Will Elayne become a full Aes Sedai?

[Mr Ares]

I see it that if you swear an oath, you should exemplify the spirit and letter of those oaths to the best of your ability. If you're a good person and would have done so otherwise with or without being bound by an oath rod, then that's great. The reality however remains: There are oaths each Aes Sedai has to swear to if she would be Aes Sedai, and I believe those oaths came about out of the best of intentions.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. They might have had good intentions when they swore the Oaths, but that doesn't mean they were a good idea then, or are a good idea now, or should be considered the basis of what it is to be AS. The Oaths might not be to blame, but they don't help. Ultimately, they are pretty damn useless.

 

This is particularly egregious in the case of Elayne, who has publicly and privately railed against even the appearance of Rand's suzerainty (which he has never exercised, or even CLAIMED) while she seems all-too willing to submit to Egwene's demands.

People should really put aside their feelings for her and think about the issue at hand. She was in a difficult situation. You've all read Dyelin - she wouldn't have supported Elayne if she didn't make it clear she was putting forward her own claim, not accepting Rand's declaration that the Lion Throne belongs to her. His declaring that was very problematic for her in the Andoran inner-stage, she had to distance herself somewhat. And really, what did she do? Removed the flags of a foreign sovereign from her capitol city? Evict his policing force and reclaimed Caemlyn for Andor? Is that really that unexpected? I'd have done so myself, were I in her situation.

 

You think way too much of traditions and not nearly enough of power, who is Dyelin? A person who was entirely at Rand's mercy.

 

I can tell you this, had Rand wanted, he could very easily declared Queen of Andor and the entire noble class has FAILED its people in that they let a forsaken ruled the country.

 

And him, the lord dragon is the one saved people of Andor. He could then named himself king, and it would be easy to gain people's support. Any noble house who dare to not support him can be easily deposed of. I don't think he even needs to let anyone know who his mother was.

 

The "Andoran inner-stage" you speak of couldn't do a thing to Rahvin, nor will they able to do a thing to Rand, had he wanted to rule Andor.

 

 

What Elyne did there, was political SUICIDE, she only got away from it because Rand is her lover AND a very nice person without a huger for power.

Rand could say that he'd just saved them from a Chosen, but why should they believe him? As far as anyone has any reason to believe, Gaebril was just an Andoran lord. Rand says they've failed, they reply with "prove it." The people weren't sold on Rand either, what with him being a foreign conqueror.

Yeah right, if Rand is going hard on them, the high houses who run away from 1 forsaken who made the queen his pet would somehow have the gut to say "prove it" to Rand's face, who happen to be more powerful, and with the most powerful army the wetland has seen in light knows how many years?? Not a snowball's chance in hell.

They didn't run away because Gaebril was a Chosen, because they had no idea he was a Chosen. He was an Andoran lord with a lot of influence over the Queen. And if Rand is saying he killed Rahvin, not Gaebril, then why should people believe him? And if he is saying they should believe him because he has a huge army, that doesn't exactly make for a compelling case. The Rand-saved-the-people-of-Andor case you put forward is one you are now claiming doesn't matter - they couldn't stand up to his massive army, and if they try he'll smash them into the dirt. Make up your mind - is he gaining support because he's saying "I killed Rahvin, take my word for it", or is he gaining support because he's saying "obey or die"?

You assume too much, for one thing, you assume Rand would treat noble and the common people the same way? You can treat Andor noble like dirt, they are less than useless, but the people...

But the commoners have already expressed a dissatisfaction with Rand so he wouldn't have their support, and the nobles are not "less than useless." They are, admittedly, ill equipped to kill a Chosen, but that's not really part of their job description anyway. They didn't fail in any real way.

[Terez]

I'm guessing no one has taught you guys how to trim quotes yet?

[sskk]

But the commoners have already expressed a dissatisfaction with Rand so he wouldn't have their support, and the nobles are not "less than useless." They are, admittedly, ill equipped to kill a Chosen, but that's not really part of their job description anyway. They didn't fail in any real way.

 

 

Now you start to confuse what happened and what could have been done, I was always talking about the later.

 

Edit: couldn't sleep, might as well add some:

 

You start to contradict yourself, first you said they only thought he is just a lord, who have too much influence on the queen, now you said they are ill equipped to kill a forsaken.

 

If the they cannot do a thing to a lord who made queen his pet, they failed at their job.

 

If they are cannot handle a real danged Andor has encountered, whether you think " it's not really part of their job " or not, only means they are useless.(BTW, I wonder what would a borderland lord say about this "that's not really part of their job"...)

 

Now it seems they are both, so they both failed at their job and is useless.

[yoniy0]

I don't think the worthiness of Andor's nobility has bearing on whether Elayne resigns her position as AS. Couldn't you two just agree to disagree? It seems clear to me that we won't reach an understanding on this issue any time soon.

 

Also, in the future, kindly take Terez's suggestion and quote the necessary parts alone. The thread becomes illegible very quickly with posts that go on for miles.

[sskk]

I don't think the worthiness of Andor's nobility has bearing on whether Elayne resigns her position as AS. Couldn't you two just agree to disagree? It seems clear to me that we won't reach an understanding on this issue any time soon.

 

Also, in the future, kindly take Terez's suggestion and quote the necessary parts alone. The thread becomes illegible very quickly with posts that go on for miles.

 

 

OK, sorry I won't post on that matter anymore.

 

Will also try to trim my posts now.

[Elan Tedronai]

You have to say though that if latra posae went along with LTT's plan the world would have been doomed for good

 

You are correct.

 

It was pretty much the work of the Pattern. It wasnt an error by either Lews Therin or Latra. They both did what was needed.

 

The bore needed to be sealed, so LTT sacrificed the male channelers in a way.

The pattern needed the bore to be sealed, and that was the only way.

 

However, the pattern also needed the women channelers to stay untainted.

 

Thus, Latra's opposition.

 

So both male and female were doing their part in the pattern.

 

The world would have been consumed by the DO if the males didnt seal the DO, even with the taint.

 

The world would have been utterly destroyed if both male and female was tainted.

 

 

I am hoping, however, that this isnt the same thing with Egwene and Rand. I hope it wont just be a repeat of Latra/LTT. That would be redundant.

 

Most likely, this time both will need to work together.

 

 

what do you mean the only way? You think rand is going to seal the bore using LTT's plan again? c'mon man!

 

there is another way to seal the bore. But it seems during AOL, the pattern could not figure it out lol

[Barid Bel Medar]

You have to say though that if latra posae went along with LTT's plan the world would have been doomed for good

 

You are correct.

 

It was pretty much the work of the Pattern. It wasnt an error by either Lews Therin or Latra. They both did what was needed.

 

The bore needed to be sealed, so LTT sacrificed the male channelers in a way.

The pattern needed the bore to be sealed, and that was the only way.

 

However, the pattern also needed the women channelers to stay untainted.

 

Thus, Latra's opposition.

 

So both male and female were doing their part in the pattern.

 

The world would have been consumed by the DO if the males didnt seal the DO, even with the taint.

 

The world would have been utterly destroyed if both male and female was tainted.

 

 

I am hoping, however, that this isnt the same thing with Egwene and Rand. I hope it wont just be a repeat of Latra/LTT. That would be redundant.

 

Most likely, this time both will need to work together.

 

 

what do you mean the only way? You think rand is going to seal the bore using LTT's plan again? c'mon man!

 

there is another way to seal the bore. But it seems during AOL, the pattern could not figure it out lol

 

No.

 

I do not think it will repeat itself. Rand will seal it more completely.

How, I have no idea really.

 

IN the AoL however, that was the only way.

 

They were days from defeat, that was the only plan they had, call it the patterns mistake or the DO winning.

 

It was seal the bore imperfectly or let the DO destory the pattern.

 

In any case, its kinda drifted off topic.

 

TO the original post, I think that Elayne will be forced to take the test and oaths just as Nynaeve was. I dont see any sudden twists comming.

 

It will probably be offscreen, after the LB possibly, but I cant see Egwene letting Elayne (a powerful Queen) off her leash.

[Elan Tedronai]

You have to say though that if latra posae went along with LTT's plan the world would have been doomed for good

 

You are correct.

 

It was pretty much the work of the Pattern. It wasnt an error by either Lews Therin or Latra. They both did what was needed.

 

The bore needed to be sealed, so LTT sacrificed the male channelers in a way.

The pattern needed the bore to be sealed, and that was the only way.

 

However, the pattern also needed the women channelers to stay untainted.

 

Thus, Latra's opposition.

 

So both male and female were doing their part in the pattern.

 

The world would have been consumed by the DO if the males didnt seal the DO, even with the taint.

 

The world would have been utterly destroyed if both male and female was tainted.

 

 

I am hoping, however, that this isnt the same thing with Egwene and Rand. I hope it wont just be a repeat of Latra/LTT. That would be redundant.

 

Most likely, this time both will need to work together.

 

 

what do you mean the only way? You think rand is going to seal the bore using LTT's plan again? c'mon man!

 

there is another way to seal the bore. But it seems during AOL, the pattern could not figure it out lol

 

No, you are mistaken.

 

I do not think it will repeat itself. Rand will seal it more completely.

 

IN the AoL however, that was the only way.

 

They were days from defeat, that was the only plan they had.

 

 

the only way? you mean the pattern could not provide for 10 long years LTT, latra and the rest of the Aes sedai with the right way of sealing the bore? And yet after 3000 years the pattern suddenly will in some mysterious way provide rand with the true method of sealing the bore?

 

That's a pretty convienient i must say

[Barid Bel Medar]

You have to say though that if latra posae went along with LTT's plan the world would have been doomed for good

 

You are correct.

 

It was pretty much the work of the Pattern. It wasnt an error by either Lews Therin or Latra. They both did what was needed.

 

The bore needed to be sealed, so LTT sacrificed the male channelers in a way.

The pattern needed the bore to be sealed, and that was the only way.

 

However, the pattern also needed the women channelers to stay untainted.

 

Thus, Latra's opposition.

 

So both male and female were doing their part in the pattern.

 

The world would have been consumed by the DO if the males didnt seal the DO, even with the taint.

 

The world would have been utterly destroyed if both male and female was tainted.

 

 

I am hoping, however, that this isnt the same thing with Egwene and Rand. I hope it wont just be a repeat of Latra/LTT. That would be redundant.

 

Most likely, this time both will need to work together.

 

 

what do you mean the only way? You think rand is going to seal the bore using LTT's plan again? c'mon man!

 

there is another way to seal the bore. But it seems during AOL, the pattern could not figure it out lol

 

No, you are mistaken.

 

I do not think it will repeat itself. Rand will seal it more completely.

 

IN the AoL however, that was the only way.

 

They were days from defeat, that was the only plan they had.

 

 

the only way? you mean the pattern could not provide for 10 long years LTT, latra and the rest of the Aes sedai with the right way of sealing the bore? And yet after 3000 years the pattern suddenly will in some mysterious way provide rand with the true method of sealing the bore?

 

That's a pretty convienient i must say

 

call it what you will, thats what happened.