Grendeal

[algspkr]

I think we may see Grendeal disposed of in the prologue. In an Elayne PoV after Rand loses his hand in KoD we see her wondering about Rand's location and activities. She says that he was to the south east at which point he lost his hand, and then he was more distant to the north west, which is the direction of Arad Doman, Grendeal's location.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Graendal is about to bail out of Arad Doman. Previous books have made it quite clear that she has no intentions of staying should Rand come after her and he is now moving into Arad Doman in force. She has nothing to gain be staying as she already lost control of Ituralde in either Winter's Heart or Crossroads of Twilight. She overplayed her attempts at manipulation and he started actively avoiding messages from the "king."

[algspkr]

Graendal is about to bail out of Arad Doman. Previous books have made it quite clear that she has no intentions of staying should Rand come after her and he is now moving into Arad Doman in force. She has nothing to gain be staying as she already lost control of Ituralde in either Winter's Heart or Crossroads of Twilight. She overplayed her attempts at manipulation and he started actively avoiding messages from the "king."

You may be right, but somehow I see her believing her efforts to still be fruitful, and her hiding place secure.

[Luckers]

I don't see her being captured, but i think there will be a confrontation between her and someone... im hoping it'll be the Wise Ones, they havn't had enough adventure. Following that she'll leave Arad Domon.

[Guest Majsju]

I don't think Graendal would run away just because Rand is coming there. She would know pretty much what Rand is up to, and not see it as an immidiate threat to herself.

A truce between Rand and Tuon is hardly in the interests of the shadow, and with Semirhage gone Graendal might be the one in the best position to screw up such a truce.

[Kaznen]

But it's also possible the Semi knows where most of the other Forsaken are. She might let slip where Grendal is, then Rand would gather his possie and strike at her power base.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I doubt Semirhage will give up anything.

[Guest cwestervelt]

RobertAlexWillis: I doubt Semirhage will give up anything.

 

I don't think Semirhage has ever had the pleasure of dealing with someone like Cadsuane. Semirhage's biggest asset was always her reputation for cruelty. Since not much of that is remembered anymore so she doesn't have that going for her anymore. Besides, Cadsuane doesn't care a fig for reputations and so is unlikely to be intimidated in any event. If it comes down to a test of wills, Cadsuane could probably break Semirhage like an egg.

[Dionysus]

I don't think so.

 

Im just praying that Cadsuane dies at Semirhage's hands, we know that the old hag is due to pay the piper.

[Guest Majsju]

While I think Cadsuane has quite a good chance at breaking Semirhage enough to get at least some information, I'm convinced it will take a little too long for her to get information in time for Rand's trip to Arad Doman, since Rand seems to be heading there about now.

 

And of course, even if Cadsuane could make Semirhage spill out everything she knows extremely fast, nothing says Semirhage actually knows where Graendal is, or who she's posing as. She propbably knows Graendal is "somewhere in Arad Doman", but that's a bit too vague for anyone to go hunting, especially since Graendal keeps quite a low profile.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Personally, I like Cadsuane. Other than Verin and Moiraine, she is the only Aes Sedai that I can honestly say that about. Of all Aes Sedai, she is the only one that I consider to be honest in her interaction with others. She treats people in a manner consistant with that their actions. Act like a spoiled child, she treats you like a child. Act like you are better than everyone else and she takes you down a notch. Act like an adult and she treats you like one. Fawn over her every wish and she treats you like the spineless wimp you are. Show her that you are deserving of respect and she gives you respect.

[Rumor]

I agree about Cadsuane...I like her and I especially think her role in getting Rand to learn that "hard" is not the same thing as "strong" is paramount to the series (and to laugh and cry again).

 

As for Graendal, I think she's a survivor and won't stick around to lose her battle in Arad Doman...for all we know, she may have already left. Nothing since the prologue to CoT indicates she is still there that I remember.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I don't think Semirhage has ever had the pleasure of dealing with someone like Cadsuane. Semirhage's biggest asset was always her reputation for cruelty. Since not much of that is remembered anymore so she doesn't have that going for her anymore. Besides, Cadsuane doesn't care a fig for reputations and so is unlikely to be intimidated in any event. If it comes down to a test of wills, Cadsuane could probably break Semirhage like an egg.

 

I respectfully disagree. She had to gain that reputation somehow. But it will be interesting to watch. If anyone CAN do it, Cadsuane is the one. I like her too. Even if she would be slapping me around if we ever met. Usually when I grin.

[Luckers]

Cadsuane is my favorite character in the series... she has no of the high jinks most the others do, she's just terribly self-possessed.

 

And yes, whilst Semirhages reputation isn't ill-deserved... and whilst she does seem to have an incredibly strong will, Cadsuane's is probably stronger. I look forward to seeing it... moreover, i hope we get to see it from Semirhage's POV... thats how i'd write it.

[Guest cwestervelt]

cwestervelt: I don't think Semirhage has ever had the pleasure of dealing with someone like Cadsuane. Semirhage's biggest asset was always her reputation for cruelty. Since not much of that is remembered anymore so she doesn't have that going for her anymore. Besides, Cadsuane doesn't care a fig for reputations and so is unlikely to be intimidated in any event. If it comes down to a test of wills, Cadsuane could probably break Semirhage like an egg.

 

RobertAlexWillis: I respectfully disagree. She had to gain that reputation somehow. But it will be interesting to watch. If anyone CAN do it, Cadsuane is the one. I like her too. Even if she would be slapping me around if we ever met. Usually when I grin.

 

You are entitled to do so, but, seeing how Graendal was the original subject of the thread, I feel a compulsion to attempt to clarify my statements. I did not mean to say that Semirhage's reputation was unearned because it was. What I wanted to say was that her reputation for cruelty allowed her to intimidate her captors during the Age of Legends. Now, not much about her actions are known, so she isn't going to be able to intimidate with her very presence anymore.

[algspkr]

For those saying that Semi will hold back what she knows, keep in mind that she wants to pull down the rest of the forsaken making her the only Chosen. From her point of view it may be in her best intrest to give up the locations of the rest.

 

Also remember that Moghedean's crime and punishment are not known to any of the forsaken besides her and Moridin. Semi won't have that added incentive to keep silent.

[Guest cwestervelt]

It would be not be at all surprising for Semirhage to be an absolute coward once she realizes people aren't intimidated by her. That is one of the reasons I said Cadsuane will break her like an egg.

 

Cowardice is the mother of cruelty.

 

Michel Eyquem De Montaigne

http://www.cybernation.com/quotationcenter/quoteshow.php?id=7300

[lanfear]

Ill be so mad if someone gets to Semirhage and kills her before they get to torture her. (or whatever theyre going to do)

After inflicting so much pain she might acually get off on it. Cadsuane might have to make her wear a pink dress and watch episodes of the brady bunch reapeatedly just to break her.

[Guest cwestervelt]

She's more likely to spill her guts long before Cadsuane or anyone else gets started on her. Semirhage enjoys inflicting pain. Nothing says she enjoys receiving it. The odds are that she is very much afraid of pain. All Cadsuane needs to do is prove she isn't intimidated by Semirhage. After that Semirhage will start thinking about all of the things she would do to Cadsuane if their positions were reversed. Semirhage would be begging for mercy simply as a result of her own imagination. They won't even need to call for the salt and rope. That is what Juilin asked for isn't it? I didn't bother to actually look it up.

[Luckers]

I disagree. Semirhage has been calm and in control at every step of the way. In her there is a strong will, and a whole load of bravery to back it up. I don't see her breaking easily, and would be disapointed if she did.

 

She is no schoolyard bully, and despite what our parents tell us, not all those who enjoy inflicting do so because of an innate cowardice.

 

For those saying that Semi will hold back what she knows, keep in mind that she wants to pull down the rest of the forsaken making her the only Chosen. From her point of view it may be in her best intrest to give up the locations of the rest.

 

Also remember that Moghedean's crime and punishment are not known to any of the forsaken besides her and Moridin. Semi won't have that added incentive to keep silent.

 

Nevertheless i dont see this happening. It would rankle her pride too much to look cowardly, and she would know that if she did anything to endanger the victory of the Shadow in a way that could be tied to her, she would be endangering her future, not securing it--wether or not the Shadow wins.

 

What i mean is, yes, whilst she might try to take out the compition if she could do it in a way that wouldn't be traced to her, she would never do it in such an obvious betrayal of the shadow... she would know the Dark One would destroy her utterly if she did.

[RobertAlexWillis]

She may not enjoy pain (although sadism and masochism are often mixed in a person), but she sure can deal with it. Remember, the calm, sneeringly condescending conversation she has with Rand et al was held as she stood there with a knife in her shoulder and blood running down the front of her dress. The most likely scenario to me is that Shaidar Haran comes for her, since she failed. Its hard to keep ANY place totally shadow free, and he can locate her, unless Rand severs her tie to the Dark One. And by "comes for her", I mean "kills her dead".

[Luckers]

I don't see her dying out of hand.

 

I wonder, will anyone think to bond her? It works well enough against Toveine and her lot, and they had as much reason to act against a bond held by male channelers at the begining, for all that they've become cozy now. Relatively speaking.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I'm not sure how bonding would work on her ... she's very strong, what would happen if an Asha'man who was weaker bonded her? Alanna couldn't do anything with Rand. I'm not saying it can't happen, but would it end up as a good thing? It may be that the only two stronger than her in that little group are Logain and Rand. I don't see Rand taking that route .... Maybe Narishma? But how would a Warder bonding someone else work?

[algspkr]

I don't see her dying out of hand.

 

I wonder, will anyone think to bond her? It works well enough against Toveine and her lot, and they had as much reason to act against a bond held by male channelers at the begining, for all that they've become cozy now. Relatively speaking.

I'm not sure how bonding would work on her ... she's very strong, what would happen if an Asha'man who was weaker bonded her? Alanna couldn't do anything with Rand. I'm not saying it can't happen, but would it end up as a good thing? It may be that the only two stronger than her in that little group are Logain and Rand. I don't see Rand taking that route .... Maybe Narishma? But how would a Warder bonding someone else work?

There are two types of bonds used by AM. There is the one that seems nearly identical to the AS warder bond which is used on "wifes". And there is a modified version of that bond which was used on Toverine and Co. which forces obedience. If she is bonded it will be with the modified bond.

 

On a side note, does anyone think any of the AM will want to bond her?

[RobertAlexWillis]

I somehow missed that difference algspkr. Can you provide a reference, please? I just thought that Logain's ability to dominate the Aes Sedai if he chose was because he was stronger than they were in the Power.