New Evidence for Taim being Chosen

[algspkr]

I know it is not much, but the glossary of A Crown of Swords may have a piece of supporting evidence for "new forsaken". "Forsaken, the:...A number of strange enounters, however, suggest the possibility either that several new Chosen have been selected by the Dark One or the Lord of the Grave has in some cases reached beyond death."

 

A Path of Daggers and beyond lack that, but it may just be to prevent a "spoiler" of Taim or someone else rising to that level. The books after ACOS do mention the Gars by name Moridin, and Lanfear, but I hope that Taim, or someone else of the Third Age is named Chosen.[/i]

[Kadere]

No, I'm pretty sure it's just refering to Osan'gar, Aran'gar, and Moridin. Though that doesn't mean Taim CAN'T be a Forsaken.

[Luckers]

Agreed. I DO think that Taim has been raised, but i also think that that little bit has to do with the Gars, Moridin and Cyndane.

[Trib4l]

I agree too. I think Moridin definitely has something to do with it, mostly because of the references to red and black being the colors displayed in Taim's hall. If he hasn't been raised, he's at least a DF in the service of Moridin.

[Lews Therin Telamon]

Im sure RJ said in an interview that the Dark One is unlikely to raise another Chosen so close to Tarmon Gaidon. But, the word UNLIKELY leaves a lot open and this coming from the creator of Aes Sedai and their webs of misdirections I wouldnt believe anything he says other than simple straight answers lol

[Luckers]

I don't believe he did say that. He HAS said that the Dark One holds the Chosen he has as special... their training and their knowledge makes them valuable, whilst Third Age channelers are much weaker tools, but i dont recall him ever speaking against the specific raising of new Chosen.

 

Also he said this a long while back... around PoD... since then i imagine it has occured to the Dark One how much his current Chosen aren't succeeding. It makes a lot of sense to me given the untrustworthy action of the Chosen recently for the Dark One, and Shadar Haren, to want at least one or two others--and given we've seen Alviarin recieve a lesser Chosen mark, and that Taim has achieved far more then Alviarin and was likely trained by one of the Forsaken....

[Guest cwestervelt]

Knife of Dreams provides a rather convincing argument for there not being any new Chosen. Just read Chapter 3, "At the Gardens".

 

The chairs could have been anything, here in Tel'aran'rhiod, so why not something to suit the room, and why eleven when that was surely two more than needed? Asmodean and Sammael must be as dead as Be'lal and Rahvin.

 

The chapter is an account of a meeting of the Foresaken in which Moridin is passing on orders. Any additions to the ranks would have been noted. I suppose it could be argued that the 2 extra chairs can be an indication of there being 2 new chosen that didn't attend, but that is a very hard sell. You would first have to come up with a convincing reason for Graendal to know about them when none of the others do. Then you would need to come up with a convincing argument for why they aren't attending any of the Foresaken meetings as this wasn't the first one since the end of Winter's Heart.

[Skull26]

I don't think Taim is a forsaken cause he has been around for awhile before the others even started to get through the bore. I just think he is a dark friend. When he was captured he was broke out by Black Sisters, they could of just told him he either gets gentled or he works for the Dark. it would be and easy choice for a man thinking of that fate. he must of been given some high place near a forsaken cause of the power he has and position with Rand.

When Elidia (sry bout spelling) has the fortelling about the Black Tower burning it will be when Rand comes back to the Black Tower and Taim and his followers that he has trained personaly attack and try to kill rand. But the Min's vision things say that Logain will be powerful some day or something along those lines. Logain and his men will side with Rand and in turn he will become Rands' right hand man and the Leader of the Black Tower. So tell me what you think.

[Luckers]

We don't think Taim used to be Forsaken, we think he has been raised recently.

 

As for that cwestervelt... it is interesting, but hardly evidence for anything. For one thing, Graendal showed unusual sense in bowing to Shadar Haren, which may mean that she would know more of his actions then the others. For two it may be that She was told to do it, to confuse the others (and herself) without actually knowing that was the case. For three she may have simply done it to confuse others, or because she cant count. Or maybe she didn't choose the local at all, but found it that way when she arrived and chose to keep it to herself.

 

Its too open ended... nothing in it specify's and particular theory--it is significant in itself, but it doesn't not infer or imply anything.

[padainfain]

Maybe Moridin set up the meeting place before hand and fixed it so it couldnt be changed somehow? he is after all quite the schemer, as we've seen time and time again. Then all the remaining forsaken would be freaking out about the extra chairs. Chaos born from simplicity. Thats Ishy's philosipy side alright!

 

I believe Taim's of the dark persuasion, but by the same token he's no Chosen. He's definately head dreadlord material (like a second rate chosen, lol.)

[Luckers]

Dreadlord is a term coined in the Trolloc Wars refering to all the channelers that fought for the Shadow in those Wars. It doesn't mean lesser Chosen... Chosen was a different term, refering to the upper eschelon, which have been marked into that position by the Dark One--Shadar Haren seems to have this ability.

[ionlylooklazy]

i dont think that taim is one of the chosen is disguise, however, i do beleive he may be a darkfriend, although perhaps not originally

 

i think he may have fallen victem to the dreaded 13 channelers/13 mydraal darkfriend conversion

 

at the end of TDR, while elayne, egwene, and nynaeve are all locked up in the stone under control of the black sisters. the black sisters claimed to be fetching 13 myrdraal to forcefully convert them to darkfriends, but as we all know they eventually escape, stilling one sister and capturing another

 

in TSR, from the two captured sisters we learn of their plans for tanchico and another to free taim. neither one knew of the others plans, or at least claimed not to.

 

later we read that taim WAS freed and while not explicitly stated, almost certainly by the black ajah. is it possible that taim was forecfully converted to darkfriend? there was a lot of talk in TDR about converting channelers to the shadow, but then it dropped off almost entirely in TSR and beyond.

 

however, the black sisters were only 11 in number after fleeing tear, but since the one of the two captured sisters wasnt aware of the plan for taim, could it be possible other sisters or forsaken involved? through the later books there are no new sisters introduced into that original group of 13 black sisters, and all 11 are together after leaving tanchico when they run into moggie, but not all were accounted for in tanchico.

 

as for taim, after he was broken free, there is no mention of him until LOC, two books later, when he casually strolls into caemlyn under rands amnesty with no question of his recent history. seems coincidental to me, but theres also the glaring hole of not having enough channeleres to convert him

[Luckers]

There's a lot more evidence then that...

[Mat Comes With The Dawn]

Taim isn't at the level of Chosen. Remember, his room at the end of KoD had Moridin's colours (or maybe it was him, or something/somewhere else). Moghedien, and probably Cyndane, have their mindtraps held by Moridin, and in Moggy's POV where she balefires Nynaeve's boat in Ebou Dar she mentions having to wear Moridin's colours.

 

The only reason Moggy and Cyndane are still Chosen is because they had served the DO before a long time ago. Taim is just a new piece on the board under Moridin. However it is possible for him to gain independence from Moridin (besides the fact he's Nae'blis) by going to the pit of doom and being Chosen by the DO. But at the moment, he's not.