[Basic Mafia] Fiddleton - Game Over

[GMaster479]

Tayla. I guess my last posts weren't clear enough for you. Let me clear it up so you can stop trying to save yourself by questioning my ambiguity

 

I am Finder. You are scum. I did what I did the day before for a reason and it was to figure out who to target. That person was you

[Mav]

GM, I'm still curious, why did you lean towards mynd yesterday when you claimed that he was scum yesterday and now you reveal yourself as a finder, again?

[Tiinker]

I KNOW that he couldn't have viewed me last night

 

Gonna need an explanation here aswell.

[Talya]

Quite easily Tiinks...I know I'm not Mafia, so I KNOW that he couldn't have viewed me last night. I actually thought he was the Finder yesterday hence why I believed him about Mynd. He hinted enough. Then Mynd turned out to be Town. The mafia know that today is an important day, so he comes out straight ways (as he did yesterday) keeping up the pretence trying to control the game with his again half claim. He knows that he has to push this lynch through and they have one, so I was just waiting for him to claim, to know that he is Mafia. I though he was going to just do half reveals and then deny it like yesterday and thought maybe it was his play style. (a bit like Mynd)

 

Anyway because I know he is lying VOTE GM

[danneric]

But did he post anything saying he viewed mynd? thats the question. if he didn't then it could have been a mistake but if he did the i will watch him VERY closely to see if something happens.

[Locke]

It makes sense that the scum would want to lynch Mynd, eh Talya?

[GMaster479]

I never said I viewed Mynd. Go look if you want. I just said I saw Talya. I couldn't claim Finder because I hadn't found a mafia member just yet. I just needed to hint that I did so I could find targets to spy for tonight. I agree with Locke on his current 3 mafia members. But just so we can be sure to get one, vote Tayla

[Mav]

Zzz, it sounds 50/50 to me.

 

Lock, GM and deadly could work together. Mind that deadly could be either town or mafia at this point.

[danneric]

just for future quotes. i declare im town.

[Phelix]

Tayla. I guess my last posts weren't clear enough for you. Let me clear it up so you can stop trying to save yourself by questioning my ambiguity

 

I am Finder. You are scum. I did what I did the day before for a reason and it was to figure out who to target. That person was you

 

First off, I just got out of the hospital, so my post might not make sense... or I might not see the logic you're pushing... but GM, it looks like you're trying to convince us all that you threw Mynd under the bus, deliberately bringing us to a win today or lose the game situation, just so you could find targets to view as Finder?

 

Frankly, I'm not sure I buy it. You were the main push behind lynching Mynd because you said you were sure he was scum, whether or not you claimed to View him. Mynd definitely thought Talya was scum, and I could easily see a good scum player taking Mynd's off base target and directing the rest of us at that target to lynch them.

 

Right now, the way I see it, you pushed us to lynch a townie instead of lynching yourself (when that same townie was pushing for your lynch), and now you're pushing for us to lynch someone else. I don't know if I trust you enough to follow you again. A large part of my mind says that I should follow my gut and vote for you... lynching Mynd showed that you were willing to kill Townies, and at this stage in the game, who is willing to sacrifice a Townie? Scum.

 

I need a reason to believe your claims, so until I have one... Vote GM.

[Niniel]

This is a difficult decission. Who do we lynch today? If we choose the wrong person scum probably will win (if they have a sucesfull nk). Ok, just stating the obvious...

 

GMaster has claimed cop. Unfortinatly we can´t know if it is a true claim. If this was earlier in the game we could just lynch Talya and then see if GMaster was right or not. But since it´s this late in the game we can´t risk to lynch someone "just to see" if GMaster is right. If he is scum, well then the maffia will win this. The same goes for Talya. She says that she know GMaster is scum but we can´t check this either. So I guess that at this moment we can´t be sure of GMasters or Talyas innocens. So the question is who is most reliable?

 

Yesterday GMaster hinted several times that he was cop. He stated that Mynd was scum. No, he never told us that he had viewed Mynd but the way he posted with a) hinting on being a cop and b) that he was convinced Mynd was scum, was with that intention I believe. Yesterday he was totaly sure that Mynd was scum. Today he says something else. First he says that his back up plan (if Mynd turned out to be town) was to find scum among those who lynched Mynd. (# 312) Later on he says that his real plan was to find scum on that lynch. (#326) So here we see that he goes from 1. Mynd is scum 2. He had a back up plan 3. The plan was study the lynch. I don´t find this convincing at all. It sounds like he is trying to make something up as he goes. I also notice that he threathens Tiinker when he votes GMaster. (#314)

 

(Sorry I can´t multiquote right now.)

 

Both Locke and Mav has made a list of suspects. Lockes first list was GMaster, Talya and Mav. Now he has changed it to Tiinker, Talya and Mav. I guess Locke believes in GMaster since he claims to have viewed Locke as town. But has he? Have we any proof? There are four options I think.

1. GMaster is cop and have found Locke town.

2. GMaster is scum and trying to hide his teammate Locke.

3. Locke is scum but not GMaster. Of course he won´t vote GMaster who says he is town.

4. Locke is town and believs that GMaster has viewed him, but that isn´t true.

 

I see why Locke wouldn´t whant to vote GMaster in any of these options.

 

Mavs says a list could be Locke, GMaster and maybe Deadly. Maybe he see that he is on Lockes list and thereby draw this conclusion?

 

Myself - no I haven´t got any list. I really don´t trust anyone right now. Have I forgot to look closer on Talya? No, I have not. Early in the game she posted without saying much. This could be a sign of scum trying to look town (I know I have been accused for that). Then she got attacked by Mynd who thought GMaster was scummy but blamed Talya for that. This was taken totaly out of the air I think. Just Mynd again trying to claim a certain player scum and look for reactions. So until GMaster claimed that he had viewed Talya I didn´t found her really scummy. Now she defends herself by saying that she isn´t scum and thereby know that GMaster is scum. Again, we´re back where I started. There isn´t any hard proof that says that GMaster or Talya is innocent/scum. I have to take into account what I have seen/felt earlier in the game. That is why for now I will ]vote GMaster[/b].

[Niniel]

Damn. New try. Vote GMaster.

[Tiinker]

Quite easily Tiinks...I know I'm not Mafia, so I KNOW that he couldn't have viewed me last night.

 

Anyway because I know he is lying VOTE GM

 

Damn, was hoping for a more concrete reason. I won't be changing my vote though unless he can come up with something good.

[Talya]

sorry Tiinks. the fact that he kept almost hinting but not really today made me suspicious. So i wanted him to see what he did when pressured. That's when he came out and actually said. And at that point I knew for definite...if he hadn't and had denied it all again like yesterday, then I would have not known, but be suspicious of him, like I said it could have been his playstyle. But it is a playstyle that could ruin it for town, if that is what he was.

 

Now he said he didn't come out yesterday and say he was finder because he had found Town...But why hint and all the cloak and dagger stuff yesterday if he didn't want to reveal because he didn't have a mafia player...I think that he got himself in a loop and the only way to get out of it all today was to do this again. I'm sure he thought he was on the chopping black after yesterday, so had to come in and do this.

[GMaster479]

Guys really. The game right now is simple.

 

I know Talya is Mafia. I did hint at various times yesterday that I didn't spy Mynd but that I was the Finder. I didn't want to become a target for the baddie kill or the saver especially having not found anyone concretely. As TinaHel did point out I spied Locke Night 1 which gave me reason to believe that Mynd was scum because he focused in on Mynd late in the day when people started jumping on the Deadly bandwagon.

 

What you all are doing is killing the only person who can win this game for you.

 

@Tayla: Not a bad defense for a baddie. This would be a good move on my part. Here is my defense. CAN ANYONE ELSE CLAIM FINDER?

 

Because this style of play reveals everyone's role we know that the Finder is still out there. Therefore if I am claiming the role of someone who is definitely alive, it would behoove the actual Finder to denounce my claim. I think you were going to try and claim Finder soon as a defense so let me stop you in your tracks and say the following for everyone to take note of.

 

I am Finder and the Day 2 lynch has given me the identities of the three people who I wish to spy and who are probably scum.

[Tiinker]

@Tayla: Not a bad defense for a baddie. This would be a good move on my part. Here is my defense. CAN ANYONE ELSE CLAIM FINDER?

 

That's what we're waiting for. Still plenty of time till Monday.

[Niniel]

@Tayla: Not a bad defense for a baddie. This would be a good move on my part. Here is my defense. CAN ANYONE ELSE CLAIM FINDER?

 

That's what we're waiting for. Still plenty of time till Monday.

 

Yes, indeed.

[Niniel]

GMaster - can you tell us why you choosed Locke and Talya?

[GMaster479]

I think I already did?

 

Locke because I wanted to know whether to trust Mynd or not as that is who he was gunning for at the end of Day 1 while everyone jumped on Deadly

 

Talya because she was one of the people voting for Mynd yesterday

[Phelix]

See, GMaster, right now, it looks a lot like you're trying to bully everyone who voted with you against Mynd. You lead a lynch on Mynd knowing that if it failed, you would be called out as Scum next... and now, you're trying to say that everyone who voted with you is a target for your scum-dar.

 

It's a really neat trick you're pulling to take the heat off yourself.

 

Maybe the real finder hasn't viewed any scum yet themselves. We are at do or die as far as winning goes, so if the real finder hadn't viewed any scum, only townies, revealing themselves when there's a false claimant would only paint a target on their back. If we go through with your lynch on Talya, only to find out she's town again, the Mafia win if they can get their NK through, which they will unless the Healer is lucky and protects the right person. So, if the real finder came forward now, without any proof... well, it could easily go against them.

 

The fact that your only real argument is that you planned to use Mynd's lynch to see whom to view for scum is really weak sauce, and comes across as retro-active reasoning. If you thought Mynd was Scum because he attacked Locke, then why would you think there would be scum on his lynch? I know several of us said lynching Mynd was our test to see if we could trust you, and you failed that test. I can understand Locke wanting to vote with you, because you claim he's Town... but even that's a weak reasoning. The Mafia know who the townies are, because they know who isn't mafia.

 

I think based on your lynch of Mynd, and your new attempts to point suspicion at the people who were supporting your lynch, we really should lynch you.

[GMaster479]

You make a good point Phelix. It is in a sense retroactive reasoning. And I do understand that there could have been scum on the three people who voted for me. However two of those people are dead, and the other one is confirmed town. So honestly...who else is there to view?

 

I think that after Talya is lynched today I will have proven that what I say is true

[Phelix]

GMaster, if we lynch Talya and find out she's town it's game over. We don't have the luxury of being able to "test" you again. We already followed your leadership once, and found out you were pointing us at a Townie, at this point in the game, I don't think we can trust you anymore. You refused to claim Finder before we lynched Mynd, but now that we're stuck in the win or die moment, you're trying to push us every which way you can. Now you claim Finder. Now you claim to have viewed Locke. Now you have claimed to view Talya. Now you say you have a list of potential scum to look at. Now you say we should test you again.

 

Personally, I think the fact that you're sitting at L-1 has you nervous, so you're pushing for us to lynch another townie to give the win over to the scum. On Day Two I was willing to test a claim like this, but now it doesn't make sense to blindly trust someone who's already lead us into lynching one townie.

 

You are right that the bulk of the remaining players were on the lynch that you lead us to, so yes, the finder will find some scum there. Though, if we don't assume that you are telling the truth, but instead assume you are not because you already mislead us once, your "viewing" of Locke no longer stands. He could be Town, or he could be your Scum partner that you've deliberately labeled Town to throw us off the scent. Heck, he could be Town and you were trying to use him as bait to distract the rest of us. Locke becomes a WIFOM.

 

You, on the other hand, have demonstrated that you are unreliable. It's like we watched you put the poison in the wine, but instead of making us look away while you switched their locations, you just told us to pick which cup to drink from. Our obvious choice is to pick the wine you didn't put the poison in. For this game, our obvious choice is to lynch you.

[GMaster479]

Well tell me Phelix, do YOU know of any CONFIRMED scum? If so lets lynch them since OBVIOUSLY I don't know what I am doing. Are you claiming Finder? Is that why you are going after me so hard? Lynching me will only confirm what I said Day 2, which was something along the lines of if you lynch me the town will lose. I have said everything I had to say and I compel anyone who hasn't voted to read what I have said and vote Talya

[Phelix]

GMaster, you lead us into lynching a townie bringing us to the point where we're one lynch away from losing... yeah, I guess an argument could be made that you don't know what you're doing.

 

In Mafia claiming the Town will lose if they lynch you is often seen as a threat... bringing it up again doesn't really help your argument.

 

I think our only course that makes sense, as the Town, is to lynch someone we've already tested and found false. You pushed so hard on Mynd, you were sure he was Scum, hinting away at your alleged role, and we voted with you... on the assumption that doing so would help make it clear whether you were Town or Scum, and I think it did. I think it would be very foolish to trust you again. If we lynch Talya, there's a better than 50% chance she's Town... if she is Town, there's a 20% chance she's the Doc.

 

I'm sorry, but after what you did with Mynd, I can't see any reason to trust your claims about Talya now. The only difference between how you treated them is that now you are claiming to be the Finder. I think it's extremely convenient for you to suddenly have found a Scum, just when you need to take the heat off yourself.

 

As for why I am pushing so hard... it's simple. I said I would when we lynched Mynd. I haven't seen a single bit of evidence for why I should trust you now, and I've seen plenty as to why you are most likely scum.

 

So, my vote stands.

[Locke]

Nobody cast the hammer. Actually, somebody should just unvote in case a mafia swoops in for the easy kill.

 

If GMaster is lying, let the true Finder come forth. If no one does, I propose we lynch Talya. Since we can't afford to lynch another Townie, it's a moot point about keeping the Finder secret. With the Healer still in play, it wouldn't be too great a risk anyway, and not only that, but we'd also have a clear confirmed scum, which is just as get as GMaster's Finding of Talya.