Prince of the Ravens?

[sumquy]

Does Mats title of PotR make him the heir to the Seanchan throne? Like women are Daughters of the Nine Moons and men are Princes of the Raven?

[JenniferL]

No, the Prince of Ravens is the Consort of the Empress and the commander of her armies. Only women may inherit the Crystal Throne for reasons that are never explained in the series.

[Kathleen]

But he controls the Seachan Armies now?

[sumquy]

Only women may inherit the Crystal Throne

 

Are you sure about that? I seem to recall that Suroth thought Galgan was trying to take her place as leader of the Return and become the first Emperor in 900 years or such. I don't remember anywhere that men can't ascend to the throne, just that it hadn't been done in a long time. I can't find it now, but I think I remember Tuon thinking that she had brothers as well as sisters that were in contention for the throne with her as well.

[Durinax]

Only women may inherit the Crystal Throne

 

Are you sure about that? I seem to recall that Suroth thought Galgan was trying to take her place as leader of the Return and become the first Emperor in 900 years or such. I don't remember anywhere that men can't ascend to the throne, just that it hadn't been done in a long time. I can't find it now, but I think I remember Tuon thinking that she had brothers as well as sisters that were in contention for the throne with her as well.

the last emperor went insane, its been women since. personnally I believe its cause the royal family is full of potential channellers, and sitting on the throne sparks it somehow, thats why the last emperor went insane, but he didnt know how to really channel so he couldnt do any damage.

 

what I am curious about is whether this is the first time in seanchan history that the whole royal family has been exterminated (except for one) and if its not then their claim to being decended from Luthair is a complete lie

[sumquy]

the last emperor went insane

 

Is that in the BWB or something?

[Durinax]

I believe it was during the ebou dar arc that someone commented about emperors and emperesses and said that

[JenniferL]

But he controls the Seachan Armies now?

 

Yeah, I realized after I posted that, that it's just my assumption and not actually in the text. Bad FAQueen.

 

And yeah, if no man has inherited the Crystal Throne in 900 years, I think its safe to extrapolate that they can't.

[Kathleen]

Ok, I read the book pretty quick and I'm known to miss things like that. If it is true that he is in control of the armies, would he be able to make the deal with rand and use the armies to  fight with the band or something and that way the seachan would be on their side but not all this leashed channeler stuff?

[farthammer]

Given how brutal the competition seems to be for the top spot, it may just be men are too much at a disadvantage since women control the big weapons (damane).  It'd make sense if Tuon wanted to become a trainer for such a reason, or at least partially.  The deal with Mat is pretty interesting because even though he's not Hawkwing reborn he's following a similar pattern militarily, except with the medallion he doesn't have the particular vulnerability Artur thought he had.  The Band is a fully voluntary army which is a pretty major philosophical difference that the Seanchan are unable to live up to in their current form.  Even marath`damane chose their involvement in the scene he finally marries Tuon.  I think that difference is what makes the Band better, not just morally, but so much more effective than relying on slavery could achieve.

[sumquy]

If it is true that he is in control of the armies, would he be able to make the deal with rand and use the armies to  fight with the band or something and that way the seachan would be on their side but not all this leashed channeler stuff?

 

Prob so. But the prophecies still say that Rand has to "bind the Nine Moons to serve him". I don't see the Seanchan giving up damane. though. They are an integral part of what makes the Ever Victorious Army ever victorious.

[Durinax]

If it is true that he is in control of the armies, would he be able to make the deal with rand and use the armies to  fight with the band or something and that way the seachan would be on their side but not all this leashed channeler stuff?

 

Prob so. But the prophecies still say that Rand has to "bind the Nine Moons to serve him". I don't see the Seanchan giving up damane. though. They are an integral part of what makes the Ever Victorious Army ever victorious.

I dont think so, if fortuona chose no she could tell any seanchan to capture mat and take him out of the picture

[Kathleen]

If it is true that he is in control of the armies, would he be able to make the deal with rand and use the armies to  fight with the band or something and that way the seachan would be on their side but not all this leashed channeler stuff?

 

Prob so. But the prophecies still say that Rand has to "bind the Nine Moons to serve him". I don't see the Seanchan giving up damane. though. They are an integral part of what makes the Ever Victorious Army ever victorious.

I dont think so, if fortuona chose no she could tell any seanchan to capture mat and take him out of the picture

 

Mat is Taveran (sorry forget how it is spelled) so could that effect her reasoning/agreeing, especially if Rand is there too. She almost caved once for Rand alone and two taveran can be stronger influence than one.

[Durinax]

If it is true that he is in control of the armies, would he be able to make the deal with rand and use the armies to  fight with the band or something and that way the seachan would be on their side but not all this leashed channeler stuff?

 

Prob so. But the prophecies still say that Rand has to "bind the Nine Moons to serve him". I don't see the Seanchan giving up damane. though. They are an integral part of what makes the Ever Victorious Army ever victorious.

I dont think so, if fortuona chose no she could tell any seanchan to capture mat and take him out of the picture

 

Mat is Taveran (sorry forget how it is spelled) so could that effect her reasoning/agreeing, especially if Rand is there too. She almost caved once for Rand alone and two taveran can be stronger influence than one.

they way I interpretted this mat would make the decision without tuon being there, so thats why I said that

[sumquy]

if fortuona chose no she could tell any seanchan to capture mat and take him out of the picture

 

Could isn't would, and I don't think she would do that. She has first hand knowledge that he is a better general than anything the Seanchan could put in the field, so I think she would be more than satisfied to have Mat lead her armies for Rand. I also don't see the Seanchan fighting for the GLoD, or standing aside at TG. IMO most likely scenario is Rand meets Tuon again, and since he isn't dark Rand anymore she agrees (is bound) to serve him. Mat still has some stuff to do before then, but stuffing all those battle memories into his head and having him marry Tuon would be kind of a big waste of plot if he wasn't going to be a/the top general for the Seanchan.

[Kathleen]

I wouldn't put it past Mat to just put it in action and worry about how wifey will respond after. Though I can also see him trying to reason it out with her. Since they aren't talking "free the damane" they are talking use your "army to save the world" I can see her agreeing, which could be a form of her being bound to Rand. It would still be her word given to help him. Mat takes his orders more from Rand then Fortuona so......damn lost my train of thought spelling Fortuona..I think most of my point is there though...

[sumquy]

I would agree except for one word: "bind".

 

RJ loved putting stuff in the prophecies that nobody in current Randland understands, the oath rod being called a binder in the AoL and Tuon being able to channel is just too much I think. IMO Rand will swear her on an oath rod at some point. Whether by force or choice I don't know, but I think it will happen.

[Kathleen]

That could happen too...it could even be something like one of the conditions to them making this deal is it is sworn on the oath rod, or something to do with freeing damane (maybe at a later date) *shrugs*

[sumquy]

Why does everyone on these forums want the damane to be freed? I love damane. I wish they would make every arrogant AS in Randland into a damane! :D

[Kathleen]

I don't neseccarrily want them to be freed it just seems to be the biggest thing keeping the two sides from working together..that or being able to name who is the one in charge..which again Mat could be way to defuse that. Rand will see it as Mat is his man so He is in charge, The Seachan will see it as the Prince of Raven's is in charge and leading their army so they are in charge, and Mat will see it as he is responsible for everyone and the Dark One must be stopped and it doesn't matter which people are in control as long as they work together and the amries follow his orders.

[sumquy]

I don't know. Rand actually seems okay with it. Or at least cares more about TG than making Seanchan free the damane. Ironically, Mat probably has a bigger issue with it than Rand, and is in a better positions to do something about it.

 

I'm still not clear on exactly what his position with the Seanchan means though. That was my original question in this thread. If Tuon were to die would he become Emperor? That would be pretty funny!

[Kathleen]

yeah, I don't even know if he is in charge of the army and most of this theory rests on that...though he could soften up his wifey with some talk of this stuff and suggest it to her...I only added the damane thought for that literal binding comment, though I can't see Fortuona agreeing to swear to let them go. Maybe just that her army can fight with the band so she can't take it back..I don't really know..

 

I don't think I can picture his reaction to becoming emperor. I wonder what he would do. I'm thinking brain explode!

[JenniferL]

Why does everyone on these forums want the damane to be freed? I love damane. I wish they would make every arrogant AS in Randland into a damane! :D

 

I think most people in this day and age are disgusted by human slavery.

[Durinax]

Why does everyone on these forums want the damane to be freed? I love damane. I wish they would make every arrogant AS in Randland into a damane! :D

 

I think most people in this day and age are disgusted by human slavery.

well even the WT's training of women reminds me of slavery

 

1) if you dont follow very strict rules your beaten

2) you cannot leave a small area of land

3) your forced to wear one colour (does help break someone down)

4) your forced to do tedious and back breaking work

5) they control who your around

[sumquy]

Why does everyone on these forums want the damane to be freed? I love damane. I wish they would make every arrogant AS in Randland into a damane! :D

 

I think most people in this day and age are disgusted by human slavery.

 

But it's not this day and age. It's that one, and the AS need to learn humility more than any character group I've ever read about. Besides, it's not like it's forever. The wheel of time turns, ages come and go and what not!