, other than drawing on the power. I guess they sort of funnel their power through some kind of spirit wrought links to the "navigator".

 

Male and female linking now... Robert, you say a male weaving with a female linked will "feel" the strands of saidar enough to guide them in the weaving, but not be able to see them. Thats interesting, because normally it seems the man couldn't even tell that saidar was their at all. Maybe its some manifestation of the link where the women is aware of the strand of saidar and almost telepathically (without knowing it) communicates this information through the link to the man and he can instruct its movement. Still a man being able to guide saidar at all seems bizarre.

 

Then there is the whole different nature between saidar and saidin. Say you want to weave a gateway. There is the saidar way of doing it, and the saidin way of doing it. If you are a man linked with a women is there an entirely different way of making a gateway that you may not know since you're working with both sides of the power? Or... do you have the choice between using just saidin or just saidar when you're linked? What I mean is.... Weave X is a gateway with saidin, weave Y is a gateway with saidar (if I understand correctly), is there then weave Z to make a gateway with saidar and saidin combined?

[Gentled Ben]

Weave X is a gateway with saidin, weave Y is a gateway with saidar (if I understand correctly), is there then weave Z to make a gateway with saidar and saidin combined?

 

If there is, I bet it's called a Portal Stone.

[Luckers]

I doubt that. According to Verin the Portal Stones work based on utilizing inherent metaphysical lines of power, and operate on a mathematical principal she called the numbers of chaos. It was that knowledge, not a linked circle, that allowed for their creation.

[TheDiceAgain...]

Hmm... thats an interesting topic. To avoid having to go back, and hunt down that section in the books. How does the taint on saidin affect a link between a man and women. If the man is steering does the women notice the taint. If the women is guiding does she notice the taint? Think it would drive her insane eventually if she linked with tained men enough?

 

Yes, on both counts, especially if she is guiding. In Elza's PoV (Winter's Heart, With the Choedan Kal), both she and Merise experience the Taint and feel like throwing up when each of them has control of the link. Also, there is the example of the male a'dam and Moghedien's (I think) explanation that while you can gain control over a man with it, the madness will seap into the woman wearing the bracelet, although using both will lessen the effect by sharing it between the two women.

[SinisterDeath]

When it comes to 'severing' weaves, I don't think there is any 'weaves' involved really. Except when you counter.

 

I think of it like this...

You can control your 'threads' that you are able to draw on from the power. Ie you send out 4 or 6 threads of fire from your self. You then weave it into fire. I think the weaving its self is along the lines of how far apart the weaves are from each other, and how they intersect.. So, for instace 4 parrallel fire weaves = nothing, but 4 intersecting fires = a spark. Add 2 intersecting Air weaves, you got a fire...

Turn those seemingly parrallel fire threads with a seemilngly parrallel air thread... and you got a fire ball.. I say parrallel, as it might appear that way, but they probably intersect with the intended target. The angle between each thread, could detremine its strength of fire, as well as the number of threads.... But this is only speculation..

Whats this have to do with severing weaves though?

I think, that when it comes to severing weaves, that the channeler can only have complete control of one thread at any given time. other wise, they are more or less blindly throwing out threads of the power into a shape it should look like. So they escentially 'imagine' 'this is what it should look like' so they put each thread in a rough shape of what it looks like, then fine tunes each thread.. And since you are doing this with your mind, and not your hands, it goes relatively fast...

The catch is, since you can only control 1 single thread with aboslute control. Theoretically, another channeller, could mess with your threads. Or 'sever a weave'. After all if your thread looks like 4 intersecting lines at 90 degree angles... and they take that one thread and move it 2 degrees to the left, all of a sudden your little fire, has turned into nothing.

We know this can be done, simply because of there excercises. They stop 'controlling' a weave, and pass it onto another channeler, and they 'feed the flames.

Escentially the weave gets 'left in place', similar to being tied off but not as its still being fed by a channeller. They just stop the flow of threads, and another picks them up. The only difference wtih severing a weave, is instead of taking up the flow of power to the weave, you can mess with the individual threads... or better yet, take complete control of one thread, since the channeller in question can only keep one at a time. *relateively* and then you, stop its flow... or multiple flows...

 

Fire balls for instance are tied off, or 'left to unravvle' so to speak, so they are much easier to sever, then something like... a weave being maintained.. with complete concentration...

Now some of that info might not be 100% accurate, but I think the general idea is correct. I doubt 1 thread from one channeler, can truelly interact 100% with another channeler. Its simply like, the threads only take up the smallest nonmessurable unit of distance there is, and getting two threads from 2 different people to completely collide with each other would be like throwing a rock at a specific grain of sand on a beach.. The closest thing you could do is start threading up a weave, severe theres, then unleash your fireball of death.

[Xeonicus]

When it comes to 'severing' weaves, I don't think there is any 'weaves' involved really. Except when you counter.

 

I think of it like this...

You can control your 'threads' that you are able to draw on from the power. Ie you send out 4 or 6 threads of fire from your self. You then weave it into fire. I think the weaving its self is along the lines of how far apart the weaves are from each other, and how they intersect.. So, for instace 4 parrallel fire weaves = nothing, but 4 intersecting fires = a spark. Add 2 intersecting Air weaves, you got a fire...

Turn those seemingly parrallel fire threads with a seemilngly parrallel air thread... and you got a fire ball.. I say parrallel, as it might appear that way, but they probably intersect with the intended target. The angle between each thread, could detremine its strength of fire, as well as the number of threads.... But this is only speculation..

Whats this have to do with severing weaves though?

I think, that when it comes to severing weaves, that the channeler can only have complete control of one thread at any given time. other wise, they are more or less blindly throwing out threads of the power into a shape it should look like. So they escentially 'imagine' 'this is what it should look like' so they put each thread in a rough shape of what it looks like, then fine tunes each thread.. And since you are doing this with your mind, and not your hands, it goes relatively fast...

The catch is, since you can only control 1 single thread with aboslute control. Theoretically, another channeller, could mess with your threads. Or 'sever a weave'. After all if your thread looks like 4 intersecting lines at 90 degree angles... and they take that one thread and move it 2 degrees to the left, all of a sudden your little fire, has turned into nothing.

We know this can be done, simply because of there excercises. They stop 'controlling' a weave, and pass it onto another channeler, and they 'feed the flames.

Escentially the weave gets 'left in place', similar to being tied off but not as its still being fed by a channeller. They just stop the flow of threads, and another picks them up. The only difference wtih severing a weave, is instead of taking up the flow of power to the weave, you can mess with the individual threads... or better yet, take complete control of one thread, since the channeller in question can only keep one at a time. *relateively* and then you, stop its flow... or multiple flows...

 

Fire balls for instance are tied off, or 'left to unravvle' so to speak, so they are much easier to sever, then something like... a weave being maintained.. with complete concentration...

Now some of that info might not be 100% accurate, but I think the general idea is correct. I doubt 1 thread from one channeler, can truelly interact 100% with another channeler. Its simply like, the threads only take up the smallest nonmessurable unit of distance there is, and getting two threads from 2 different people to completely collide with each other would be like throwing a rock at a specific grain of sand on a beach.. The closest thing you could do is start threading up a weave, severe theres, then unleash your fireball of death.

 

Hmmm... then how does that theory account for a female channeler severing slows of air from a male? They can't see the flows to manipulate them or mess them up. Also, from how severing is described, it sounds very much like the weaves are "snapped" and the channeler of those weaves recoils, as if they were pulling on a taut line and it snapped.

 

Can a saidar wielder mess with saidin weaves, even if they can't "see" them. Can they feel them?

[Gentled Ben]

They can certainly feel their effects, if not the actual threads of the weaves themselves (for example, the needles of pain that try to pierce Rand's void on the docks of Cairhien while he battles Lanfear), but I think Robert has it right; the channeler just needs to have a reasonably sound assumption of what's being woven, or channelled at them, in order to sever the flows. Lanfear severed Rand's flows of Air in the Stone, as Robert mentioned, and Rand severed the flows that Lanfear was using to hurt Egwene and Aviendha on the docks. Neither could see what the other was doing, but it wasn't necessary to see it in order to slice it. They just had to understand what was being woven.

I've never gotten the impression that it's anything like "messing" with one thread of Power; it's always seemed like taking a pair of scissors to a taut rubber band.

 

As far as controlling numerous threads as opposed to one individual thread at a time, Egwene makes note in KoD that she can divide her flows 14 ways, something that few sisters can do. She's making seven different balls of Fire at the same time, and putting seven rings around each one, all the while juggling the entire mess of them like a gleeman. It seems to me that that would require control of more than one thread at a time. When Lews Therin throws down in KoD as well, in that wonderful "deathgates" scene, he's weaving a whole bunch of different flows all at once. He's spinning six different Blossoms of Fire at a time while he's spinning Deathgates, which he's also tying off, while he's (after Rand cooperates) weaving 100 Arrows of Fire at a time in rapid succession.

[SinisterDeath]

Well, I did say what I said might not be entirely accurate, but more of a way of explaining it.. Exactly how do you 'cut' something that in somecases, barely even exists? One way to look at it is like taking partial control of a weave, then simply 'shutting it down'. Or it could be litterally taking a pair of metaphysical sicsors and cutting the flow from the channeler, to the weave.

 

As for the # of flows a person can handel.. Well, I think its safe to say the average channeler, can only control a few, where as the great ones, can control houndreds of threads at a time.. That goes along with the idea that part of the strength of power isn't physical, but mental, or metaphysical.

 

Look at it this way..

There is one thing all 'great' channelers have in common. Its not raw strength, hell what sets them apart from everyone else is how they learn weaves, and how Fast they can.

The average everyday channeler takes Days or even YEARS just learning one weave.

Then you get people like Egwene, Nyneave, Elayne, Rand, Lanfear, LTT, Ishamale. THey all have one thing in common. They can learn a new weave almost instantly. Requires no 'studying'. Though, they require a bit of practice to become efficient.

Escentially what makes them so good at channelering *there speed* isn't just found in channelers. We see this in Galad. The people who taught Galad to use the sword, were 'shocked' at how fast he picked it up. And since we know that galad is rands half brother... This either means 2 things.

1. He can channel to but doesn't know it. *probably unlikely being hes a good 5-10 years older then rand*

2. They share a common attribute, possibly genetic hard to tell, but its escentially being a 'fast learner'.

But then again, it could be the fact that Rand and Galad both knew of the 'oneness' or the flame and the void, much sooner then others.. However that can be easilly rebuttled by the fact that egwene/nyneave didn't know of those excercises.. Yet they are fast learners.... Yet there is one thing those channelers whom can learn fast and others don't have in common.. Something the aes sedia call the 'spark'. The spark I don't believe is found in just channelers, but pretty much anyone who excells at picking up things at that rate. Galad for instance I think has the 'spark'. Where as people like Moiraine, doesn't have the spark.. Even though at the time her and Suiane were the youngest Aes Sedia to be raised.. as well as Suiane by far one of the youngest Amyrlian for several decades.. if not ever *Before egwene of course*......

 

I'll shut up now before I start ranting about elida. :P

[Gentled Ben]

Well, I did say what I said might not be entirely accurate, but more of a way of explaining it..

Yeah, I wasn't attacking your post. Sorry if it came across that way.

Exactly how do you 'cut' something that in somecases, barely even exists?

The same way you would "cut" anything else...with an edge.

Or it could be litterally taking a pair of metaphysical sicsors and cutting the flow from the channeler, to the weave.

Yeah, that's basically what I meant. What comes to my mind is the "sharp" shield of Spirit which is used to sever a channeler from the Source. Something like that, only directed at the flows rather than the connection to the Source.

As for the # of flows a person can handel.. Well, I think its safe to say the average channeler, can only control a few, where as the great ones, can control houndreds of threads at a time..

Yet still, Egwene makes note of the fact that few can divide their flows 14 ways like she can. I don't know if dividing flows and controlling threads is the same thing, but I suspect that they're at least similar.

The average everyday channeler takes Days or even YEARS just learning one weave.

Yeah, when they're brand new at it, but not later on, after they've developed some skill. It's like learning the guitar or something...at first, the student struggles to place their fingers properly. After a little while though, the average, everyday guitarist can copy average, everyday chords, licks, etc. as they see them for the first time. Trust me; I'm an average, everyday guitarist. I know.

Then you get people like Egwene, Nyneave, Elayne, Rand, Lanfear, LTT, Ishamale. THey all have one thing in common. They can learn a new weave almost instantly.

We haven't seen Lanfear, LTT, or Ishamael learn any new weaves, so we really don't know what their personal learning curves might be.

And since we know that galad is rands half brother... This either means 2 things.

1. He can channel to but doesn't know it. *probably unlikely being hes a good 5-10 years older then rand*

2. They share a common attribute, possibly genetic hard to tell, but its escentially being a 'fast learner'.

Yeah, it's probably unlikely that Galad can channel.

Judging from Cadsuane's progress with him, Rand seems slow at learning manners, at least. :P

The spark I don't believe is found in just channelers, but pretty much anyone who excells at picking up things at that rate. Galad for instance I think has the 'spark'.

The "spark" is just found in channelers. It's what differentiates those who will channel whether they want to or not from those who must be taught. Those with the spark might still prove to be slow learners. Galad does not have the spark, or else he would have channeled by now. Like you pointed out, he's older than Rand.

I get what you're saying about channelers not having a corner on the fast-learner market though, and I agree that strength in the power and skill are not the same thing.

Where as people like Moiraine, doesn't have the spark..

Moiraine had the spark; she learned to channel using her little, blue stone as a focus for the power before she ever went to the Tower for formal training. Again, the spark is something that natural channelers share; it does not mean "fast learner."

I'll shut up now before I start ranting about elida.

By all means, rant all you want; I don't like Elaida. :)

I don't mean to "fisk" your post and sound snippy; there were just a lot of points I wanted to respond to, and that seemed the easiest way. I like the way your mind works; I just disagree with some of what you're saying.

[SinisterDeath]

By all means, rant all you want; I don't like Elaida.

I don't mean to "fisk" your post and sound snippy; there were just a lot of points I wanted to respond to, and that seemed the easiest way. I like the way your mind works; I just disagree with some of what you're saying.

 

hehe, well you didn't come out as snippy or attacking my post. I was just trying to elaborate what I had said yesterday during the middle of the night :P

 

As for Moiraine.. I coulda swore she was one of the nonsparky channelers. :P

[yolindamo]

Interesting concept that one of the things that goes into making one a good channeller is not just strength in the power, but intelligence as well. How quickly you can pick up on things and figure out things. I also have another theory.

 

I think one of the reasons new channellers in the books like Egwene, Elayne, Rand, ect. are able to figure out new weaves and lost weaves is that they are young and therefore fearless. Older channellers are afraid of being burned out or having a weave go haywire on them, but these kids feel indestructable. This is very realistic by the way; remember this post is coming from someone with experience teaching at both the high school and college level. I know how kids that age think, "Nothing bad can happen to me, I'm young." Ignorance makes you brave. Sometimes the outcome is good sometimes it is bad.

 

The other thing is that these people are desperate. They know TG is coming and that they need to be ready to fight the DO. This makes learning new weaves and remembering lost ones even more essential. That is the other thing that will make people brave.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The other thing is that these people are desperate.

 

I think that one is the more relevant of the two. There have always been young channelers, but the approach of Tarmon Gaidon kinds puts the screws on.

[Xeonicus]

The other thing is that these people are desperate.

 

I think that one is the more relevant of the two. There have always been young channelers, but the approach of Tarmon Gaidon kinds puts the screws on.

 

True true... do you die messing with the One power, or do you die because you didn't mess with it and the DO wins TG?