Are any of the disks fake?

[nophone]

As far as we know, all the disks are accounted for. Rand has a discussion with Moraine once, about weather one is real when he see's it's broken, this is in book 5 I believe. The thing is that all of these disks are accounted for right? 7 of them right? But some of them were found broken when they were found right?

[Zyntras]

afaik all of the seals have been at least tested if they are made of heartstone, and at that time noone knew how to create it anymore (perhpas the forsaken, but it was never affirmed)

 

all but the one taim gave to rand (if it was checked, it would have been of screen, but i dont believe so, because he gave it directly to bashere?)

[dovien]

Well it is possible that one or more of the seals is a fake but the only purpose in supplying a fake seal would be to make Rand think there was more or less time until the Dark One breaks free and, considering all the other indicators, how much time is left is going to be a moot point very shortly.

[Luckers]

The state of the seals are...

 

1. Found broken at the Eye of the World.

2. Found broken in Falme. Originally found in Maradon by Domon--was whole until Rand's fight with Ishamael.

3. Found broken in Falme. Possessed by Turak--was whole until Rand's fight with Ishamael.

4. Found whole in Tear.

5. Found whole in the Panarchs Palace--broken sometime during the trip from there to Salidar.

6. Found whole in Rhuidean.

7. Presented whole by Taim to Rand.

 

There are no indications any of them where fake. One might have thought so from the fact that Taim gives one to Rand, yet Demandred persues that seal (which was given to Bashere) quite sincerely, indicating the Shadow believes it to be real.

[FarShainMael]

In tFoH48, Nynaeve is preparing to leave Luca's circus and packing her things. She feels evil oozing from the wrapped seal that she carries, 'as if the Dark One really was trying to break through'. When Rand touches the seal that Taim handed him, his PoV gives no such sensation. This made me wonder if that seal is a fake. If it is, several questions arise (see my posts on Bashere), including: where's the real seventh seal? Is it the AS symbol at the top of the tower in Rhuidean, where Rand fought off the Darkhounds?

[Zyntras]

the taim seal being a fake would make sense if taim realy is a stasis boxed forsaken / has funky people talking in his head ;p

[Elend]

In tFoH48, Nynaeve is preparing to leave Luca's circus and packing her things. She feels evil oozing from the wrapped seal that she carries, 'as if the Dark One really was trying to break through'. When Rand touches the seal that Taim handed him, his PoV gives no such sensation. This made me wonder if that seal is a fake. If it is, several questions arise (see my posts on Bashere), including: where's the real seventh seal? Is it the AS symbol at the top of the tower in Rhuidean, where Rand fought off the Darkhounds?

 

Nynaeve seems to have a talent for this type of stuff, so I wouldn't look too closely into the fact that Rand doesn't feel the evil. Remember, no one else seemed to get the same feeling from it, IIRC.

[nophone]

Being made of heart stone isn't enough. They could have made fake ones back int he AoL to prevent The propper ones from being located. I mean it's strange that the people of the AoL lived all over the entire world, but they were all found so near the same area, and not in the blight (unless you count the first one). Moraine did verify some of them in her own way, and I am confident in Nyneves assessment of the evil in the disk she found.

[Byzantine279]

The reason for that is actually rather mundane. Lew Therin and the 100 companions went insane on the instant the seals were made. As such it is likely they just fell to the ground on the spot and were only gathered later, after the breaking had begun. And that forced the seals to remain in the same area.

[nophone]

The reason for that is actually rather mundane. Lew Therin and the 100 companions went insane on the instant the seals were made. As such it is likely they just fell to the ground on the spot and were only gathered later, after the breaking had begun. And that forced the seals to remain in the same area.

 

The breaking went on for a very long time. Hundreds of years, oceans were formed as other dried up and mountain ranges sprung up, The earth folded in on it's self... there's no reason seals shouldn't be found in Seanchan or The land beyond the waste.

[Zyntras]

the amyrlin seat whatcher of the seals ...

 

at one point the WT had all 7 seals (at least they knew where all of them were) until the trolloc wars, where they went *missing* (afaik :o)

[nophone]

the amyrlin seat whatcher of the seals ...

 

at one point the WT had all 7 seals (at least they knew where all of them were) until the trolloc wars, where they went *missing* (afaik :o)

 

hmmmm quite interesting...

[Luckers]

the amyrlin seat whatcher of the seals ...

 

at one point the WT had all 7 seals (at least they knew where all of them were) until the trolloc wars, where they went *missing* (afaik :o)

 

hmmmm quite interesting...

 

 

I highly doubt that Elisane Tishar knew that the Aiel had one of the seals--if she had then she would have known far too much about the Aiel to leave them alone. Same goes for the one in the Eye of the World. If that was ever known then it should have remained known.

 

It's entirely possible that the title 'Watcher of the Seals' was an empty one, but even if it wasn't she never knew where all were.

[Byzantine279]

Well, the tower was burned during the Trolloc wars, and it was then that the recordings of their location was lost. One can only assume the tower burned and all the Aes Sedai who had the locations of the seals committed to memory died before they had an opportunity to write it down. Or were so busy fighting the trollocs they just forgot.

[nophone]

Well, the tower was burned during the Trolloc wars, and it was then that the recordings of their location was lost. One can only assume the tower burned and all the Aes Sedai who had the locations of the seals committed to memory died before they had an opportunity to write it down. Or were so busy fighting the trollocs they just forgot.

 

Logically I agree with Luckers, but they way the dumb a$$ Aes Sedai work, it's more likely that you're right. Think about it... of all the things lost since the breaking, how is it possible that they forgot how to travel? You think this would have been one of the most used/useful Aes Sedai 'technologies' that exists. And somehow everybody that knew how to channel a gateway up and forgot about it? Shenanigans.

 

I think about this all the time when i read the books. Considering the amount of time it seems to take to teach somebody this talent & how useful and practical it is, there's no possible way it could have been forgotten so long as Aes Sedai are still alive.

 

Exo facto, anything could have happened to their memory of the seals, no matter how important the information was.

[Val Mickey]

How is it that the AS forgot Traveling? The land kept changing so much and for so long that they couldn't really learn the place. And where would they go? You should at least vaguely know the place you want to go - and there was no such thing. Plus they were scattered.

 

The metaphysics of the seals - well, nothing makes sense. I like to think that the Bore had extended all over Randland (covering the area where the Longing exists) and the seals are a patch on the Bore and also have a geographical basis to it - kinda like seal 1 in the north, seal 2 in the south etc. Move one too far from its spot, and channel tremendous amounts of OP around it, and then hit it - and it breaks. Fortunately we'll never know. What I don't understand is if the Amyrlin hid the seals, how come they lost the record of the one at Tanchico? Or at least any AS looking at it should go "Is that.."

[chuckievi]

How is it that the AS forgot Traveling? The land kept changing so much and for so long that they couldn't really learn the place. And where would they go? You should at least vaguely know the place you want to go - and there was no such thing. Plus they were scattered.

 

Except Rand showed just how fast one can learn a spot from making a very short gateway. Unless somehow no one ever knew that before, then there is plenty of time to show how to make a gateway. Additionally Sorilea showed Cadsuane how to make a gateway, and she can't even weave one herself. That says to me that they literally lost the knowledge, and if they can lose the knowledge of how to Travel, then it doesn't stretch the imagination that they could lose the location of the seals. Again as Luckers pointed out, if they knew to begin with.

[Durinax]

the one I have is fake. . .

[Elend]

It takes a lot of power to Travel and its implied that the founders of the Tower were all more like "apprentice" Aes Sedai, if even that. Its entirely conceivable none had the necessary power or knowledge to open a Gateway at that time.

[FarShainMael]

the one I have is fake. . .

 

You must be Demandred and Mesaana merged!

[nophone]

How is it that the AS forgot Traveling? The land kept changing so much and for so long that they couldn't really learn the place. And where would they go? You should at least vaguely know the place you want to go - and there was no such thing. Plus they were scattered.

 

Sheninagins, They could have used skimming instead. In any event, it seems to only take hours to get familiar enough with a place to travel there. Even if they moved like "all the time" it would still save a lot of time to hang out for a hot min and figure out a traveling spot. If you accidentally made it into a place that you wanted to go to that no longer exists... well you'd atleast see what was coming through.

 

I can imagine accidentally channeling into the ocean.... WOOSH.

 

as far as the Aes Sedai that founded the tower being in training... well somebody was able to put together the time to get to the green man and clean a pool of saidin. I have to believe that there were plenty of competent Aes Sedai around long after the breaking.

 

I understand the craft of creating Angreal/Ter Angreal going away... for several reasons. Anything simple enough for anyone to make probably seemed useless, or dangerous to mess up on. angreal on the other hand are almost certainly very very difficult to make.

[Maji]

the amyrlin seat whatcher of the seals ...

 

at one point the WT had all 7 seals (at least they knew where all of them were) until the trolloc wars, where they went *missing* (afaik :o)

 

hmmmm quite interesting...

 

 

I highly doubt that Elisane Tishar knew that the Aiel had one of the seals--if she had then she would have known far too much about the Aiel to leave them alone. Same goes for the one in the Eye of the World. If that was ever known then it should have remained known.

 

It's entirely possible that the title 'Watcher of the Seals' was an empty one, but even if it wasn't she never knew where all were.

 

 

I have to agree that the title of "Watcher of the Seals" was more of an empty title or rather an honorary title that perhaps started out as comfort to people, if it dates back to 'The Breaking'. A lot of chaos was going on during 'The Breaking' perhaps people thought the DO could break out of his prison during that time, no one knew when The Dragon would be born again after all. I'm sure few prophecies, if any, were around at that time.

 

I believe Bashere has the seals now? There is a theory floating around about him being a DF. I'm not sure I believe that theory but it still begs the question, are the seals really that safe? Rand knows/believes he has to break the seals to battle the DO, hopefully it's just not before he is ready for the Last Battle.

[Swithin]

as far as the Aes Sedai that founded the tower being in training... well somebody was able to put together the time to get to the green man and clean a pool of saidin. I have to believe that there were plenty of competent Aes Sedai around long after the breaking.

 

I understand the craft of creating Angreal/Ter Angreal going away... for several reasons. Anything simple enough for anyone to make probably seemed useless, or dangerous to mess up on. angreal on the other hand are almost certainly very very difficult to make.

 

I noticed something recently that I thought was funny. I was poring over ACoS ch 41 for another thread, and it turns out that Shadar Logoth had Power-Wrought fences. I thought that was kind of strange, since Aridhol was a post-Breaking state. Apparently enough skilled channelers were still around to spend time on infrastructure and plop art (that or Aridhol was built over an extant site, planned around a grid of indestructible fences.)

[Elend]

How is it that the AS forgot Traveling? The land kept changing so much and for so long that they couldn't really learn the place. And where would they go? You should at least vaguely know the place you want to go - and there was no such thing. Plus they were scattered.

 

Sheninagins, They could have used skimming instead. In any event, it seems to only take hours to get familiar enough with a place to travel there. Even if they moved like "all the time" it would still save a lot of time to hang out for a hot min and figure out a traveling spot. If you accidentally made it into a place that you wanted to go to that no longer exists... well you'd atleast see what was coming through.

 

I can imagine accidentally channeling into the ocean.... WOOSH.

 

as far as the Aes Sedai that founded the tower being in training... well somebody was able to put together the time to get to the green man and clean a pool of saidin. I have to believe that there were plenty of competent Aes Sedai around long after the breaking.

 

I understand the craft of creating Angreal/Ter Angreal going away... for several reasons. Anything simple enough for anyone to make probably seemed useless, or dangerous to mess up on. angreal on the other hand are almost certainly very very difficult to make.

 

Except the ones who made the Eye were full Aes Sedai for the most part. They specifically mention this within the columns. And everyone who made the Eye died. Another reason why the founders of the Tower weren't really Aes Sedai, just pretenders. Also, the Eye was made during the Breaking, not after, IIRC.

[nophone]

the amyrlin seat whatcher of the seals ...

 

at one point the WT had all 7 seals (at least they knew where all of them were) until the trolloc wars, where they went *missing* (afaik :o)

 

 

 

I have to agree that the title of "Watcher of the Seals" was more of an empty title or rather an honorary title that perhaps started out as comfort to people, if it dates back to 'The Breaking'. A lot of chaos was going on during 'The Breaking' perhaps people thought the DO could break out of his prison during that time, no one knew when The Dragon would be born again after all. I'm sure few prophecies, if any, were around at that time.

 

I believe Bashere has the seals now? There is a theory floating around about him being a DF. I'm not sure I believe that theory but it still begs the question, are the seals really that safe? Rand knows/believes he has to break the seals to battle the DO, hopefully it's just not before he is ready for the Last Battle.

 

Maybe it wasn't empty. Like, perhaps they were aware of these, but at some point had all the other ones in check, and this information was lost. Aes Sadai do seem good at losing things.

 

To me this begs the question though, if the title just isn't for show, and they never had the locations of the DO seals... what would the title represent instead? are there other "seals" of significance?

 

PS, i'm on a reread right now, working on aCoS