Asmodean

[didymos]

For god's sake. This is ridiculous.

 

That's putting it mildly.

[Jblaylock]

For god's sake. This is ridiculous.

 

That's putting it mildly.

 

Saying "Asmodean went for the long jump in that scene" isn't saying much at all; it is avoiding a direct answer. Why would RJ repeatedly avoid directly saying that Asmodean is in fact dead if he really is? I still say he's not dead. I'm entitled to that opinion, and there's no reason why anyone needs try and convince me otherwise.

[didymos]

Nowhere in there does Brandon even admit that Asmo is dead.

 

Oh, now you want a Brandon quote. The multiple RJ quotes in that document weren't good enough?

 

And, again, if "how he died and when he died" have yet to happen, then it would make sense that the DO could not bring him back.

 

Read the quote I posted again (I'll bold the relevant part):

 

Knife of Dreams book tour 11 October 2005 - WinespringBrother reporting

 

WSB: Since you said at an earlier signing that the Dark One couldn't have brought back Asmodean if he wanted, was that at the time of Asmodean's death, or after that?

RJ: The Dark One couldn't bring back Asmodean because of the combination of 2 factors: HOW HE DIED and WHERE HE DIED. Not one or the other, both factors.

 

Not "when". Where.

[didymos]

Saying "Asmodean went for the long jump in that scene" isn't saying much at all; it is avoiding a direct answer. Why would RJ repeatedly avoid directly saying that Asmodean is in fact dead if he really is? I still say he's not dead. I'm entitled to that opinion, and there's no reason why anyone needs try and convince me otherwise.

 

I noticed you ignored the one where RJ said he's roadkill. How do spin that to mean "not actually dead"?

[Jblaylock]

Saying "Asmodean went for the long jump in that scene" isn't saying much at all; it is avoiding a direct answer. Why would RJ repeatedly avoid directly saying that Asmodean is in fact dead if he really is? I still say he's not dead. I'm entitled to that opinion, and there's no reason why anyone needs try and convince me otherwise.

 

I noticed you ignored the one where RJ said he's roadkill. How do spin that to mean "not actually dead"?

 

 

That's still avoiding a direct answer. I don't need to spin it. The mere fact that he once again avoided saying "Asmodean is dead" says that something fishy is going on.

 

And "where" he died could be something of the future as well, yet to be determined, which would make it still true that the DO cannot bring back one who has not yet died.

[Jblaylock]

...

Oh, now you want a Brandon quote. The multiple RJ quotes in that document weren't good enough?

 

 

That was responding to the link provided, which was an interview with Brandon, and not RJ. If someone posts an interview with Brandon as their "proof" then it makes since that I would say "where does Brandon say this or that."

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

lol, I think he's quite clearly dead. but would not be surprised if he is tied to the wheel to be re spun out and to see him lurking in TAR. just for a laugh. (plus he did have thoughts about potentially going light side when training rand so maybe the pattern is considering a use for him).

[didymos]

...

Oh, now you want a Brandon quote. The multiple RJ quotes in that document weren't good enough?

 

 

That was responding to the link provided, which was an interview with Brandon, and not RJ. If someone posts an interview with Brandon as their "proof" then it makes since that I would say "where does Brandon say this or that."

 

It's got numerous RJ quotes in it too. Click the "(go to Robert Jordan quotes)" link at the top to go to them.

[Barid Bel Medar]

...

Oh, now you want a Brandon quote. The multiple RJ quotes in that document weren't good enough?

 

 

That was responding to the link provided, which was an interview with Brandon, and not RJ. If someone posts an interview with Brandon as their "proof" then it makes since that I would say "where does Brandon say this or that."

 

It's got numerous RJ quotes in it too. Click the "(go to Robert Jordan quotes)" link at the top to go to them.

 

Also, the fact that in the scene it says "death took him."

 

Thats pretty much as plain as it comes.

 

And yes, Didymos is right, the "when" was my mistake, i didnt even realise is. It is how and where.

 

I dont see how you get "future" = "where".

 

future is a "when".

[Jblaylock]

...

Oh, now you want a Brandon quote. The multiple RJ quotes in that document weren't good enough?

 

 

That was responding to the link provided, which was an interview with Brandon, and not RJ. If someone posts an interview with Brandon as their "proof" then it makes since that I would say "where does Brandon say this or that."

 

It's got numerous RJ quotes in it too. Click the "(go to Robert Jordan quotes)" link at the top to go to them.

 

Also, the fact that in the scene it says "death took him."

 

Thats pretty much as plain as it comes.

 

And yes, Didymos is right, the "when" was my mistake, i didnt even realise is. It is how and where.

 

I dont see how you get "future" = "where".

 

future is a "when".

 

 

Like this. I will take an effortless dump in the bathroom later.

If you asked if I can smell my dump now, I'd say "no, because of how and where it was taken." The "how and where" would be "effortlessly and later in the bathroom." It's a tricky statement, like one an Aes Sedai would make. Since RJ invented Aes Sedai, and wrote more words about them than probably any author has written about anything, then I would not rule out the possibility that he often intentionaly spoke like one.

[Barid Bel Medar]

...

Oh, now you want a Brandon quote. The multiple RJ quotes in that document weren't good enough?

 

 

That was responding to the link provided, which was an interview with Brandon, and not RJ. If someone posts an interview with Brandon as their "proof" then it makes since that I would say "where does Brandon say this or that."

 

It's got numerous RJ quotes in it too. Click the "(go to Robert Jordan quotes)" link at the top to go to them.

 

Also, the fact that in the scene it says "death took him."

 

Thats pretty much as plain as it comes.

 

And yes, Didymos is right, the "when" was my mistake, i didnt even realise is. It is how and where.

 

I dont see how you get "future" = "where".

 

future is a "when".

 

 

Like this. I will take an effortless dump in the bathroom later.

If you asked if I can smell my dump now, I'd say "no, because of how and where it was taken." The "how and where" would be "effortlessly and later in the bathroom." It's a tricky statement, like one an Aes Sedai would make. Since RJ invented Aes Sedai, and wrote more words about them than probably any author has written about anything, then I would not rule out the possibility that he often intentionaly spoke like one.

 

Again, you ignore things...

 

 

what about the Asmodean PoV..

 

 

"death took him."

[didymos]

I dont see how you get "future" = "where".

 

Oh, I don't know. You could probably come up with something weird using the Theory Of Relativity and the concept of "spacetime" as a justification. In fact, I demand that someone does so. Not me, of course, because I'm lazy.

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

and even the GloD says he's gone, and if he somehow WAS floating around im very sure that SOMEONE from the darkfriend camp would have noticed by now and had one of the forsaken or even SH pay him a visit and kick his ass for training rand.

[Jblaylock]

...

Oh, now you want a Brandon quote. The multiple RJ quotes in that document weren't good enough?

 

 

That was responding to the link provided, which was an interview with Brandon, and not RJ. If someone posts an interview with Brandon as their "proof" then it makes since that I would say "where does Brandon say this or that."

 

It's got numerous RJ quotes in it too. Click the "(go to Robert Jordan quotes)" link at the top to go to them.

 

Also, the fact that in the scene it says "death took him."

 

Thats pretty much as plain as it comes.

 

And yes, Didymos is right, the "when" was my mistake, i didnt even realise is. It is how and where.

 

I dont see how you get "future" = "where".

 

future is a "when".

 

 

Like this. I will take an effortless dump in the bathroom later.

If you asked if I can smell my dump now, I'd say "no, because of how and where it was taken." The "how and where" would be "effortlessly and later in the bathroom." It's a tricky statement, like one an Aes Sedai would make. Since RJ invented Aes Sedai, and wrote more words about them than probably any author has written about anything, then I would not rule out the possibility that he often intentionaly spoke like one.

 

Again, you ignore things...

 

 

what about the Asmodean PoV..

 

 

"death took him."

 

 

I'm not ignoring it. There are different levels of death in WOT. There's dead, then there's dead by balefire, then there's dead in a metaphorical sense. Perhaps Asmo ceased to exist. before he was Asmodean he was Joar Addam Nesossin. Rand severed his connection to the True Power, his connection to the Dark One. He was considering changing sides. When he changed from light to dark, I bet it could have been said that Joar Addam Nesossin died, and Asmodean was born. Perhaps he changed back to light, and Asmodean died.

 

Luke: "Obi-Wan! Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father!"

Obi-Wan: "Your father was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."

Luke: "A certain point of view?!"

Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

―Obi-Wan Kenobi and Luke Skywalker

 

Not WOT, but still wise words that I find applicable here.

[didymos]

Like this. I will take an effortless dump in the bathroom later.

If you asked if I can smell my dump now, I'd say "no, because of how and where it was taken." The "how and where" would be "effortlessly and later in the bathroom." It's a tricky statement, like one an Aes Sedai would make. Since RJ invented Aes Sedai, and wrote more words about them than probably any author has written about anything, then I would not rule out the possibility that he often intentionaly spoke like one.

 

OK, so now you're arbitrarily redefining "how and where" to mean "how and where and also when". That's, uh, dubious. And there's not enough about relativity in there. There is however too much about feces.

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

also refer to my post in regards just before the one you made about him turning lightside, im sure that covers it.

[didymos]

OK, I just realized this has somehow turned into the WoT version of the Parrot Sketch. And that's...kinda awesome actually.

[Jblaylock]

and even the GloD says he's gone, and if he somehow WAS floating around im very sure that SOMEONE from the darkfriend camp would have noticed by now and had one of the forsaken or even SH pay him a visit and kick his ass for training rand.

 

 

Possible. But no more probable than what I said. It's all speculation, and my speculation is just as valid as yours.

[Barid Bel Medar]

it is obviously a Troll. Just ignore it.

 

Seriously, who actually can say that stuff with a straight face.

 

 

I'm not ignoring it. There are different levels of death in WOT. There's dead, then there's dead by balefire, then there's dead in a metaphorical sense. Perhaps Asmo ceased to exist. before he was Asmodean he was Joar Addam Nesossin. Rand severed his connection to the True Power, his connection to the Dark One. He was considering changing sides. When he changed from light to dark, I bet it could have been said that Joar Addam Nesossin died, and Asmodean was born. Perhaps he changed back to light, and Asmodean died.

 

It is a joke.

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

OK, I just realized this has somehow turned into the WoT version of the Parrot Sketch. And that's...kinda awesome actually.

 

HAHAHA just watched it, very similar indeed XD

[Barid Bel Medar]

and even the GloD says he's gone, and if he somehow WAS floating around im very sure that SOMEONE from the darkfriend camp would have noticed by now and had one of the forsaken or even SH pay him a visit and kick his ass for training rand.

 

 

Possible. But no more probable than what I said. It's all speculation, and my speculation is just as valid as yours.

 

Ill post one more time and then im done.

 

Unfortunately, yours is not vaild. YOu actually have to make sense and have evidence for it to be vaild. You dont.

 

The DO said asmodean was dead. thats evidence. "death took him." thats evidence. Quoting Star Wars... thats nothing.

 

The arugment you make is akin to "Rand is a Rabbit." Its vaild because RJ never said he wasnt a rabbit, even though everything points to him being a person. So a rabbit is just as likely.

 

If you dont want your theory destroyed, dont post or post some evidence to back it up.

[Jblaylock]

it is obviously a Troll. Just ignore it.

 

Seriously, who actually can say that stuff with a straight face.

 

 

I'm not ignoring it. There are different levels of death in WOT. There's dead, then there's dead by balefire, then there's dead in a metaphorical sense. Perhaps Asmo ceased to exist. before he was Asmodean he was Joar Addam Nesossin. Rand severed his connection to the True Power, his connection to the Dark One. He was considering changing sides. When he changed from light to dark, I bet it could have been said that Joar Addam Nesossin died, and Asmodean was born. Perhaps he changed back to light, and Asmodean died.

 

It is a joke.

 

 

I am not a troll. I am dead serious. Just because you dissagree with me does not mean that I'm a troll or that my viewpoint is wrong. The whole series if full of stuff that supports my line of reasoning above. For you to deny that and call me a troll is just, well, narrow minded, stuborn, and unwelcoming of new users.

[Barid Bel Medar]

it is obviously a Troll. Just ignore it.

 

Seriously, who actually can say that stuff with a straight face.

 

 

I'm not ignoring it. There are different levels of death in WOT. There's dead, then there's dead by balefire, then there's dead in a metaphorical sense. Perhaps Asmo ceased to exist. before he was Asmodean he was Joar Addam Nesossin. Rand severed his connection to the True Power, his connection to the Dark One. He was considering changing sides. When he changed from light to dark, I bet it could have been said that Joar Addam Nesossin died, and Asmodean was born. Perhaps he changed back to light, and Asmodean died.

 

It is a joke.

 

 

I am not a troll. I am dead serious. Just because you dissagree with me does not mean that I'm a troll or that my viewpoint is wrong. The whole series if full of stuff that supports my line of reasoning above. For you to deny that and call me a troll is just, well, narrow minded, stuborn, and unwelcoming of new users.

 

I said you were trolling beacuse you say "there is heaps of stuff" but never show anything. Show some credible evidence.

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

You can hardly fault us when someone comes in with a theory and we shoot it down only for you to defend it when there is little basis for that defense. Show us quotes or something that give substance to the claim that he's alive.

[Jblaylock]

it is obviously a Troll. Just ignore it.

 

Seriously, who actually can say that stuff with a straight face.

 

 

I'm not ignoring it. There are different levels of death in WOT. There's dead, then there's dead by balefire, then there's dead in a metaphorical sense. Perhaps Asmo ceased to exist. before he was Asmodean he was Joar Addam Nesossin. Rand severed his connection to the True Power, his connection to the Dark One. He was considering changing sides. When he changed from light to dark, I bet it could have been said that Joar Addam Nesossin died, and Asmodean was born. Perhaps he changed back to light, and Asmodean died.

 

It is a joke.

 

 

I am not a troll. I am dead serious. Just because you dissagree with me does not mean that I'm a troll or that my viewpoint is wrong. The whole series if full of stuff that supports my line of reasoning above. For you to deny that and call me a troll is just, well, narrow minded, stuborn, and unwelcoming of new users.

 

I said you were trolling beacuse you say "there is heaps of stuff" but never show anything. Show some credible evidence.

 

 

I don't need to post evidence. My reasoning has been that the evidence posted by others against my argument is speculative, interpretable, vague statements made in a way that was clearly avoiding a direct answer, or a direct denial of Asmodean's continuing existance.

 

 

"Death took him" doesn't mean he died. It could mean other things, which have already been touched on. It's not solid evidence. Its reasonable to believe he died, but not solidly established or proved.

"He is roadkill" does not mean he died. I won't even go there. For you to use that means that you are accepting your personal interpretation of a metaphor as valid evidence, which, by rule, would mean that you would have to accept my interpretation as evidence as well.

"How and Where he died" could be reffering to an event that has not happend yet. If he died later on, then the how and where are irelevant to the DO being able to ressurect him.

 

I'm not saying he still lives. I'm simply saying that there has been no definate quote saying clearly that he has actualy died in the sense that he no longer exists in the story.

 

Why so many are getting so darn angry over something as silly as me having a different viewpoint... I haven't a clue. All I can say is, grow some thicker skin? Don't let a viewpoint upset you so much, simply because it's a different viewpoint than your own. I have no problem with people reasoning against my viewpoint. But to get mad at me for having it in the first place, that is just silly.