Sealing the DO away

[skalors3]

As I am fairly new to the forums (though I've been reading since 94), I am not sure if this has ever been mentioned. However, I'll bring it up just in case. I have always believed since KoD that Rand is going to have to use Saidin and Saidar to re-create the Dark One's prison but he's going to use the TP as a buffer to that seal. Any thoughts?

[Ashaman Kovan]

Saidin and Saidar together makes pretty good sense. But I don't think the TP does. I don't see how the power that stems from the DO (And that he has exclusive control over) could be safely or effectively used in the process. That's just me though.

[Lynchgrinch]

I agree with Ashaman Kovan, though I thought that this might be the case to begin with, but the more i think about it, you cant realy use the TP to buffer against the DO...it's like using water to damn a river or something ridiculous like that.

 

The TP is the DO.

[skalors3]

I'd have to disagree. The DO tainted Saidin because he could touch it (whether physically or otherwise). The same would be true if Saidin and Saidar were used. There has to be some sort of buffer seperating the DO from Saidin and Saidar though. Something that won't allow the DO to taint the world. I see no other reason for Rand to be able to use the TP from a storyline stand point either.

[a5m]

"He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and the three shall be one."

[Ashaman Kovan]

I'd have to disagree. The DO tainted Saidin because he could touch it (whether physically or otherwise). The same would be true if Saidin and Saidar were used. There has to be some sort of buffer seperating the DO from Saidin and Saidar though. Something that won't allow the DO to taint the world. I see no other reason for Rand to be able to use the TP from a storyline stand point either.

 

Unless the reason he was able to touch Saidin was purely because it was only that half that was used. We've read since the beginning that the most wonderful things were done when both halves were used in unison. Maybe the "buffer" you're talking about is only conceivable when using both halves.

The reason Rand was able to use the TP is from his link with Moriddin. Who is exclusively using it. And it might not even have been an accident. Could have been an attempt to cause him to become addicted to it and try and use it again. Although if that is the case, the plan failed.

[GYLD]

RJ: Okay, then you know about the political struggles that were going on, and the different plans to try and end the War of the Shadow, and seal up the….and why various groups thought that one plan or the other was the best way to go. And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant”17 , which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it. The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted. And his plan worked, except for that one side effect of the backblast which tainted saidin and caused him and the men there with him to go mad there and then, and other male Aes Sedai to go mad slowly as they touched the Source and began to absorb bits of the taint. But that’s why saidar was not tainted, because there were only men there channeling during this act of sealing up the Dark One’s prison.

 

I'm afraid that's not the reason.

[Ashaman Kovan]

RJ: Okay, then you know about the political struggles that were going on, and the different plans to try and end the War of the Shadow, and seal up the….and why various groups thought that one plan or the other was the best way to go. And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant”17 , which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it. The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted. And his plan worked, except for that one side effect of the backblast which tainted saidin and caused him and the men there with him to go mad there and then, and other male Aes Sedai to go mad slowly as they touched the Source and began to absorb bits of the taint. But that’s why saidar was not tainted, because there were only men there channeling during this act of sealing up the Dark One’s prison.

 

I'm afraid that's not the reason.

 

I stand debunked then lol. Thanks, I don't think I'd ever seen that quote. I always thought people saying Saidar would have been tainted too was a matter of opinion.

Still though, I don't think the TP would work.

[GYLD]

RJ: Okay, then you know about the political struggles that were going on, and the different plans to try and end the War of the Shadow, and seal up the….and why various groups thought that one plan or the other was the best way to go. And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant”17 , which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it. The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted. And his plan worked, except for that one side effect of the backblast which tainted saidin and caused him and the men there with him to go mad there and then, and other male Aes Sedai to go mad slowly as they touched the Source and began to absorb bits of the taint. But that’s why saidar was not tainted, because there were only men there channeling during this act of sealing up the Dark One’s prison.

 

I'm afraid that's not the reason the Dark One was able to touch Saidin.

[GYLD]

Disregard that last post. I clearly have no idea how to edit posts.

[Ashaman Kovan]

It happens lol.

[Siobhan]

And it might not even have been an accident. Could have been an attempt to cause him to become addicted to it and try and use it again. Although if that is the case, the plan failed.

 

That's somewhat been my thought, as well.

 

There was talk, early on, of Rand being made to kneel before and serve the DO -- I think that's what allowing him access to the TP is all about. Tempt him, turn him, drive him to do the DO's work for him. Came pretty darn close to working, too.

 

The buffer idea is an interesting one, but it seems to me that the DO would just absorb the TP back into himself, allowing him to reach the layers of saidar and saidin. And since the DO can deny access to the TP as easily as he can grant it, Rand may not even be able to use it in the final moments of struggle.

[Ashaman Kovan]

And it might not even have been an accident. Could have been an attempt to cause him to become addicted to it and try and use it again. Although if that is the case, the plan failed.

The buffer idea is an interesting one, but it seems to me that the DO would just absorb the TP back into himself, allowing him to reach the layers of saidar and saidin. And since the DO can deny access to the TP as easily as he can grant it, Rand may not even be able to use it in the final moments of struggle.

 

Exactly.

[Byzantine279]

Honestly it's obvious how the DO is going to get sealed away. Rand is going to lock the DO in the same room as Elayne for a few hours. By the time he gets out he will seal himself up to escape.

 

On a slightly more serious note I doubt any of us are going to figure out how it is going to end the WoT has just never been that easy to predict.

[Ashaman Kovan]

On a slightly more serious note I doubt any of us are going to figure out how it is going to end the WoT has just never been that easy to predict.

 

Very true. But I think we can figure out ways it WON'T end. The whole TP thing being one of those ways, IMO.

[skalors3]

On a slightly more serious note I doubt any of us are going to figure out how it is going to end the WoT has just never been that easy to predict.

 

Very true. But I think we can figure out ways it WON'T end. The whole TP thing being one of those ways, IMO.

 

Rofl AK. The idea of Rand using the TP really insults your sensibilities doesn't it?

 

It is the most plausible explanation available, IMO. LTT already said in one of his rantings that he needed a buffer. It is the only 'power' we know about that could potentially be that buffer and Rand can channel it. The DO is not omniscient. If he doesn't know Rand can channel the TP, he can't take it away.

[Ashaman Kovan]

On a slightly more serious note I doubt any of us are going to figure out how it is going to end the WoT has just never been that easy to predict.

 

Very true. But I think we can figure out ways it WON'T end. The whole TP thing being one of those ways, IMO.

 

Rofl AK. The idea of Rand using the TP really insults your sensibilities doesn't it?

 

It is the most plausible explanation available, IMO. LTT already said in one of his rantings that he needed a buffer. It is the only 'power' we know about that could potentially be that buffer and Rand can channel it. The DO is not omniscient. If he doesn't know Rand can channel the TP, he can't take it away.

 

What's the AK after "Rofl" mean?? Oh nvm, my initials I assume. But no, it doesn't insult or offend me or anything like that lol. I just don't think it will happen is all.

Saying Rand "Can" channel the TP is a bit of a stretch I think. He HAS channeled it. Once. Either through his link with Moridin or because the DO let him in hopes he would become addicted. And let's say the DO doesn't know that he used it, (Which I find hard to believe) he would certainly know if Rand tried to use it in close proximity to the Bore and immediately cut him off. Or cut Moridin off which would be the same thing basically. Also, the TP is as different from the OP as Saidin and Saidar are different. So with two books left I don't think Rand would have the time, inclination or opportunity to try studying it and learn some super "Buffer Weave" with it. Look how long it took him to figure out, and how hard it was even with both CK to cleanse Saidin. I don't imagine re-sealing the Bore will be any easier.

 

Edit: Here's a quote I just saw in another thread.

 

AOL Chat #1 - 27 June 1996

AaronB20 asks: Can you clarify who can tell when one is using the True Power?

RJ: No one can tell if you're using the True Power except the Dark One, of course

[Siobhan]

It is the most plausible explanation available, IMO. LTT already said in one of his rantings that he needed a buffer. It is the only 'power' we know about that could potentially be that buffer and Rand can channel it. The DO is not omniscient. If he doesn't know Rand can channel the TP, he can't take it away.

 

The problem I'm having with this is that, from what's been said in the books, it seems to me that you can't accidentally draw on the TP; the DO has to choose to allow you access. And if you did somehow accidentally access it, then the DO would know by virtue of the fact that the TP is himself.

 

So...how could Rand draw on the TP, yet somehow manage to stay under the DO's radar? I guess the only answer would be Moridin. If the link between Moridin and Rand is an unexpected anomaly that the DO isn't aware of, and Rand is actually channeling the TP through Moridin, then...well, it might just work.

[Eht Slat Meit]

I'm not inclined to believe that the DO will be sealed away, though I do believe the effort will be made and fail spectacularly sealing away Fain instead of the Dark One itself. This is the -Last Battle- not the -Last- Battle, and therein lies the key - this is the last battle between the Dragon and the Dark One, between the Pattern and that which is not. It can only end in destruction of the Dark One and perhaps that essence as well, the essence of light which makes the Lord Dragons what they are. The Dragon does not turn the Wheel, and he who does not believes he does will learn too late (KC, paraphrase).

 

I think the blade of light (all the power which is the Dragon) and three becoming one (saidin, saidar, tp) represents that final battle, the essence of the Dragon tied to the Dark One. After all, the symbol which is that of the Flame and the Tear (saidin against saidar) represents two parts of a whole, one which could be perceived as Order or the Pattern. Countered by the darkness that is outside the pattern, Chaos, with the two representing the whole of Creation.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Hey bro...You just blew my minnnd. ;]

[Eht Slat Meit]

Hey bro...You just blew my minnnd. ;]

 

I only had a few puffs on the pipe!