The Towers of Midnight are in Seanchan

[fosterrl]

Since the Towers of Midnight are in Seanchan, do you think that Rand has to go there for some reason. Any ideas as to what the towers are? Don't forget that there is a Seanchan prophecy that the Dragon must bow to the Empress on the crystal throne.

[OptimusPrime]

Isnt it a military complex, or an arena or something? Pretty sure its something related to fighting.

[Byzantine279]

It was confirmed that no scenes (save the one chapter that already happened) will be taking place on the main seanchan continent, so it is likely just a neat name.

[Lambada]

Actually RJ just stated that the action wouldn't be moving to Seanchan. That doesn't rule our a mini visit (say Tuon grabbing the Crystal Throne....), or another little interlude scene like Rand and Aviendha already had.

[Byzantine279]

True, though she won't be grabbing the throne (that was planned for an outrigger, which is why Mat/Tuon are pretty much immortal in this, since they had an outrigger planned they couldn't die in the battle). But i suppose a chapter or less scene would still fit in, though how is what i wonder, unless it is demandred laughing evilly as he sits upon the crystal throne, having been using sermihage the entire time. (what, i would find that to be ironic to say the least, and its probally the one thing no else else has guessed since its so ridiculous :P )

[Lambada]

Actualy, Tuon could easily Travel to the room where the Crystal Throne is, grab it and retreat back through the gateway. I'd say this is almost certain to happen (possibly offscreen though...) How else can she get Rand to kneel before the Crystal Throne?

 

That would leave Seanchan itself unconquered, and thus the plot for the Outriggers open.

[Byzantine279]

Hmm, that would be a neat idea. It would be interesting to see how Rand (assuming he keeps most of LTT's memories) will react to seeing it, it is after all a very powerful ter'angreal.

[Demiandre]

Tuon, as Empress, is the Court of the Moon. She herself say that she is the Crystal Throne, swearing to her would be kneeling to the Crystal Throne. I don't remember where. Maybe in tGS...

[Luckers]

Tuon, as Empress, is the Court of the Moon. She herself say that she is the Crystal Throne, swearing to her would be kneeling to the Crystal Throne. I don't remember where. Maybe in tGS...

 

 

You guys do realise thats a fabricated prophecy. I'm not saying that Fortuona's belief in it won't create problems--but there is no pre-requisite that Rand kneel to the Crystal Throne. It may never happen, and certainly Rand won't submit--he binds the Nine Moons of serve him, not the other way round.

[Demiandre]

Hey, right! I forgot for a moment ><

[Lambada]

Personally I can't see how it won't happen.

 

Unless Rand can pull out an original of the Prophecies somewhere to prove to Tuon that hers is the corrupted version, then I can't see just one of them happening.

I think it likely that both will happen - post VoG Rand might well understand the word compromise.

 

"I'll kneel to you, if you let me direct the Last Battle." kind of thing.

 

Afterall, both believe theirs is right, and neither can prove that the other version is wrong.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Personally I can't see how it won't happen.

 

Unless Rand can pull out an original of the Prophecies somewhere to prove to Tuon that hers is the corrupted version, then I can't see just one of them happening.

I think it likely that both will happen - post VoG Rand might well understand the word compromise.

 

"I'll kneel to you, if you let me direct the Last Battle." kind of thing.

 

Afterall, both believe theirs is right, and neither can prove that the other version is wrong.

 

It doesnt matter, its prophecy.

 

Its simple.

 

Binding the Nine Moons is not (as far as we know) fabricated. It will come to be.

 

Essanik Cycle is a fabrication. It isnt real.

 

It doesnt matter what people think. its prophecy.

 

As to the crystal throne... it may happen. but its not even at Imfaral.... Its in Seandar. So thats no reason to go to Imfaral.

[Lambada]

It does matter though.

 

Tuon belies that Rand kneeling is prophecy. She will do everything she can to make that happen, to fulfill what she believes is prophecy - even going so far as to put a domination band around his neck to make him kneel if she thinks it is necessary.

 

She will only stop trying to do that if someone can prove to her that hers is the corrupted version. No-one can.

 

Prophecy doesn't exclusively define what will happen. It only lists some things - plenty of scope there for the pattern to allow the kneeling of Rand.

 

Also, on a side note:

 

You've confused the Essanik cycle and the KC cycle.

 

The KC cycle is known in Randland (Bind the nine moons)

The KC cycle is also known in Seanchan, carried across by Hawkwings armies (Kneel to the CT)

 

The Essanik cycle is separate to that, known only by Seanchan, and foretold by several damane / channelers in Seanchan. We only know one bit of the Essanik cycle (Blind Man standing on his grave from the end of TGS).

 

Also I only used grabbing the CT to clear up a misquote of Jordan - someone said we'd never go to Seanchan, I just picked an example for how we could.

[Barid Bel Medar]

It does matter though.

 

Tuon belies that Rand kneeling is prophecy. She will do everything she can to make that happen, to fulfill what she believes is prophecy - even going so far as to put a domination band around his neck to make him kneel if she thinks it is necessary.

 

She will only stop trying to do that if someone can prove to her that hers is the corrupted version. No-one can.

 

Prophecy doesn't exclusively define what will happen. It only lists some things - plenty of scope there for the pattern to allow the kneeling of Rand.

 

Also, on a side note:

 

You've confused the Essanik cycle and the KC cycle.

 

The KC cycle is known in Randland (Bind the nine moons)

The KC cycle is also known in Seanchan, carried across by Hawkwings armies (Kneel to the CT)

 

The Essanik cycle is separate to that, known only by Seanchan, and foretold by several damane / channelers in Seanchan. We only know one bit of the Essanik cycle (Blind Man standing on his grave from the end of TGS).

 

Also I only used grabbing the CT to clear up a misquote of Jordan - someone said we'd never go to Seanchan, I just picked an example for how we could.

 

your right, its possible (both the prophecy bit and the going to Seanchan)

 

But I still dont think the Senchan prophecy is going to happen. Although I do admit the logic and merit of your theory, and wont be suprised if you are right.

 

As for going to Imfaral, it seems a massive red herring to me. Its mentioned in the "Wind" sequence, and "Towers of Midnight" is Imfaral, i think its too obvious for RJ (and BWS). Also, I dont see how anyone could go to Imfaral as a part of the story, and have it important enough that the Title of the whole books is named after it.

 

It makes no sense, this book is not introducing any new story threads, its mostly concluding plotlines, the way i see it, in light of this, it is highly unlikely that a whole new "City" (Fortress really) on a whole other continent will be introduced so late in the story.

 

Now this does not rule out the plot being tied to Imfaral, Tuon's actions could be tied in with the use or history of the Towers of Midnight, I just dont think that we will actually see it on screen (or if we do, a short flashback.)

 

End note: This is not aimed at you personally Lambada, its aimed at the whole thread.

[Byzantine279]

Well, honestly i think if rand hears their version of the prophecy post VoG he may just kneel. After all, what better way to bind the nine moons to him than by using her own belief to do so?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Well, honestly i think if rand hears their version of the prophecy post VoG he may just kneel. After all, what better way to bind the nine moons to him than by using her own belief to do so?

 

Thats something that annoys me. Everyone assumes Rand is going to perfect post VoG. He has learned to laugh/cry. But he is not back to old Rand. He will still distrust AS, remember that the use of the TP will have further effects. He also has the slash from Fain's dagger. (Which makes the person suspicious. Remember Mat carrying that Dagger and the effects it had on Elaida) The taints effects are still there, they didnt just disappear. He still remembers the Box and such events, they didnt jsut suddenly get better.

 

No, he wont be Super Rand and now all fixed he has had his epiphany. yes, he has recovered some, but i wouldnt go that far, he isnt Farmer Rand now.

 

Now as I said earlier, the theory iteself is plausable, he could very well kneel, but based on him being "super Rand" after VoG is rubbish. (Not to offend) :)

[Byzantine279]

Why, Barid? He remember thousands and thousands of lives, if only for an instant (who knows if he will retain any of it, it is possible, but unlikely), any residual remnants would make all the pain he has suffered in his life laughable, imagine how much he has gone through in every single life he has ever lived, it would make any single event in his current life nothing. I don't think he will be his old self, i think he will be the Hero that everyone can root for now. He was darkening the room, now i think just by being there it will brighten, and his ta'veren influence will do a 180 and only do good rather than only doing evil now.

 

You are saying he wont be "super rand" because of all that he has gone through. But what is that compared to a thousand thousand lifetimes of experience? Even if only a glimmer of the memories remains, the tiniest spark of hope, it will be enough to always remind him that no matter what he will be OK. That was part of how Ewgene was able to take a similar experience, she used the pain of the tower to drive her, I believe Rand will use the hope that the DO can be defeated once and for all to drive him. And once you have a driving force like that no amount of pain will be able to drive the good from your heart only the DO winning once and for all could make someone who realizes that lose hope. And so long as you have hope...

 

He won't be perfect, but he will be a true Hero now. I can only assume that means realizing he must be humble enough to kneel before her, if that is what it takes.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Why, Barid? He remember thousands and thousands of lives, if only for an instant (who knows if he will retain any of it, it is possible, but unlikely), any residual remnants would make all the pain he has suffered in his life laughable, imagine how much he has gone through in every single life he has ever lived, it would make any single event in his current life nothing. I don't think he will be his old self, i think he will be the Hero that everyone can root for now. He was darkening the room, now i think just by being there it will brighten, and his ta'veren influence will do a 180 and only do good rather than only doing evil now.

 

You are saying he wont be "super rand" because of all that he has gone through. But what is that compared to a thousand thousand lifetimes of experience? Even if only a glimmer of the memories remains, the tiniest spark of hope, it will be enough to always remind him that no matter what he will be OK. That was part of how Ewgene was able to take a similar experience, she used the pain of the tower to drive her, I believe Rand will use the hope that the DO can be defeated once and for all to drive him. And once you have a driving force like that no amount of pain will be able to drive the good from your heart only the DO winning once and for all could make someone who realizes that lose hope. And so long as you have hope...

 

He won't be perfect, but he will be a true Hero now. I can only assume that means realizing he must be humble enough to kneel before her, if that is what it takes.

 

The reasons i have stated.

 

The Taint. The effects of True Power. The Dagger Wound. All the crap he has been through.

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Dallas Borders 14 November 2009 - Aubrey Pham reporting

 

The black/dark aura around Rand is partially, but not entirely, an effect of True Power usage.8 There will be consequences from Rand's True Power use.

 

That would be extremely bad storytelling if it happened.

 

 

Also, Brandon said this.

 

 

gammahunter reporting

 

 

I overheard someone asking about Rand at the end of the book. Sanderson said that Rand is going to begin to stabilize in the next book.

 

Doesnt sound much like he will become really humble in the near future.

 

There is no point really in a discussion about it, we dont have enough to go on to create a vaild argument either way.

 

Ill not believe that he suddenly becomes a god because he has memories.

 

But hey, you may be right, and ill admit i was wrong when i see it.

[Byzantine279]

And i will if/when i am wrong. and yea, we got a whole couple sentences after he "opened his eyes" i suppose we will have to wait and see, not too much longer now, is it.

 

ohh boy... i think the anticipation has started getting a bi... *splat* *was literally crushed by the anticipation*. I hate waiting :(.

[Barid Bel Medar]

And i will if/when i am wrong. and yea, we got a whole couple sentences after he "opened his eyes" i suppose we will have to wait and see, not too much longer now, is it.

 

ohh boy... i think the anticipation has started getting a bi... *splat* *was literally crushed by the anticipation*. I hate waiting :(.

 

hahaha, I agree, september has gone soooooooooooooooooooo slow. I hate even THINK of october!!

 

For now, I think i will have to settle with these new emoticons.

 

 

and my personal favorite, Demandred:

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Yes, thats right, we havent figured one out yet )

 

 

Note: Sorry for all of the emoticons, i love them haha

[MagnusDahlerNorling]

Those are old Wotmania emoticons :D. I think Rand will take some time to change completely, and will still be heavily burdened by what has happened to him. Even if he had a flash of insight, he can't have that happening inside his head constantly. It took him more than two years to get to this state.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Those are old Wotmania emoticons :D. I think Rand will take some time to change completely, and will still be heavily burdened by what has happened to him. Even if he had a flash of insight, he can't have that happening inside his head constantly. It took him more than two years to get to this state.

 

THEIFSSSSSESS!!!

 

hhaha. Well whoever made them they are great.

 

And yes, I agree with you, but just have to wait and see really.

[fosterrl]

He also has to bow before the Amyrlin, and she's supposed to be very mad at him.

[Byzantine279]

It never says anything about him bowing Time, only about Egwene showing him her anger (although, interestingly that doesn't mean its necessarily directed at him).

[Luckers]

It never says anything about him bowing Time, only about Egwene showing him her anger (although, interestingly that doesn't mean its necessarily directed at him).

 

Indeed.

 

Egwene: Rand Al'thor I am SO ANGRY!!!

Rand: Oh. Ok. I don't care.

Egwene: WHAT!?

Rand: Read my lips. I. Do Not. Care.

Egwene: I AM THE AMYRLIN SEAT!!!

Rand: It's pronounced Tamyrlin, darling.

Egwene: WHAT?

Rand: It has a 'T' in it. Tamyrlin. Say it with me. Tamyrlin.

Egwene: GDJOHAOGHEGHNODJ! *dies*