Discuss Graendal

[plague fiend]

It works - she put Ramshalam under Compulsion, learnt what he had to tell and then takes it off, and gets someone else to put it on, when she thinks of Nyn.

The key factor that made me realise Graendal was likely still alive when I read TGS was simple - she knew Ramshalam had come from an open Gate within walking distance of her castle. She knew Rand could walk into her domain at an instant's notice.

Yet she apparently did nothing and sent nobody to monitor the Gate.

Nor did she apparently send anybody to shadow Ramshalam back

That didn't gell.

 

The whole thing seemed, for the lack of a better word, sloppy. Not what I would expect from Graendal. The vagueness of the encounter leaves too many possibilities.

[Duskfire]

Unless she does something in AMoL, her escape at this point seems largely pointless. Heck, could have killed her off and had Aran`gar do the plan and it still would have ended the same way. Its also a bit weird that she would be sent after Perrin all of a sudden.

 

Moridin: Hurt Rand heaps

Graendal: Sure boss

 

A week later...

 

Moridin: That order I gave you just before. Well, I am changing it. Go after Perrin now.

Graendal: Sure boss

[Mr Hindley]

Unless she does something in AMoL, her escape at this point seems largely pointless. Heck, could have killed her off and had Aran`gar do the plan and it still would have ended the same way.

 

I've thought the same thing. It seems a lot of effort, narrative-wise, when we just needed a random Forsaken to have a failed plot to kill Perrin. (And don't even get me started on the whole 'oh-he's-ta'veren-so-the-Pattern-will-protect-him-anyway' nonsense...) Graendal-fan as I may be, it would have been much neater and more symbolic to have that scene in tGS play out the way Rand thought it did i.e. after so many books of clever manipulation, Graendal is undone by a straightforward hammer blow to the head, metaphorically.

 

So why keep her alive, only to have her not achieve very much and then - presumably - just become another lackey of Moridin? All I can think of is that we now have one of the more prominent Forsaken in a position where Rand thinks she's already dead. There was a time when you could have said the same about the various resurrected Forsaken, but Rand knows about them now. (Mind you, he doesn't seem to have given much thought to the return of Aginor and Balthamel - he has no way of knowing that both of them were killed off again.) So Graendal is unique in that no-one is looking for her.

[Duskfire]

So why keep her alive, only to have her not achieve very much and then - presumably - just become another lackey of Moridin? All I can think of is that we now have one of the more prominent Forsaken in a position where Rand thinks she's already dead. There was a time when you could have said the same about the various resurrected Forsaken, but Rand knows about them now. (Mind you, he doesn't seem to have given much thought to the return of Aginor and Balthamel - he has no way of knowing that both of them were killed off again.) So Graendal is unique in that no-one is looking for her.

 

Well, I am presuming all those lackeys will still do something. Cyndane definetly will; her and Rand have far too history for her not to do anything, and the end of ToM implies something. Moghieden eh, shes only been in the series like once since book 9 so pfft :P

[Southpaw89]

So...we KNOW know Graendal killed Asmodean. I want to know HOW she knew he would enter THAT closet. Did she just think "I will hide in a random closet all day in the off chance that if Asmodean comes here for a drink, I can kill him" And if so, she had to kill EVERYONE who opened the pantry, or else they'd have mentioned to someone that there was a hot babe in the closet.

 

 

It wasn't confirmed to be a closet right? I thought Asmodean just assumed he was going into the pantry then got killed from Graendal acting in self defense.

[OptimusPrime]

It works - she put Ramshalam under Compulsion, learnt what he had to tell and then takes it off, and gets someone else to put it on, when she thinks of Nyn.

The key factor that made me realise Graendal was likely still alive when I read TGS was simple - she knew Ramshalam had come from an open Gate within walking distance of her castle. She knew Rand could walk into her domain at an instant's notice.

 

The thing that made me realise she had survived was Rands absolute dead certainty that she didnt. That and the fact that WE didnt see her die; his absolute certainty sealed the deal for me.

[Luckers]

Funnily enough the thing that made me certain she was alive (aside from a knee-jerk reaction to everyone thinking she was dead [note: heavy on the 'jerk']) was that Rand essentially laid out his intention to Ramshalan. It's funny because Graendal never thought to ask the questions--so essentially what made me certain she was alive was itself something that never occured.

[ThatGuy]

Having just started my reread of TOM, I still can't believe Brandon thought the Graendal escape was a good idea. I was convinced after TGS that Graendal was dead - not because a properly motivated author couldn't come up with a scenario where she survived, just that it would be pointless and terrible if they did. It is so forced and poorly written, I have to rank it as the worst passage Brandon has written so far in WOT. And for what reason? Just so we have one more drone for Rand to demolish on the way to Moridin or the DO?

[Sharaman]

Having just started my reread of TOM, I still can't believe Brandon thought the Graendal escape was a good idea. I was convinced after TGS that Graendal was dead - not because a properly motivated author couldn't come up with a scenario where she survived, just that it would be pointless and terrible if they did. It is so forced and poorly written, I have to rank it as the worst passage Brandon has written so far in WOT. And for what reason? Just so we have one more drone for Rand to demolish on the way to Moridin or the DO?

The storyline needed another Shaidar Haran moment. I'm looking out for a scene in AMoL when he's displeased with Demandred.

[Southpaw89]

you guys do realize that Graendal escaping was RJ's idea and not Brandons right? Brandon is following RJ's outline and notes and completed scenes.

[Mr Hindley]

you guys do realize that Graendal escaping was RJ's idea and not Brandons right? Brandon is following RJ's outline and notes and completed scenes.

 

And I reckon it must have been planned by RJ, as the whole scenario also involved Aran'gar's death, which RJ must have had planned out in advance. Bear in mind that the idea of a Graendal-Aran'gar alliance was first set up by RJ, in KoD, presumably to give a reason for Aran'gar to be in Graendal's palace at that fateful moment, together with Delana.

 

Now, if aMoL had all been one book, as originally planned, I suspect we wouldn't have had the whole 'is she, isn't she?' debate between tGS and ToM. Hey, it gave us something to chew over, always fun :)

 

Still think it's a bit odd that after Graendal was instructed by Moridin to cause Rand pain, that all got dropped, and she quite randomly ended up pointed at Perrin, when any of the Forsaken could have filled the role just as well.