Nakomi

[smileyman]

Back in The Great Hunt Jordan spent a lot of time and effort introducing Mirror Worlds.

 

One of the things we learned about them was that they were mirrors showing all of the possibilities for what happens in the Real World. At one point either Loial mentions, or Rand thinks about the possibility of visiting one of those worlds and meeting himself.

 

Since then, Portal Stones, Mirror Worlds, and everything having to do with them has been almost totally ignored. Now it may be that Mirror Worlds is a plot device that Jordan decided was too complicated to use further, but it could also be that we haven't seen the last of their impact on the story.

 

Since activating a Portal Stone is not all that complicated for a channeler, and since the worlds accessible via Portal Stones are mirrors of the Real World, it seems logical that there are people on those Mirror Worlds who can access the Real World. Since the Mirrors reflect ALL possibilities, there must be one world where the Jenn do not die out.

 

Nakomi may be a visitor from one such Mirror World. Possibly a mirror Jenn. Possibly a mirror AoL style Aes Sedai.

 

Or, none of the above.

This gives me an idea.

 

I thought it quite curious that the ter'angreal gave Aviendha viewings of a future - and a nightmare one at that - when she was expecting to view the past of her ancestors.

 

Not quite. The second trip is for what might be. All the Wise Ones have seen glimpses of their future, enough to guide them as needed. I think that the difference is that Aviendha saw the future through the eyes of her descendants, rather than varying views of her own future.

[Sid]

I thought it quite curious that the ter'angreal gave Aviendha viewings of a future - and a nightmare one at that - when she was expecting to view the past of her ancestors.

 

Not quite. The second trip is for what might be. All the Wise Ones have seen glimpses of their future, enough to guide them as needed. I think that the difference is that Aviendha saw the future through the eyes of her descendants, rather than varying views of her own future.

Her first trip to Rhidean she went through the Ter'angreal that shows possible futures, like Moiraine did. A Wise One's second trip (different ter'angreal) shows about what Rand saw in his trip to Rhuidean (history of the Aiel), and Avi saw that too, but already knew about it and didn't learn anything. When she went through it again, she saw something different (future of the Aiel).

[darko]

My first impression was Graendal and that she was behind the future shown to Avi, like some kind of trick. But it doesn't really fit. I JUST finished the book so...

[AliasKelly]

Back in The Great Hunt Jordan spent a lot of time and effort introducing Mirror Worlds.

 

One of the things we learned about them was that they were mirrors showing all of the possibilities for what happens in the Real World. At one point either Loial mentions, or Rand thinks about the possibility of visiting one of those worlds and meeting himself.

 

Since then, Portal Stones, Mirror Worlds, and everything having to do with them has been almost totally ignored. Now it may be that Mirror Worlds is a plot device that Jordan decided was too complicated to use further, but it could also be that we haven't seen the last of their impact on the story.

 

Since activating a Portal Stone is not all that complicated for a channeler, and since the worlds accessible via Portal Stones are mirrors of the Real World, it seems logical that there are people on those Mirror Worlds who can access the Real World. Since the Mirrors reflect ALL possibilities, there must be one world where the Jenn do not die out.

 

Nakomi may be a visitor from one such Mirror World. Possibly a mirror Jenn. Possibly a mirror AoL style Aes Sedai.

 

Or, none of the above.

This gives me an idea.

 

I thought it quite curious that the ter'angreal gave Aviendha viewings of a future - and a nightmare one at that - when she was expecting to view the past of her ancestors.

 

Now as to WHO Nakomi was, it could have been Graendal. I still think it could also have been Cyndane. Yes, yes, I know some of you would have expected Cyndane to automatically rip her apart instantly if given the chance. I say not so. If you're really looking to destroy someone, why not prolong the moment by planting poisonous seeds, then sit back and savor the result?

 

Theory:

 

Aviendha is not in our world. She is in a mirror-Rhuidean and passing through a mirror-world ter'angreal. Because Avi camped next to a Portal Stone, "Nakomi" had the opportunity to pull her into a parallel world.

 

 

Your theory is intriguing, but I just can buy the Portal Stone premise. The stone she is said to camp beside is "a tremendous stone." I guess this all depends on one's definition of "tremendous" but in The Great Hunt a portal stone is said to be three spans (approximately 18 feet) high. To me, that is not tremendous.

 

Also, Aviendha has seen portal stones before, and been transported by them. Surely she would recognize another one if she saw it - she's a very observant person - her Aiel heritage and training don't allow her not to be. In a chapter told from her point of view I find it hard to believe that she would see a Portal Stone as merely a tremendous stone.

[smileyman]

I thought it quite curious that the ter'angreal gave Aviendha viewings of a future - and a nightmare one at that - when she was expecting to view the past of her ancestors.

 

Not quite. The second trip is for what might be. All the Wise Ones have seen glimpses of their future, enough to guide them as needed. I think that the difference is that Aviendha saw the future through the eyes of her descendants, rather than varying views of her own future.

Her first trip to Rhidean she went through the Ter'angreal that shows possible futures, like Moiraine did. A Wise One's second trip (different ter'angreal) shows about what Rand saw in his trip to Rhuidean (history of the Aiel), and Avi saw that too, but already knew about it and didn't learn anything. When she went through it again, she saw something different (future of the Aiel).

 

I'm positive it's the other way around.

 

OK, you're right.

 

From The Shadow Rising, Chapter "Beyond the Stone"

 

"In Rhuidean," Amys said, "you will find three rings, arranged so." She drew three lines in the air, joining together in the middle. "Step through any one. You will see your future laid before you, again and again, in variation. They will not guide you wholly, as is best . . ."

 

Rand was sent to the center to see his ancestor's lives. Did Aviendha go through a different ter'angeal than Rand? Or do the Wise Ones go through all their descendants lives as well? I always got the impression that the Wise Ones (as well as the Clan Chiefs) went through their ancestors lives, since they all knew the truth about the Aiel.

[Fains nose]

some evidence for Nakomi being an Aiel, rather than Verin or someone else, is the roots that she brought with her to cook, that Aviendah remembered from her childhood. i think that like most Aiel foods/plants, these roots that nakomi had are only available in the Waste, so why would Verin go to the trouble of finding a specific food only available in the Waste?. I dont know who Nakomi is, but i think shes an Aiel. though the way the coals on the fire suddenly increased was suspicious, as was the way Nakomi disappeared. Maybe shes an Aiel from the future

[dfchang]

We also have to look at possibilities that aren't too deus ex machina. We can't have somebody literally out of the blue in the LAST freaking book start yapping to Aviendha.

 

For that reason alone, I have to rule out weird stuff like Aiel from the future, the Jenn Aiel, ghosts, etc.

 

At first, I didn't think it was Verin but now the more I read, I am becoming a bit more convinced.

 

If this is a mystery that is not solved, I can only assume it is Verin because she would represent the only answer that doesn't require a serious explanation of who Nakomi is . . .

 

Dennis

[darth_hel]

The Jenn Aiel set up Rhuidean, they seemed to know how to work the terangreal. What if they used it to see the future, and saw that the only way to save the Aiel was to interfere with Aviendha at that time and place, and further the doubt in her mind about the Aiel. They could have set up some way with Terangreal to send something to meet her and say all the right things. Nakomi could have been some spectre or being made from the power.

[feliasgrimm]

This may be oversimplification, BUT:

 

When I read it (I didn't actually even consider Verin, but something about that just doesn't quite fit with me even though I acknowledge it's a valid, possible, and plausible theory) my first gut impression is that the person was a hallucination/vision.

 

It's no secret that RJ has borrowed extensively from different cultures and religions, and I've always seen the whole "path to rhuidean" thing as being something along the lines of a vision quest similar to what's practiced by american indians. From a physiological standpoint, one of the major catalysts for the visions (visions if you believe in the culture, hallucinations if you don't, but either way it's people seeing things) is often a combination of drugs (natural or otherwise) and fatigue/exposure. It's no secret that running across the desert will cause you to start seeing things (how many people DON'T know what a mirage is? And one of the first rules of survival is don't go running towards lakes you see in the desert 'cuz they're prolly not real). I think seeing the spirits of your ancestors and/or a spiritual guide is just part of the process, part that is NEVER brought up because we've never seen the PoV of a wise one going for her second trip and we've had several books telling us that you DO NOT EVER discuss your trip (choose your meaning) with anyone who hasn't already gone on one.

 

Nakomi felt like a spirit guide to me, she brought forth some questions that were on Avi's mind following a long run through the desert.

 

I realize that Avi, like all Aiel, is used to the whole running through the desert so presumably heat stroke wouldn't be as bad as for a wetlander, but I still wonder if it isn't simply part of the process. It certainly had that kind of feel to it. Hell, it could even be a triggered response from the first ter'angreal, after you go through it, it put's a trap in your brain that goes off next time you get within proximity. Eggy made something vaguely similar to try to trap mesaana. I'm doubting that part, but it COULD be.

 

Although verin DOES have a decent chunk of knowledge after all the compulsioning she did in the aiel camps (I know she was using it on aes sedai, but it's not a stretch to think she may have done it on some aiel too), I think after her big reveal in tGS people want to make her way more epic/mythic/badass than she really was. Not that she wasn't badass, but not EVERY cool thing is verin in disguise ;) Two books ago people would have dismissed the concept.

[The Desert Pea]

plus the creator has already spoken to Rand at least once when RJ was writing.

That was the Dark One.

Not to go off topic here, but was that confirmed to be the Dark One?

 

The wind died. The screams died. The earth was still. Dust amd smoke swirled back down the pass to surround him.

 

"The Light blind you, Ba'alzamon! This has to end!"

 

IT IS NOT HERE.

 

It was not Rand's thought, making his skull vibrate.

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL.

 

"Where?" He did not want to say it, but he could not stop himself. "Where?"

 

The haze surrounding him parted, leaving a dome of clear, clean air ten spans high, walled by billowing smoke and dust. Steps rose before him, each stanking alone and unsupported, stretching up into the murk that obscured the sun.

 

NOT HERE.

 

Throught the mist, as from the far end of the earth, came a cry. "The Light wills it!" The ground rumbled with the thunder of hooves as the forces of humankind launched their last charge."

 

Emphasis on the I WILL TAKE NO PART mine. Why would the DO take no part? He wants to be involved so he can end existence.

[Terez]

plus the creator has already spoken to Rand at least once when RJ was writing.

That was the Dark One.

Not to go off topic here, but was that confirmed to be the Dark One?

It has been confirmed that the Creator does not interfere. Beyond that, the Creator makes no sense.

 

The wind died. The screams died. The earth was still. Dust amd smoke swirled back down the pass to surround him.

 

"The Light blind you, Ba'alzamon! This has to end!"

 

IT IS NOT HERE.

 

It was not Rand's thought, making his skull vibrate.

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL.

 

"Where?" He did not want to say it, but he could not stop himself. "Where?"

 

The haze surrounding him parted, leaving a dome of clear, clean air ten spans high, walled by billowing smoke and dust. Steps rose before him, each stanking alone and unsupported, stretching up into the murk that obscured the sun.

 

NOT HERE.

 

Throught the mist, as from the far end of the earth, came a cry. "The Light wills it!" The ground rumbled with the thunder of hooves as the forces of humankind launched their last charge."

 

Emphasis on the I WILL TAKE NO PART mine. Why would the DO take no part? He wants to be involved so he can end existence.

Probably because he is too weak at this point to be all that effective. The seals are weakening, but none of them are yet confirmed broken. Why would the Creator pop in randomly to tell the Dark One that he's not going to take part? He never takes part. Rand said 'The Light blind you Ba'alzamon! This has to end!' The Dark One knew that Rand was talking to him, so he made it clear that it was up to his Chosen One - Ishamael (also called Ba'alzamon) - to do what must be done.

[The Desert Pea]

Hmm, never thought of interpreting it that way. For me:

 

IT IS NOT HERE = The Dark One(IT) is not here, it's not the time for Rand to fight him yet.

 

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL. = The Creator (speaker) will not take any part in the battle. The Chosen One AKA the Dragon Reborn AKA Rand has to do it himself and can it do it himself, but only if he accepts his title.

 

NOT HERE = This is not where Rand will fight the DO.

 

 

Asking RJ and BS about the voice always comes up with RAFO though, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it turns out in AMoL

[Terez]

IT IS NOT HERE = The Dark One(IT) is not here, it's not the time for Rand to fight him yet.

But the Dark One is always referred to as 'he'. I think 'it' is the prophesied confrontation between Rand and the Dark One, though some have suggested Callandor (perhaps it's necessary for their confrontation).

 

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL. = The Creator (speaker) will not take any part in the battle. The Chosen One AKA the Dragon Reborn AKA Rand has to do it himself and can it do it himself, but only if he accepts his title.

But the Creator never takes part. Why would he show up to announce that? He's obviously not speaking directly to Rand, which would make more sense than speaking to the Dark One.

 

I made a post about it here; there is some more evidence.

[Sid]

Rand was sent to the center to see his ancestor's lives. Did Aviendha go through a different ter'angeal than Rand? Or do the Wise Ones go through all their descendants lives as well? I always got the impression that the Wise Ones (as well as the Clan Chiefs) went through their ancestors lives, since they all knew the truth about the Aiel.

In ToM, she went through the same one Rand went through. All Wise Ones (except Sevanna, since she apparently never went there) have seen this, as have all the Clan Chiefs. Avi was disappointed because she already knew the things she saw there (not pictured in ToM), due to Rand letting the cat out of the bag back in TSR. Until he did that, the information there was enough of a revelation for each member of the Aiel that it was considered a suitable test. Now, it's more like reading ToM after reading the entire spoiler boards beforehand, no big surprises to test their mettle. After touching the Ter'angreal (and possibly changing it, but who knows for sure) she took a step and found herself in the future PoV's that were stated in ToM. This was something that was so suitably shocking that she decided she had to sort out her thoughts in the three-fold land. It could be that previous to this visit, everyone that had gone through and seen the visions wanted no part of seeing more than they'd already seen and got away from there as soon as possible. Or, if they did go through again and saw the future while still on tilt from past viewings, they couldn't take the combined revelations and suffered Muradin's fate we saw in TSR. It could be that Avi changed the Ter'angreal somehow by touching it, too. This discussion probably belongs in the other thread though

[JDJ]

I thought it was fairly clear that she was supposed to be Rand's mother?

 

I will admit this was one of the few ideas that jumped into my mind when I started reading this part of the book, but the way the the description of the scene moved forward, it seemed too much like being in TEL to me...

 

I could not think of a way to tie those two things (Rand's mother and TEL) together in a theory or concrete idea.

[MrBlack]

I have believed it was Verin from the beginning - like many others, the comment about her tendency to ramble sealed it for me, aside from the whole scene being her MO - but I also believed from the beginning that this would be on the unrevealed list. I'm not sure why you think the two ideas conflict.

A few reasons:

 

If it is Verin, I do not like the way it works thematically. I understand that it is possible for Nakomi to be Verin chronologically, but because we already had a rather emotional death sequence with Verin in the last book, it lessens the impact of that scene to have her appearing later on in the series.

 

I also think that there are a number of obstacles to overcome for Nakomi to be Verin. As others have mentioned, it does not fit Verin's MO of giving letters to those she wishes to pass messages on to. Furthermore, Verin would not only have to hide her ability to channel, but change her appearance AND channel without Aviendha realizing it. All are possible, but it seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through to pass a simple message on. The "rambling" statement does not appear to be a clincher to me; old people ramble, not just Verin.

 

I wish I could remember verbatim what Brandon said to me on the subject (I was sick, tired, and juggling a baby and a stroller at the time), but the impression I got was that this was something that was intentionally meant to be mysterious. Verin doesn't fit that, at least for me.

[Terez]

Verin's MO is not giving letters. Her MO is prattling to guide people to a certain point. A letter wouldn't have worked with Aviendha because Aviendha wouldn't have cared much about the opinion of a wetlander. And with all of the mystery surrounding Verin, I fail to see why you think the mysterious aspect doesn't fit her. She's been one of the most notoriously mysterious characters in the series.

 

Another report:

 

Towers of Midnight book tour 6 November 2010, Bailey's Crossroads, VA - Robert Mee reporting

 

Someone else (two different people, actually) asked about Nakomi. Brandon RAFO’d, but then said that there were some very interesting theories out there, and that some hard core fan freaks may have had some that were more accurate than others he’d seen. I don’t know if he’s referring to Theoryland specifically or just the OCD fan community in general.

 

By HCFFs he probably means those of us who are consistently dedicated to WoT discussion and also good at it, like me and Luckers and Tam and Linda, etc. I'm not sure what Linda's theory is. Tam thinks it was one of the Wise Ones. I think it was Verin. Last I heard, Luckers was fond of the Verin idea too.

 

 

[yoniy0]

It's hard coming to this thread after you guys have all been discussing it for a week, and so I fail on both measures Jennifer has set. Still, perhaps you won't mind my asking this:

(a) Can anyone suggest a reason Aviendha let her guard down with Nakomi? I mean, I was really suspicious from the start because the women just gave her first name, without specifying sept or clan. I don't mean when she was asked and refused to answer - that, oddly, didn't bother me as much. Just the fact that she could introduce herself as plain 'Nakomi' and get away with it bothers me greatly (even in Aviendha's dreams, why would she stand for that sort of thing?).

(b) This is going to be embarrassing, but what does "I need to see to nature" mean? I'd hate to speculate on that only to realize it's some colloquialism I'm unfamiliar with.

[AliasKelly]

It's hard coming to this thread after you guys have all been discussing it for a week, and so I fail on both measures Jennifer has set. Still, perhaps you won't mind my asking this:

(a) Can anyone suggest a reason Aviendha let her guard down with Nakomi? I mean, I was really suspicious from the start because the women just gave her first name, without specifying sept or clan. I don't mean when she was asked and refused to answer - that, oddly, didn't bother me as much. Just the fact that she could introduce herself as plain 'Nakomi' and get away with it bothers me greatly (even in Aviendha's dreams, why would she stand for that sort of thing?).

(b) This is going to be embarrassing, but what does "I need to see to nature" mean? I'd hate to speculate on that only to realize it's some colloquialism I'm unfamiliar with.

 

"Seeing to nature" means needing to perform certain bodily functions best done in private. (She had to pee)

[yoniy0]

"Seeing to nature" means needing to perform certain bodily functions best done in private.

I thought for sure Google would know this one if that was the meaning. Ah, well, at least I knew enough to stop myself from speculating before I made sure

[Danny7185]

I thought it was fairly clear that she was supposed to be Rand's mother?

 

I will admit this was one of the few ideas that jumped into my mind when I started reading this part of the book, but the way the the description of the scene moved forward, it seemed too much like being in TEL to me...

 

I could not think of a way to tie those two things (Rand's mother and TEL) together in a theory or concrete idea.

 

When I first started reading it I thought it was Tigraine/Shaiel as well. Especially when Aviendha asked where she was from she said "far from my roof yet not far at all" but she couldn't answer the question. Obviously she was from Andor(far) and the Waste(close), and I think Gitara Moroso told her not to tell anyone when she left. So she could still be holding to that...

 

But since it was from Aviendha's point of view I'm assuming she would have remarked to herself how much the woman looked like Rand if it was his mother. She did say to herself "there was something about her..." but that seems a tough stretch.

 

Plus the whole coals appearing from nowhere and food being cooked so fast and her disappearance smelled of it being something a little less straightforward.

[Vicious Circle]

If this were a game of Clue I would vote: Amys, in Tel'aran'rhiod, with a "Mask of Mirrors". Lots of hinting. Avi leans back and closes her eyes. Out here on the route Amys tells her to take. Nakomi is not dressed like a Wise One "but there was something about her". "Where had all those coals come from?" Nakomi pulls a lot of stuff for cooking out of that pack. "I am far from my roof, yet not far at all. Perhaps it is far from me". Nakomi just happens to make food that reminds Avi of her Mom. Food that cooks too fast. Disappearing instantly. All her stuff disappearing instantly. Hinting to Avi that the Aiel need to adapt, like The Dreamwalkers did before she left. "By breaking oath to do no violence, our people have gained much toh". 'We came to three fold land to meet toh, why come back here just to be made harder after toh paid by following the Car'a'carn'. Sounds like they know she will see the future and and what it will be and are psyching her up not to let it crush her spirit.

Not that I like this future, but it will not surprise me if it is true. A Remnant will adapt. Those who stubbornly hang on to tradition, parish.

[decrepid dragon]

She really made me think of that old woman in TR that taught Egwene how to control it (Suffa or something?) back in the early books. Did we ever find out who that was, some random who knew stuff or a helping hand from the light? Wot has so much information I can't hope to keep up.

 

Edit: whoops, just looked back through a chapter of ToM and Suffa is Elida's damane name

I think her name started with an n though.

[yoniy0]

She really made me think of that old woman in TR that taught Egwene how to control it (Suffa or something?) back in the early books. Did we ever find out who that was, some random who knew stuff or a helping hand from the light? Wot has so much information I can't hope to keep up.

That was Lanfear, IIRC. But perhaps this is, too

[salmidach]

I thought it was fairly clear that she was supposed to be Rand's mother?

 

Have to agree it IS Rand's Mother.

 

She disappeared after his birth, no mother was found with the Baby, the obvious place she would go would be to the Three fold land, to watch over the time when her son would become the DR.