A new power...

[brown_hound]

Thinking out loud en-masse is a wonderful thing.. Creator bless the forum!

 

 

The True Power is drawn directly from the DO.

 

What are everyone's thoughts on another power provided, and drawn directly from the Creator?

 

With all the 'yins' and 'yangs' to the series, there would be no surprise!

 

 

Speculate!

[Aquarius]

I would have thought that the Creator himself was the True Source.

[brown_hound]

I would have thought that the Creator himself was the True Source.

 

Would it then be safe to say there's a male and female half of the TP?

 

[FarShainMael]

Have a look at tEotW, Ch 51. here's what IdealSeek summarises from it:

 

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The Eye of the World

 

Chapter 51

 

Page 633 (HC); Page 754 (PB)

 

a blade of the Light

 

and safe from you in the Light

 

and that ordinary human face smiled at him in a way that chilled even through the warmth of the Light

 

and the endless howl redoubled as the blade of Light severed the cord

 

and wherever their light-eating swords swung

 

but a blade of light

 

but he shied back from the sword as if it truly were the Light itself

 

Each pulse along that black vein ate light

 

filling him with the Light

 

He quivered with the Light that suffused him

 

In the midst of the Light the void drifted

 

light and heat blinded it

 

Light filled him

 

Light filled his mind

 

Light lanced from the blade

 

of the Light

 

the awful radiance of light

 

The blessed Light

 

The Light

 

The Light

 

the light barely resisting the waves of dark

 

The Light blind you

 

the Light blinded his mind

 

The Light warmed the void

 

The Light wills it

 

The terrible heat of the Light

 

white light

 

Lots of communing with the Light there, suggesting to me that the Light is the opposite of the TP. The OP, OTOH, comes from the True Source, 'the driving force of the Universe'. It's not clear whether the TS is an artefact made by the Creator or part of His essence.

 

 

 

[FarShainMael]

I would have thought that the Creator himself was the True Source.

 

Would it then be safe to say there's a male and female half of the TP?

 

 

Apparently not. Recall that Mierin/Lanfear's objective in constructing the bore was to access a power source that both sexes could use. What she got was the DO!

 

[Luckers]

Ah, the Devine Power Theory re-asserts itself. I'm sorry I really do not like this idea--it would completely invalidate everything Rand's suffered through and done with saidin.

[FarShainMael]

Not objecting necessarily, but please tell us why you think that?

 

[MikeRiley]

I would say that the divine power is simply Saidin and Saidar and the creator broke the two in half to promote unity. If I'm wrong and such a power does exist, we won't see it at all in the series. There would have been no point to Rand's cleansing Saidin, there would have been no point to any of the male channelers going mad over the last few thousand years. It would take almost everything away from those major events by making them suddenly unimportant.

[Luckers]

If a Divine Power exists as a viable channiable power that will be offered by the Creator to aid mankind then one must presumse that he could have offered it prior to cleansing saidin. Everything Rand's suffered through and done in the interest of cleansing saidin (and living with it) would be invalidated by the Creator offering this power. He could simply have done so far earlier. You are speaking of an arc that was 10 books in the making.

 

I'm no fan of the dues ex machina either.

[MikeRiley]

Here's why we won't see a new Creator-source power:

 

IT IS NOT HERE.

It was not Rand's thought, making his skull vibrate.

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE

CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL.

 

The Creator is on the side, watching what will happen. He is leaving everything up to Rand and giving him the option of doing nothing, too. So the Rand-Moridin thought of the Creator being like a gardener and leaving the world to man to deal with would be fairly accurate.

[Morsker]

There's also this, even if it's old and paraphrased.

A Crown of Swords book tour 21 June 1996, Charleston - Brian Ritchie reporting

 

The universe is driven by saidin and saidar working against each other. They will not end up as the Light Power.

[FarShainMael]

OK, just thinking aloud here..

 

The TP is the DO (according to LTT, anyway). For me, in the same way, the Light is the Creator. That EotW chapter is quite interesting in that regard.

 

Now, the TP is only available to humans with the DO's permission (normally!). And in that same chapter, we hear the Voice saying: 'I WILL TAKE NO PART'. It seems likely that this is the Creator speaking; that, having infused the Light into His champion, he will withdraw, and let the 'CHOSEN ONE.. DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL'.

 

So no, the Creator would not have intervened; it was His purpose to have saidin/saidar available to humanity, and to have His champion cleanse it. And there's not going to be a 'deus ex machina'.

 

(Mike got there before me!!)

 

[brown_hound]

The Creator has spoken once in 13 books.. Why?

 

To enlighten and motivate a young Dragon Reborn...

 

Once.

 

I feel that at the time there was a need for the Creators influence, and therefore it was done as so...

 

Could we assume the Creator hasn't seen the need post tEotW to assist?

 

Rand has had all the pawns, and necessary bits and pieces to do all which was necessary to move 'towards' TG,

 

But TG itself? Vs the DO?

 

How could Rand defeat the DO with the TP being his own essence?

 

I think there's something 'lighter' to be seen here...

 

The power of the light? Nice ring...

 

 

[OptimusPrime]

I would have thought that the Creator himself was the True Source.

 

Would it then be safe to say there's a male and female half of the TP?

 

 

No.

 

The Creator/True Source works best when working together, as is depicted by the entire male and female channeler linking themes. The Dark One however, promotes seflishness, which makes it understandable as to why for example one True Power user cannot sense another channeling it.

 

I think Lews Therin unknowingly allowed the Dark One to strike at the Creator, reulting in the Taint.

 

[Kaznen]

Ah, the Devine Power Theory re-asserts itself. I'm sorry I really do not like this idea--it would completely invalidate everything Rand's suffered through and done with saidin.

Cool, somebody remembers what I first called the Creator version of the TP.  Look at the end of tGS and you will see evidence supporting the DP theory.

[FarShainMael]

Yes indeed.

'  I am here.  '

[Tom Sawyer]

I wouldn't be surprised if Rand ends up able to use some sort of Light Power.  All that stuff about Blades of Light and all did seem to reference some kind of power distinct from the (increasingly misnamed) One Power.  As Lews Therin said, the DO was able to taint saidin because they touched him with it in order to seal the Bore because they had to touch him with something.

 

Using saidin was just kind of like putting some duct tape on the Bore.  At some point, though, the prison has to be sealed completely so that it can be discovered again when the Second Age rolls around.  It makes sense that a complete seal could be made using the same power that the Creator used to seal up the DO in the first place, as opposed to some other power, which is only a hack to plug it up for a bit.

 

[Ishmayl]

Doesn't Moraine tell Nynaeve in tEotW that even having access to the One Power gives some protection vs. the Shadow?  That seems to imply that the One Power has something to do with the Light...

[FarShainMael]

Tell that to the Forsaken.. Can you find the reference? My impression so far is that the True source / One Power is neutral.

 

[Barid Bel Medar]

In the BWB it explains the TS as the driving force of the wheel, basically like gas in a car or something, as Moiraine explains to perrin that the pattern is neither good nor evil (TDR somewhere) then one could say that the "gas" of the pattern is also neutral. Also, it is said (for the life of me i cannot remember exactly where but i am 100%) that the DO was sealed outside the pattern at the beggining of time by the creator, therefore the TP, source of the DO power is foriegn, like a disease that attacks the body, the DO is not the counterbalance to the Creator, but a disease that wishes to invade, hence the Prison and climbing through the bore

[OptimusPrime]

Ah, the Devine Power Theory re-asserts itself. I'm sorry I really do not like this idea--it would completely invalidate everything Rand's suffered through and done with saidin.

Cool, somebody remembers what I first called the Creator version of the TP.  Look at the end of tGS and you will see evidence supporting the DP theory.

 

Care to explain? You could call the Ta'veren twists Divine Intervention, and the ability to channel could be called Divine Power, because both derive from the Creator. If the True Power IS the Dark Ones essence, surely that means the Creator IS the True Source. As in the true source of the Wheel, the Pattern, yada yada. The One Power IS the Creators version of the True Power, theres no arguing that. But seeing as the One Power is broken down into different halves, which MUST be used together to reach its full potential, it kinda fits why evil folk in the Age of Legends would look for another source of Power.

[Ishmayl]

Can you find the reference? My impression so far is that the True source / One Power is neutral.

 

 

I'll see what I can do...

 

“There are many dangers from which I cannot protect them,” Moiraine agreed, “any more than you can protect them from being struck by lightning if they go home. But it is not lightning of which they must be afraid, nor even Whitecloaks. It is the Dark One, and minions of the Dark One. From those things I can protect. Touching the True Source, touching saidar, gives me that protection, as it does to every Aes Sedai.”

 

“Oh, it is catching,” Moiraine said, “and your . . . protection would not save you.”

 

^^This^^ one is in reference to Nynaeve asking if Mat's condition, due to Shadar Logath, is catching

 

“What can we do?” he asked. “There has to be something.”

“Staying close by me,” Moiraine replied, “will help. Some. The protection from touching the True Source extends around me a little remember. But you cannot always remain close to me.

 

“Which would you choose instead?” Moiraine asked quietly. “The Whitecloaks within Caemlyn, or the Trollocs without? Remember that my presence in itself gives some protection from the Dark One’s works.”

 

So even just in the first book, there are several references to Protection from the Dark One and his minions, just from being able to touch the True Source.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Even so, the OP is not the power of the creator, or i should say, not the power of "Light" in opposition to the DO TP. In the BWB it has the whole chapter regarding the OP, it says it is the force that turns the wheel of time. The wheel of time creates the pattern (or is involved with it) which is inherantly neutral as we see from Moiraine's explaination to Perrin in TDR, so the OP is like the gas in a car, just fuel to turn the wheel.

 

The power can be used by either Light or Darkfriends, it is indiscriminate, there is no distinction between good or bad weaves of the power, you can basically do what you want with it good (healing and what have you) or bad (torture and such)

 

Furthermore, the OP is based on the 5 Powers (Fire, Air, Water, Earth, Spirit) which are not the creators power, but elements of the wheel that sustains all life. I do not see how the OP can be thought of as the Creator's power or "Light Side" version of the TP.

[saidarisnowtainted]

i have an issue with the notion that the OP is the essence of the Creator and the opposite of the TP which is the essence of the DO.

 

the issue is this:  how can the DO "taint" part of the power of the Creator?  If the two sides are equal, then shouldnt the Creator's power have equally "tainted" the DO?

 

It looks like there is no "light" tainting of the DO, so this makes it appear that the OP is a middle ground between the DO and the Creator, which makes it appear that there is a "new power" stemming directly from the Creator

[Barid Bel Medar]

Even so, the OP is not the power of the creator, or i should say, not the power of "Light" in opposition to the DO TP. In the BWB it has the whole chapter regarding the OP, it says it is the force that turns the wheel of time. The wheel of time creates the pattern (or is involved with it) which is inherantly neutral as we see from Moiraine's explaination to Perrin in TDR, so the OP is like the gas in a car, just fuel to turn the wheel.

 

The power can be used by either Light or Darkfriends, it is indiscriminate, there is no distinction between good or bad weaves of the power, you can basically do what you want with it good (healing and what have you) or bad (torture and such)

 

Furthermore, the OP is based on the 5 Powers (Fire, Air, Water, Earth, Spirit) which are not the creators power, but elements of the wheel that sustains all life. I do not see how the OP can be thought of as the Creator's power or "Light Side" version of the TP.

 

 

So yes, I agree that there could be a "New Power" but i highly doubt we will have enough time in the next 2 books to learn about it, and it would make it kinda lame. Plus the whole I WILL TAKE NO PART