Mesaana: Fail or Success?

[Crael123]

@ Druid  Demandred isnt taim. also, why rank Lanfear so low? she... well yeah.. but she i think could have done the most out of everyone. she was stronger than Rand and had him at a point were he still wouldnt kill woman.

 

the DO sacrificing semirhage reminds me of some chess move where you take out a queen (most valuable piece) to checkmate your opponent. you lose your best player but win the war. as would have happened if Semi had succeeded.

[MikeRiley]

@ Druid  Demandred isnt taim. also, why rank Lanfear so low? she... well yeah.. but she i think could have done the most out of everyone. she was stronger than Rand and had him at a point were he still wouldnt kill woman.

 

Could of done isn't done. If Lanfear is going to be ranked on her success or failure as a Chosen then she was a complete failure. She even failed at being a turncoat. If you're in a long race with somebody and you start out by sprinting and you stay ahead for a time but end up losing the race because you exhausted your strength early, you still lost. You might have been winning for a time but does it matter after it's over?

 

Same goes for Mesaana and the breaking of the White Tower. She broke it for a short period of time but failed to keep it broken so it's a big fail on her part.

[TheAngryDruid]

@ Druid  Demandred isnt taim. also, why rank Lanfear so low? she... well yeah.. but she i think could have done the most out of everyone. she was stronger than Rand and had him at a point were he still wouldnt kill woman.

 

the DO sacrificing semirhage reminds me of some chess move where you take out a queen (most valuable piece) to checkmate your opponent. you lose your best player but win the war. as would have happened if Semi had succeeded.

 

Oops, typo. I was going to put that in Moridin's section (I think Moridin = Taim), I know the Taimandred thing is dead. I should have proofread.

 

Lanfear. Yeah, when I started out, I thought she'd be up there towards the other end of the scale. Of course, she may have been responsible for more than we know, but she seemed to spread chaos and confusion among the Chosen as much or more than in Randland. Asmodean was responsible for splitting the Shaido off (and the Bleakness, to a degree). I just couldn't point to anything she's really done.

 

Of course, I could have forgotten something. Or just plain messed up (Taimandred, cough, cough).

 

[Durinax]

@ Druid  Demandred isnt taim. also, why rank Lanfear so low? she... well yeah.. but she i think could have done the most out of everyone. she was stronger than Rand and had him at a point were he still wouldnt kill woman.

 

the DO sacrificing semirhage reminds me of some chess move where you take out a queen (most valuable piece) to checkmate your opponent. you lose your best player but win the war. as would have happened if Semi had succeeded.

 

Oops, typo. I was going to put that in Moridin's section (I think Moridin = Taim), I know the Taimandred thing is dead. I should have proofread.

 

Lanfear. Yeah, when I started out, I thought she'd be up there towards the other end of the scale. Of course, she may have been responsible for more than we know, but she seemed to spread chaos and confusion among the Chosen as much or more than in Randland. Asmodean was responsible for splitting the Shaido off (and the Bleakness, to a degree). I just couldn't point to anything she's really done.

 

Of course, I could have forgotten something. Or just plain messed up (Taimandred, cough, cough).

 

asmo was completely responsible for the bleakness, if he didnt put the tattoos on couladin there wouuld have been no bleakness and the shaido would follow rand

[Lambada]

@ Druid  Demandred isnt taim. also, why rank Lanfear so low? she... well yeah.. but she i think could have done the most out of everyone. she was stronger than Rand and had him at a point were he still wouldnt kill woman.

 

the DO sacrificing semirhage reminds me of some chess move where you take out a queen (most valuable piece) to checkmate your opponent. you lose your best player but win the war. as would have happened if Semi had succeeded.

 

Oops, typo. I was going to put that in Moridin's section (I think Moridin = Taim), I know the Taimandred thing is dead. I should have proofread.

 

Lanfear. Yeah, when I started out, I thought she'd be up there towards the other end of the scale. Of course, she may have been responsible for more than we know, but she seemed to spread chaos and confusion among the Chosen as much or more than in Randland. Asmodean was responsible for splitting the Shaido off (and the Bleakness, to a degree). I just couldn't point to anything she's really done.

 

Of course, I could have forgotten something. Or just plain messed up (Taimandred, cough, cough).

 

asmo was completely responsible for the bleakness, if he didnt put the tattoos on couladin there wouuld have been no bleakness and the shaido would follow rand

But didn't the KC say that Rand would break the Aiel with the way of the leaf? So if Asmo hadn't forced it, Rand would still have revealed it - jsut for some other reason. Thus the bleakness would still have happened.

[darth_hel]

Yes the KC said that, but it was a prophecy of what Asmo's actions would go on to cause. These events were prophesied because he would cause them not just because it would happen whether he was there or not.

[Sagacious Lu]

I think getting yourself raped by a fade is, by definition, failure.  The thing is the argument could be made that she's done more damage than any other DF to date.  Granted the WT has been reunited but she did break it in the first place, she deposed Siuan (potentially one of Rand's most formidable allies) and was ultimately responsible for locking Rand in a box.  It seems to me that Rand's imprisonment is at least as responsible for his psychological issues as the taint making that a huge coup.  You also have to consider how much harder the AS were hit by the Seanchan raid because they were effectively paralized by their own divisions.  Sure, Egwene just undid some of the damage Mesaana did to the WT but it's still crippled with a lot of ground to make up.  Not only that her disguise is still (mostly) intact.  All in all she's been extremely nasty, especially when you consider how ineffective her peers have been.

[Crael123]

@ Druid  Demandred isnt taim. also, why rank Lanfear so low? she... well yeah.. but she i think could have done the most out of everyone. she was stronger than Rand and had him at a point were he still wouldnt kill woman.

 

Could of done isn't done. If Lanfear is going to be ranked on her success or failure as a Chosen then she was a complete failure. She even failed at being a turncoat. If you're in a long race with somebody and you start out by sprinting and you stay ahead for a time but end up losing the race because you exhausted your strength early, you still lost. You might have been winning for a time but does it matter after it's over?

 

Same goes for Mesaana and the breaking of the White Tower. She broke it for a short period of time but failed to keep it broken so it's a big fail on her part.

 

well that is a good point about Lanfear... maybe i should make a Lanfear: Fail or Success thread lol. but she had the most potential out of all of them i think we can all agree

[Alleluia_Cone]

My only issue with the rankings I have seen is that I feel that Lanfear should almost be ranked apart from the other Forsaken because her goals are so in contrast to the others.  Basically, she wanted to challenged the DO with the help of Rand, and in so doing, did everything in her power to make him more capable on that front.  

 

Granted, she failed utterly in getting Rand to side with her, but looked at another way, she was actually quite influential in contributing to the development of Rand.  Which is to say that, if she were actually working for the greater good, you'd almost have to rank her behind Rand and just behind Moiraine on the good guys' list.  Think about it, she got Rand to start using the One Power as Selene, prevented Callandor from being stolen, then prevented Asmodean from getting the access key, which gave Rand a tutor, etc.  Imagine where Rand would be without her!

 

So I guess my conclusion is, that if we are ranking the Forsaken in terms of how their actions helped the DO, then Lanfear would have to rank dead last by a mile (even with her elimination of Moiraine).