The True Power, Sexes and Lews Terin

[Solmyr]

In interesting thought occured to me today. We know that both male and female channelers tap into the same source of TP - the DO. Unlike the OP, where we have saidin and saidar.

 

We also know that with the OP, because of saidin and saidar, male and female channelers use different weaves to achieve the same result. I am not sure this applies to all weaves, but certainly to most, otherwise characters wouldn't quote the fish and bird saying 10 times a book.

 

Yet when Rand channels the TP, even tho it seems alien and unknown, he immediately channels to destroy his collar (we're not told what weave he uses, but lets assume something with fire) thn channels balefire to disintegrate Semi.

 

How could Rand know the weave for balefire with the TP? Two possible explanations exist.

 

1. Weaves woven with the TP work with both saidin and saidar weaves. This would make most sense, however, it makes the TP incredibly complicated, since it has to support twice as many weaves. Furthermore, certain weaves, like traveling, are described as different when performed with the TP as opposed to both saidin and saidar. But this is probably an exception to the rule. I wonder what would happen if Rand tries to create the weave for traveling (saidin) while using the TP. What about with saidar (if an AS shows him)?

 

In order to prove or disprove this theory we need a female PoV channeling the TP. And I doubt we'll see that in the series.

 

2. Lews Terin has channeled the TP. We have proof to support this. The madman recognizes the alien source and screams (with surprising sanity) that they better die than channel this. If he has, then Rand can know the weave from him. It has happened many times before with saidin. But then again we need to assume that LT is real and not just a voice Rand's madness created.

 

So if LT did channel the TP at some point - how and why? Is this why the seals are flawed? Or is it because he refrained from using it to place the seals that they are failing? We knew nothing about the TP in the first books, but lately we've been shown more and more of it. It leads me to believe it will have a part to play at the end.

[OptimusPrime]

Lews Therin didnt need to channel it to know what it was. Rand knew of it before he channeled it, and Lews Therin had more sources of information that a dead mans memories. Lanfear was famous, she searched for a power source useable by men and women alike, and she found the True Power. Thats the same woman who was obsessed with Lews Therin, Lews Therin also being the Champion of the Light, he had reason to be told about it without needing to use it himself.

 

Rand knew the True Power weave for balefire the same way he knew it when he first discovered balefire with no teacher. It was instinctive.

 

I lean towards point 1 myself, that the True Power offers some synergy with weaves, meaning a newly granted True Power user would be able to use it straight away, but must learn where the crossovers with regards to possible weaves begin and end.

 

The seals are flawed because they are made of cuendillar and are holding back the True Power, which cuendillar is vulnerable to. If a damm was made out of paper, it would be flawed, gimped, because paper doesnt hold water back. Cuendillar is the paper, the True Power is the water.

[FarShainMael]

The TP is derived from the OP by the DO, isn't it? So an experienced channeller shouldn't have any problems handling it. Well, not those sort of problems, anyway!

 

[Loophole]

The TP is derived from the OP by the DO, isn't it? So an experienced channeller shouldn't have any problems handling it. Well, not those sort of problems, anyway!

 

 

I don't believe so, it seems that the TP is the balance to the OP to me. It is the essence of the DO not an extension of the true source. (to many sayings with true in it  :o)

 

Seems to me though the more power a channeler holds the more instinctive their channeling. Also the TP seems to easily tilt towards destruction, probably not hard to break things with it.

[Thor]

He doesn't need to have gone anywhere near it to recognize it. I've never been near an elephant but I'd still know one when I see one.

 

I'm sure they would have Mierin's research reports and know all about it.

[StefanR]

"Question: In essence, are One Power and True Power balefire the same.

 

He answered that the True Power is another source of power, that Aes Sedai were researching another source, like a different form of battery, to power their weaves and that in for balefire, what it does is essentially the same between both power sources, but that it has different affects on the individual using the power source (this appeared to be a reference to what True Power does to its user)."

 

That might help?

 

There's another quote somewhere that I can't find that pretty much says that the weaves for the OP and TP are the same

[Val Mickey]

Could the TP be similar to the taint? ???

[Noreallyjustsomeguy]

When Rand wields the True Power, he "wove enormous spears of Fire and Air."  Oddly, however, when he weaves the balefire that obliterates Semirhage, it is "a single weave" of "the power he did not understand."  (TGS ch 22) Later, however, when he is about to kill Tam, it says that "The weaves [plural] for balefire spun before him."  (TGS ch 47) The weaves [plural] for balefire are mentioned elsewhere as well, so its pretty clear that its not a typo in the Tam confrontation, and the phrase "a single weave" is too specific to be a typo in the Semirhage confrontation.

 

So, while the outward effect is the same, the way in which the power is channeled seems to be different.  This seems to be all but inevitable, given the differences in the Sources.

 

There is a third option, however, regarding the question of how Rand knew how to use the True Power.  Using the True Power is never done without the Dark One's explicit permission for each specific use.  Indeed, Semirhage immediately knows that the Great Lord has personally betrayed her when Rand uses the True Power.  Lews Therin does not say that the True Power is "from HIM," he says that "is HIM."  Perhaps, when using the True Power, the channeler does not need to know how to weave it.  The channeler thinks it, and the Dark One personally realizes it in reality, since it fits his purposes.  The channeler thinks the what, and Shai'tan takes care of the how.

 

Perhaps it is not always like that, but that sort of direct intervention is possible with the True Power, since unlike the One Power, which the Creator doesn't mess with, using the True Power requires the Dark One's personal approval.

[Scaw]

There is also a third reason why Rand might know how to channel the TP:

His link to Moridin, which may also be the reason the DO was even able to allow Rand to use the TP (there is more than one theory regarding this and one by Luckers somewhere on this board too).

[Theleos]

It was my understanding that the TP is very different from OP. I never invisioned the TP having five different types of flows, like how the OP has Air, Water, Fire, Earth, and Spirit. Because of this the TP would be easier to understand.

 

I also got the impression that Rand did not understand that he had used the TP. He said to Cadsuane something like "Do you beleive that I can bend the pattern to my will? That I could kill you without moving or channeling? That if I willed it the pattern would make your heart stop?" Obviously not an exact quote but its essentially what he said. and Cadsuane did believe.

 

So what I am trying to say is that its not like Rand wove balefire with the TP as much as just "willed" balefire to form.

 

And I do agree that LT didnt use balefire to have to recognize it. I would imagine he would have studied it quite thuroughly in order to be familiar with the DO and his "energy"

[Noreallyjustsomeguy]

It was my understanding that the TP is very different from OP. I never invisioned the TP having five different types of flows, like how the OP has Air, Water, Fire, Earth, and Spirit. Because of this the TP would be easier to understand.

 

Well ... the description is this:

 

He screamed, in both rapture and rage, and wove enormous spears of Fire and Air.

 

(TGS ch 22, emphasis added)

 

So, it seems similar in at least that way.  Which makes sense in a way ... when the Dark One's power is manifested within the Pattern, it has to fit the rules of the Pattern.  Which no doubt pisses ol' Shai'tan off enormously.