Did Robert Jordan base the Black Tower on the Waffen SS?

[Ashajaan06]

I always saw a very heavy resemblance between the two. Furthermore I don't think it's a coincidence, since RJ was an expert on WW2. Having an interest in that era.

 

I base my claim on the following;

 

1) The uniform - pure black uniform. This uniform is then further supplemented with two silver pins on the neck collar. A high neck collar. This is similar if not the same as the Waffen SS attire of a pure black uniform with twin silver pins at the neck.

 

2) The name - Asha'man translates into "defender/guardian." Schutzstaffel = "guardians." Staffel has no direct English translation in this context, it means as much as "series."

 

3) The purpose - Both served as the private army of a conqueror hellbent on overthrowing and taking over neighboring nations. The Asha'men and the Waffen SS have a similarity in that they were both created to be a weapon with no mercy, to be pointed where the leader sees fit.

 

4) The ranks - Attack Leader and Storm Leader. Seriously? That is almost taken word for word from the Waffen SS ranks of Sturmführer (stormleader) and Scharführer. I mean doesn't leave too much to the imagination there.

 

5) Behavior - Both were newly established orders who borrowed heavily on past symbolism and language. Both institutions breed arrogance and self-importance to a fault. Not to mention the building of the Black Tower is somewhat comparable to the projects around the castle Wewelsburg, the projected home base of the SS that was never completed.

 

6) Army recruitment - Both were pan-national armies. The Waffen SS had volunteers from Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Belgium, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, France, Hungary, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Ukraine, Cossacks, etc.. The Black Tower likewise is pan-national in its recruitment. Taking men from all nations to serve their leader and purpose.

 

7) Children - A point is made of the use of children in the forces. Not sure if it an analogy, but it is also curious how repeatedly others express disgust at seeing "so young Asha'men." The Waffen SS was also infamous for the amount of 16-17 year olds in its ranks. By 1944 the average age of a Waffen SS soldier was 19, due to the huge amount of 15-19 year olds in their ranks. Which is always odd how in action movies all SS soldiers seem to be 30+, when in truth most should be portrayed by 16-17 year olds.

 

8) Training - Another similarity seems to be the toughness in training. In WW2 no other organization had so many training deaths or suicides as the Waffen SS. RJ similarly puts the BT in a similar light, always making a point of how the BT takes constant losses due to the merciless training its recruits face.

 

 

 

 

Some of the above seem a stretch. Is there anyone that disagrees with any of the above? They are after all just personal observations of mine. Or did I miss any other similarities between the two institutions?

 

I agree there are apparent similarities- I always thought so especially with the 'M'Hael' title that Taim gives himself and who the Ashamen all seem to refer to him as the 'leader'. I am not exactly well-versed on the details of WW2 history but I do recall a central figure in the Nazi party having a similar title. Maybe its a stretch but I have thought about the possible similarities

[aunt_pol]

It makes sense to me, anyway, that RJ would base the BT, as it has come to be, on an organisation like that. The BT as Rand intended, and the BT as Taim intends, are pretty much two different things, but the basic points stand.

[Barid Bel Medar]

All of yyour points fit in and RJ probably did take a few things from them.

 

However, I do not think it is purely based on the WSS, RJ created all of his nations and organizations with a mix of various different real examples.

 

Example, the Aiel are not just based on one peoples, but numerous civilization behaviours and cultures.

 

To say that the BT is basically a magical WSS is wrong. Yes, there is much taken from them, but you cannot say BT= WSS. Period.

 

It is a bit more complex than that, while I agree, it seems there is a big, big similarity between the two, I would not look at the WSS historically and say word for word that is how the BT is.

 

I am not saying that is your point, and that you are suggesting this, I am just replying in a general way.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

All of yyour points fit in and RJ probably did take a few things from them.

 

However, I do not think it is purely based on the WSS, RJ created all of his nations and organizations with a mix of various different real examples.

 

Example, the Aiel are not just based on one peoples, but numerous civilization behaviours and cultures.

 

To say that the BT is basically a magical WSS is wrong. Yes, there is much taken from them, but you cannot say BT= WSS. Period.

 

It is a bit more complex than that, while I agree, it seems there is a big, big similarity between the two, I would not look at the WSS historically and say word for word that is how the BT is.

 

I am not saying that is your point, and that you are suggesting this, I am just replying in a general way.

 

 

Well I am not saying BT = WSS.

 

I am saying BT is based on the WSS.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I said I agree with you.

 

BUT

 

It is not based SINGULARLY on the WSS.

 

Like all of the other countries and organizations in the WoT, it is a mixture of various different things.

 

Even though I agree that the WSS probably makes up the largest percentage of it, there are definitly others.

 

Sorry if you thoguht i was accusing you of saying BT=WSS

 

I am not saying that is your point, and that you are suggesting this, I am just replying in a general way.