LT instead of Rand

[Wantanswers]

Rand is the Dragon soul just as much as he is Lews Therin. More, you might say. So I'm not sure why you think that gives us another option.

I'm pleased you're no longer just offending me if you don't agree with me and even showed some curiousity about my reasoning. I'm aware I didn't give any argument, although I surely have some. I thought you could make your own conclusions after you read Jordans answer and considdered it. So, for the sake of the discussion, I'll post the essential part of the answer again.

 

"It" is born in other Ages, but in a non-Dragon incarnation, to suit the pattern of that Age.

 

1. This answer shows us that the Ranterin soul wasn't always incarnated as the Dragon. They are seperate enteties. If the Dragon and his soul were one, they should have been reborn as the Dragon with every incarnation.

2. Rand, and we can assume Lews Terin, hasn't always been the Dragon. Rand became the Dragon after he proclaimed himself as such in Falme, by raising the Dragonbanner.

4. Rand didn't get another soul when he became the Dragon

3. The pattern spins out the Dragon when he is needed. After the DO is defeated, the pattern doesn't need the Dragon any more.

 

Yes, Rand is the Dragon. Now. But the Dragon was "born" about 20 years after Rand was born. Isn't it possible that the Dragon "dies" before Rand dies. Would Rhand have another soul after the Dragon has "died".

[Luckers]

You're assuming that the others suffering from past life memories would not have similar motives. Of course, their motives would probably not be as strong as Rand's, but neither would their certainty about those memories be as strong. Rand has constant reminders of the fact that his memories are real, but he still denies them.

 

Semirhage said naught about past-life memories. She spoke only of the voices of past lives, and their respective realities and insanity inducing instabilities.

 

From there I make no assumptions. They can have whatever motives they like towards the voices that talk in their heads.

 

You could say the same about the real theory, or your own theory, which is quite different from what real'ers have argued over the years. But the proof of the construct theory was in the fact that Rand had to stop denying that Lews Therin's memories were his own memories before those memories could be fully integrated. That shows clearly (despite the tons of hints previous) that the denial was a significant part of the delusion.

 

You could say that, though the realists are also supported by Semirhage and the concept of Occam's Razor, but you can say what you wish.

 

As for the rest, you say tomato, I say Rand stopped pushing away Lews Therin's very distinct and real personality, allowing for both of their personalities to intergrate into the greater cohesion of the soul, thus ending the battle between the two facet personalities for control of the soul and restoring balance to the soul itself. Which is, by the way, precisely what Semirhage said was needed to resolve the manifestation of a past lifes voice.

 

But yes, you are right, Rand's refusal to admit he and Lews Therin were the same was the core of the problem. They are, after all, one soul.

 

Just the concept of 'transferral' is against the concept that they were never two men.

 

They were two facet personalities. Distinct--which was the problem--and thus capable of transferring things between them. But they were always one soul, one man.

[yoniy0]

Bah, I say. And Codswallop.

Funny you should say so, because KoD was what sold me on the construct theory. Before, I never gave the issue much thought, assuming the voice to be real.

I think you don't really got a feel for what the construct theory means. For me, Occam's razor works in our favor. No need to conjure up some mechanism by which past lives can retain their identity and will-force postmortem (though I admit Semirhage's words give you cause to do so if you interpret them a certain way). Instead, in some rare cases of insanity (as per Semirhages remarks) the madman would actually hear the voice of a man who lived in the past (rather than just hearing voices, which is a more common form of insanity). For me, that's what she meant by "real". The "reintegration" she claimed is the only way to avert his insanity isn't of two distinct identities inside of him, in my opinion, rather a reintegration with reality, accepting that he developed a dual-personality disorder (please excuse my terminology, you know I'm no psychologist/psychiatrist) and coming to peace with having the memories of past lives (and - perhaps more importantly - with the way he's been feeling and what he had suffered).

[Luckers]

I disagree--and this is perhaps my greatest problem with the Construct Theory--Occam's Razor.

 

Put it this way. We have Semirhage, who states that hearing the voice of a past life is a natural form of madness in the world of the wheel. Then we have Rand, who hears a voice that thinks of itself as Lews Therin, and has accurate memories of Lews Therin's life.

 

The simplest explanation is that Rand is undergoing precisely what Semirhage describes--hearing the voice of a past life. Occam's Razor.

 

The Construct Theory offers no evidence why we should dismiss Semirhage's statement and conclude that Rand has merely gained access to the memories of Lews Therin, and that in a bout of stunning psychological acrobatics has then constructed an elaborate personality to act as the mouth-piece of those memories.

[yoniy0]

You still don't get it (I'm not saying you have to agree, but you need to see where I'm coming from). I don't discount what Semirhage says. I agree that Rand exhibits the exact same form of madness she describes. I simply put forward that it's still just that - madness - and not the manifestation of a magically ever-existing ambient bundle of identity and willpower that is LTT. It is in this that I feel Occam's razor supports my position over yours.

[Luckers]

You still don't get it (I'm not saying you have to agree, but you need to see where I'm coming from). I don't discount what Semirhage says. I agree that Rand exhibits the exact same form of madness she describes. I simply put forward that it's still just that - madness - and not the manifestation of a magically ever-existing ambient bundle of identity and willpower that is LTT. It is in this that I feel Occam's razor supports my position over yours.

 

I did actually get it--perhaps I did not explain my response very well. My point is that it is in the suggestion that we need add anything further to explain Semirhage's comments that the Construct Theory falls apart. The suggetsion in your tone, that the existence of this magical bundle of identity is in someway problematic, or convuluted, is unsustained by evidence--Semirhage states it occurs. Rand's symptoms fit it exactly. So where is the problem in concluding it occurs exactly as Semirhage stated?

 

Is there any evidence to suggest that this bundle of identity should not exist? No. Therefore that Semirhage said it exists, and manifests to cause madness from time to time requires no extra information. It's a simple clean explanation for Rand's symptoms--the simplest, and the cleanest.

 

Indeed, in suggesting it doesn't exist you grow convuluted, because then you have to explain the voice and the memories seperately. Semirhage's explanation is one clean step. Yours is two seperate steps with a rickety bridge constructed between them. And all this without a single shred of evidence that there is any need for such a convuluted game of thought to explain the situation.

 

Semirhage states that Rand hears the voice of Lews Therin's facet personality of the soul--so why should we take that as anything other than face value when Rand does indeed hear a voice that speaks with all the authority, opinion, knowledge and nature of Lews Therin?

 

Is it not Occam's Razor to conclude she is correct? That the personality remains viable, and occaisionally manifests resulting in a struggle between personalities that can cause madness? There is no evidence against her comments. No reason to question them. It is, after all, precisely what Rand seems to be going through.

[yoniy0]

The suggetsion in your tone, that the existence of this magical bundle of identity is in someway problematic, or convuluted, is unsustained by evidence--Semirhage states it occurs.

Finally, I understand where it is that our disagreement stems from. I disagree completely with what you claim Semirhage says. For accuracy purposes, I'll include the original:

"He's insane," [...] "You know of people who hear voices in their heads? Somethimes, very rarely, the voices they hear are the voices of past lives. [...] Clearly, he is hearing Lews Therin's voice. It makes no difference that the voice is real, however. In fact, that makes his situation worse. Even Graendal usually failed to achieve reintegration with someone who heard a real voice [...]"

Let's break this down:

First, she says he hears the voice of his past life (as LTT), as occurs in some rare cases. She doesn't say that the voice has s separate identity; simply that Rand hears it, as indeed he undoubtedly does.

Second, she says that the voice is real, which is the central reason you interpret the lot the way you do, I take it. But I suggest that the entire sentence makes it likelier that my position is more accurate. She says that the voice being real makes it that much so more difficult to heal his affliction by achieving reintegration. What does she mean by that? I think that to truly understand we need to ask ourselves why that is. The simplest answer is that it is (as can be expected) that much so more difficult to convince someone who hears a voice - which is evidently 'real' in the sense that it describes truths the recipient could have no other way of knowing - that the he only hears this voice because he's mad, and should strive for reintegration with the real world. Indeed, we know Rand refuses to believe LTT's voice a manifestation of his madness due to its 'realness', at least after the initial shock of hearing it; having Cadsuane remind him of that possibility makes the voice go away for a time - a telltale sign. This understanding makes it clear to me what she meant by "real" - the voice of someone who once lived, telling truths contained in past memories.

 

Finally, if you accept that Semirhage's remarks contain no indication as to the voice being real in the sense that it represents a separate identity, only that it's the voice of a real man who once lived, we're left with two options. One is to explain the voice by known psychological syndromes, the other to determine that - in Randland - people can very rarely retain their consciousness post-death and 'haunt' their next incarnation. Which is more convoluted and unnecessarily complicated?

Still, I suppose you won't accept this core argument regarding Semirhage's words. That's fine; we can agree to interpret them in different ways. To me it's simpler to accept them like I described, for the reason I mentioned, but evidently it is not so for everyone.

[Luckers]

Finally, if you accept that Semirhage's remarks contain no indication as to the voice being real in the sense that it represents a separate identity, only that it's the voice of a real man who once lived

 

This distinction makes no sense. If it is the voice of the real man who once lived, then it is Lews Therin's voice, and thus the voice of a distinct identity. If it is the voice of a personality Rand constructed, then it is not the real voice of a past life of which Semirhage speaks.

 

But, for the sake of argument, I'd concede to your interpretation of what Semirhage said--it does refer to the real voice of a man who once lived. I then make all the same arguments as above.

 

we're left with two options. One is to explain the voice by known psychological syndromes, the other to determine that - in Randland - people can very rarely retain their consciousness post-death and 'haunt' their next incarnation. Which is more convoluted and unnecessarily complicated?

 

The former. Certainly no aspect of known abnormal psychological states explains the manifestation of memories, or the 'real voice of a man who once lived'. To do so you would presume an entire new psychological problem--the manufacturing of a voice to fit past life memories, which still wouldn't answer Semirhage's statement that the voice is the real voice of the past life.

 

However we do have precedent within the Wheel of Time for the ongoing nature of personality. Certainly memory survives in the greater cohesion of the soul--Birgitte knows the destinctions between her lives--oh, they are all intergrated, but they are there. It was intergration that Rand needed, after all. He needed to become as Birgitte was.

 

Another example: the Dark One actively secured a specific facet personality when recycling his chosen, indicating some degree of tangible reality to those personalities. A quantifiable identifiable reality which could be harnessed and maintained.

 

So no, I do not have a problem with the suggestion. It's a simple one. The identity of each life remains intergrated in the soul, except for the rare situation in which one of them becomes active. A dangerous, mentally destabalizing thing to happen, but a far more simple explanation for Rand's mental state than that Semirhage is wrong to name the voice real, and that Rand constructed a personality to hold the unique, and distinct, manifestation of memories that has occured within him.

 

Because you can't have it both ways. The voice can't be really that of Lews Therin, as Semirhage states and you accede to, and also a construct of Rand's delusional mind.

[yoniy0]

I give up. You Aussies won't see reason if it'd step up to you and smack you across the face.

[Dream]

Alright, we'll be the Facetists (sidenote, I originally read that as facetits, which may serve your purpose even better),

Surely you do not accuse me of such vulgarity! (Or such obviousness!)

 

but in honour of the cobbled together nature of the construct theory, I think you deserve a new title also. How bout the Ooogedyboogedyists?

 

:D

Now you're just being facetious.

 

 

 

Finally, if you accept that Semirhage's remarks contain no indication as to the voice being real in the sense that it represents a separate identity, only that it's the voice of a real man who once lived

 

This distinction makes no sense. If it is the voice of the real man who once lived, then it is Lews Therin's voice, and thus the voice of a distinct identity. If it is the voice of a personality Rand constructed, then it is not the real voice of a past life of which Semirhage speaks.

I agree, that distinction was rather confusing. I may be speaking only for myself, but the difference to me is LTT was a whole and complete person/personality while the Voice is not the whole and complete LTT person/pesonality but a fragment of Rand's person/personality. Rand and LTT is, of course, the same person/personality.

 

 

But, for the sake of argument, I'd concede to your interpretation of what Semirhage said--it does refer to the real voice of a man who once lived. I then make all the same arguments as above.

 

we're left with two options. One is to explain the voice by known psychological syndromes, the other to determine that - in Randland - people can very rarely retain their consciousness post-death and 'haunt' their next incarnation. Which is more convoluted and unnecessarily complicated?

 

The former. Certainly no aspect of known abnormal psychological states explains the manifestation of memories, or the 'real voice of a man who once lived'. To do so you would presume an entire new psychological problem--the manufacturing of a voice to fit past life memories, which still wouldn't answer Semirhage's statement that the voice is the real voice of the past life.

It's not the abnormal psychological state that manifests as memories of a past life. It's the memories of a past life that leads to an abnormal psychological state. Remembering past lives may be fantastic, but it is in the books as an undenialble reality. Living in denial of one's own actions is, unfortunately, a part of our reality. No mental acrobatics are needed to believe people can disassociate themselves from their own undesirable elements.

 

 

However we do have precedent within the Wheel of Time for the ongoing nature of personality. Certainly memory survives in the greater cohesion of the soul--Birgitte knows the destinctions between her lives--oh, they are all intergrated, but they are there. It was intergration that Rand needed, after all. He needed to become as Birgitte was.

Birgittes makes a distinction between the separate lives she has lived. While she knows they were all her, some had a very distinct personality from what she thinks of herself currently. Rand makes no distinction between himself and LTT. Nor does he extend this association to the rest of his past non-Dragon lives.

 

 

Another example: the Dark One actively secured a specific facet personality when recycling his chosen, indicating some degree of tangible reality to those personalities. A quantifiable identifiable reality which could be harnessed and maintained.

What the DO does is transmigrate a soul. The limited time he has to this suggests a form of resuscitation rather than a selective rebirth. The DO does not get to choose a facet personality, he just catches the soul and whatever personality that it has is what he gets. Facets are not mentioned, nor are they required.

 

 

So no, I do not have a problem with the suggestion. It's a simple one. The identity of each life remains intergrated in the soul, except for the rare situation in which one of them becomes active. A dangerous, mentally destabalizing thing to happen, but a far more simple explanation for Rand's mental state than that Semirhage is wrong to name the voice real, and that Rand constructed a personality to hold the unique, and distinct, manifestation of memories that has occured within him.

 

Because you can't have it both ways. The voice can't be really that of Lews Therin, as Semirhage states and you accede to, and also a construct of Rand's delusional mind.

Semirhage wasn't wrong. Your interpretation of what she said is. We're not having it both ways. The Voice is the part of Rand he wishes to disassociate from himself. It is as real as the other part ("sane" Rand). The Voice was never the whole and complete LTT. Just as Rand was never the whole and complete Rand.

[yoniy0]

Okay, since it's not just Luckers who doesn't understand me, let me try again. Say I sign myself into the asylum because I hear voices. The attending psychiatrist Dr. Luckman then tries to make me realize that I'm just imagining it. If I believed I was hearing Mr. Bibbtixtrux who used to reside on 5 Moon Lane, Sulfur city, South Asia, perhaps I'll have to admit reason eventually. But if I thought the voice I was hearing was that of Margaret Thatcher, and she told me stuff that only she could have known, well then the good doctor has his work cut out for him.

 

The distinction being, I know Madam Thatcher is a real person, and if I can corroborate what she's told me, then I might be inclined to believe she somehow truly speaks to me rather than admit I'm bananas.

 

Since we know for certain that Rand remembers parts of his life as LTT, it's not like we have to make this tricky mental acrobatics to come up with the theory that he simply imagines LTT speaking to him rather than admit his own madness. "He's the mad one, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, not me. If I sometimes grab my head and mumble to myself it's only because he drives me crazy with his constant chitter-chatter."

[mb]

The Path of Daggers book tour 22 October 1998, Los Angeles - Pam Basham reportingQ: "Is [the Dragon] soul born in any other Age, or only at the advent and (theoretically, of course) the closing of the Third Age, as the Dragon/the Dragon Reborn?"

RJ: This soul is one of the Heroes, and bound to the Wheel, spun out as the Pattern wills. "It" is born in other Ages, but in a non-Dragon incarnation, to suit the pattern of that Age.

 

This quotation give us an other option; one I have never seen mentioned:

Rand will live, the Dragon dies.

For the Dragon to die, the Dragon's current incarnation may also need to die.

Rand dying as the Dragon then be resurrected as just Rand might be more accurate.

[Dream]

Okay, since it's not just Luckers who doesn't understand me, let me try again. Say I sign myself into the asylum because I hear voices. The attending psychiatrist Dr. Luckman then tries to make me realize that I'm just imagining it. If I believed I was hearing Mr. Bibbtixtrux who used to reside on 5 Moon Lane, Sulfur city, South Asia, perhaps I'll have to admit reason eventually. But if I thought the voice I was hearing was that of Margaret Thatcher, and she told me stuff that only she could have known, well then the good doctor has his work cut out for him.

 

The distinction being, I know Madam Thatcher is a real person, and if I can corroborate what she's told me, then I might be inclined to believe she somehow truly speaks to me rather than admit I'm bananas.

 

Since we know for certain that Rand remembers parts of his life as LTT, it's not like we have to make this tricky mental acrobatics to come up with the theory that he simply imagines LTT speaking to him rather than admit his own madness. "He's the mad one, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, not me. If I sometimes grab my head and mumble to myself it's only because he drives me crazy with his constant chitter-chatter."

 

Oh, I understand and agree with your argument. It was that one sentence which was--bizarre. Let me try to explain.

 

Finally, if you accept that Semirhage's remarks contain no indication as to the voice being real in the sense that it represents a separate identity, only that it's the voice of a real man who once lived...

 

The stated distinction is between "a separate identity" and "the voice of a real man who once lived" as if the two were incompatible when they pretty much mean the same thing. A voice of a real person in my head would absolutely have a separate identity than my own. Likewise, a separate identity in my head would necessarily manifest as a voice in my head.

 

 

Luckers interpretes what Semirhage says as an affirmation that personalities do continue to exist in the soul, separate from the current incarnation. How else can you hear the voice of someone long dead unless it continues to exist somewhere? And sometimes, these personalities of the soul "wake up" and start to badger the current incarnation. Now this doesn't really apply to Rand since Rand and the Voice aren't really separate (they share emotions and memories) but Luckers muddies around this by saying there is transference (presumably both ways).

[yoniy0]

When I say "the voice of a real man", I don't mean that this man is who's actually talking in your head. Simply that the voice you hear allegedly belongs to someone known to have lived in the past. That's the difference between Luckers's interpretation of this issue and my own.

 

And the reason this form of insanity is such a scourge in Randland is because people sometimes recall certain aspects of past lives. With this genuine information at their disposal - and with no apparent way for them to possess it - it's hard to convince them that they're insane. And if they don't see the truth of their situation and truly desire to get better, the chances of a favorable outcome likewise decline.

[Terez]

Ahh, I can remember the days when I would have had to join in this argument because there was no one else at Dragonmount who would defend construct. Any time I mentioned it, there would be Mr. Ares and Luckers and RAW telling me how wrong I was, and everyone else ran screaming...

[seanzor]

I could understand it working either way but the fact that Semirhage says the voice IS Real and the voice IS Lews Therin seems to suggest just that. I think rather than come up with a different solution you should just take it at face value that the voice in his head is real.;

 

Besides I would rather Rand be sane so I'm going to believe that the voice was LT

[capuga]

I could understand it working either way but the fact that Semirhage says the voice IS Real and the voice IS Lews Therin seems to suggest just that. I think rather than come up with a different solution you should just take it at face value that the voice in his head is real.;

 

Besides I would rather Rand be sane so I'm going to believe that the voice was LT

 

Even if the voice is real, hearing your past life's voice is still a form of insanity.

[plague fiend]

I could understand it working either way but the fact that Semirhage says the voice IS Real and the voice IS Lews Therin seems to suggest just that. I think rather than come up with a different solution you should just take it at face value that the voice in his head is real.;

 

Besides I would rather Rand be sane so I'm going to believe that the voice was LT

 

Even if the voice is real, hearing your past life's voice is still a form of insanity.

It is only insane if you hold it in life as we know it context. Is Matt insane because he remembers and lives out memories(in his head) that are not his own, as if he had actually been the person? No, because in tWoT we know how he got those memories. In our reality, he would be considered insane, but tWoT is not our reality. I can see both sides of the original argument. I hope it is clarified by BS in the end.

[yoniy0]

Just so (anyone else excited that a date has been set for ADwD? I need me some Arya).

Having the memories might not constitute insanity (especially when given to you by the 'finns), but hearing a voice in your head does.

 

@Jahdragon, I've already quoted exactly what Semirhage did and did not say and did my best to show why I feel fishing single words out of it and basing a theory on them alone might defeat her intention. Look in the previous page. Try keeping in mind what I later explained about the distinction between a real voice and a real man, which seems to be where I lost you guys before.

[seanzor]

Just so (anyone else excited that a date has been set for ADwD? I need me some Arya).

Having the memories might not constitute insanity (especially when given to you by the 'finns), but hearing a voice in your head does.

 

@Jahdragon, I've already quoted exactly what Semirhage did and did not say and did my best to show why I feel fishing single words out of it and basing a theory on them alone might defeat her intention. Look in the previous page. Try keeping in mind what I later explained about the distinction between a real voice and a real man, which seems to be where I lost you guys before.

Funny you should say that because I actually got the quote from your post, and read the all of the pages before posting. Try being less condescending, I was just trying to argue my point.

 

That point being Semirhage says the the voice is LT and it is real, thus meaning it is the real voice of LT. There is a difference between a real voice and a real man, the thing is that this is the real voice of a real man.

 

Here's an equation to show how I see it The Voice= Lews Therin, The Voice=Real, therefore The Voice=Real and Lews therin

 

Actually come to think of it the most important part of the quote is the part where Semirhage says it would be harder for him to get over it because the voice is real. The person being real wouldn't make the madness hard to get over, or at least not as much as the voice being real would.

The memories do not precede the voice, the memories are brought to Rand through the very real voice of Lews Therin. It's possible to interperate it your way, but it seems quite obviously intended to be interpereted the other way.

[yoniy0]

Funny you should say that because I actually got the quote from your post

It wasn't my intention to patronize you, and so allow me to start by apologizing for any and all offences taken. I'm not sure which part of my post you found condescending. If it was my referring you to previous posts, I did that because the way you phrased yourself seemed to go beyond not accepting the argument I've already made (which, naturally, is your prerogative) to not acknowledging that it's been made. If it was my suggesting you read the former post with the latter one in mind, that was because I came to realize that part of my argument wasn't clear in the first one, and didn't want that part to stop you from understanding the meaning of my argument.

 

That point being Semirhage says the the voice is LT and it is real, thus meaning it is the real voice of LT. There is a difference between a real voice and a real man, the thing is that this is the real voice of a real man.

Again, your assertion that Semirhage said that "the voice is real" - while literally rather accurate - is disassociated from the context of her words. I explained why I feel that context should affect the way we interpret her words in former posts, and so I won't repeat myself.

 

The person being real wouldn't make the madness hard to get over, or at least not as much as the voice being real would.

I'm glad you added the part I bolded, because it was the point of my previous post - the one you say you've read - that it would. Granted, not as much as the voice having its own consciousness, because then it could fight back (in addition to those efforts your own psyche would make to avoid admitting insanity). Yet, we know that Rand has the memories, so in deciding whether his hearing a voice is a figment of his imagination or the effect of an existing facet of his soul, consciousness and willpower intact, I maintain that Occam's Razor aids my side of the argument.

 

The memories do not precede the voice, the memories are brought to Rand through the very real voice of Lews Therin.

Can you substantiate this claim? Since as far as I can remember Rand was remembering stuff as early as in The Stone of Tear (if not before), but he only heard the voice towards the end of TFoH (in Cairhien, if I'm not mistaken).

[Terez]

One thing that a lot of real'ers miss is that Semirhage said Rand was hearing Lews Therin's voice because he was insane.

[Wantanswers]

The Path of Daggers book tour 22 October 1998, Los Angeles - Pam Basham reportingQ: "Is [the Dragon] soul born in any other Age, or only at the advent and (theoretically, of course) the closing of the Third Age, as the Dragon/the Dragon Reborn?"

RJ: This soul is one of the Heroes, and bound to the Wheel, spun out as the Pattern wills. "It" is born in other Ages, but in a non-Dragon incarnation, to suit the pattern of that Age.

 

This quotation give us an other option; one I have never seen mentioned:

Rand will live, the Dragon dies.

For the Dragon to die, the Dragon's current incarnation may also need to die.

Rand dying as the Dragon then be resurrected as just Rand might be more accurate.

I only posted the idea as an option and I did it intentionally. Later I posted my ideas why the Dragon could die. (he will likely die)

I also looked how Rand could get rid of the Dragon. I started with 6 options and eliminated 5 of them. The one that remained and for which I found the most support in the books is a "die-yet-live"theory.(not a "faking-dead"theory. That idea is only good for an illusionist)

[seanzor]

@Yoniy0

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, I think the realist view is simpler you think the constuctionist is and I'm not sure theres a way either of us will change our minds.

 

oh and sorry if I was being a bit defensive, it just seemed like you suggesting I had no idea what I was talking about.

[plague fiend]

I just finished tGS, awesome book. I posted the above comment before I was half through. I have to say that a part of me hoped that LT was a separate identity within Rands head. I know longer hold that opinion. Lt was an actual series of memories(lived by Rand who is LT) and a construct of the madness created by the taint, and Rand. Not to mention that remembering your previous life would probably, by itself, drive one insane. Nynaeve clarifies Semirhage's statement regarding LT/Rand. The end of the book tells us that LT is not a separate identity.