A Way to Evade the Oaths (Full Spoilers)

[StefanR]

I like a variant of the sleepweaver ter'angreal theory posted a while back. The other theory was that the ter'angreals conflict and the Oath doesn't work. But I prefer that if you're in halfway in T'A'R with the sleepweaver, the Oath doesn't stick because too much of your consciousness isn't there. Amys has this to say about it in tFoH:

"When a Dreamwalker enters the World of Dreams in her sleep, only a tiny bit of her remains with her body, just enough to keep her body alive. If she puts herself in a shadow sleep, where she can be here and also speak to those around her in the waking world, she looks as you do to one who is here fully. Perhaps it is the same. I don't know that I like it, any woman who can channel being able to enter Tel'aran'rhiod, even in this state."

Our heroes don't know how to use the sleepweaver this way, and still be half-awake. But if Amys is right that it's the same, maybe Messana knows how, and can speak the Oaths while still being partly in T'A'R.

 

 

Yeah that was my idea how too, would make sense if it worked that way, and would explain the sleepweavers.

 

That would allow some BA to beat the oath rod too, if she chose to trust some.

[Random Man]

The main problem with the sleepweaver theory is that it doesn't explain the initial motive for Mesaana seizing them. When she ordered Sheriam to steal the ter'angreal, Messy was plotting for Egwene's downfall, not for the at the time incomprehensible move by the heads of the Ajahs to have her raised. Additionally, it's merely speculative to assume that being in a shadow sleep wouldn't bind one by the words they swore. There's nothing to suggest that a person in such a state wouldn't be affected by a weave of the Power, or to suggest that they wouldn't be bound by words they swore while under the influence of the Oath Rod. We might as well assume that Messy knows an anti-Oath Rod weave at this point (which I find to be implausible as well).

 

Creating an illusion with the Power to appear as if you are swearing when in fact you are actually not speaking at all (what I call Recorder Theory) is much simpler, able to conjure at a moment's notice, and well-established through both Messy's MO and weaves we've already seen.

[Sharaman]

The Oath Rod works in TAR.

That is, a shadow OR can be used in TAR to swear or forswear oaths.

In fact, it's been suggested earlier in this thread that Mesaana might use the OR in TaR to forswear oaths she's taken while awake. It's doubtful that taking oaths while 1/2 in TAR, 1/2 waking would not work, assuming she could do it at all.

Spirit, which is what works the OR is the one thing that can be channeled while sleeping.

Chances are, the oaths would hold.

 

[makaveli422]

Also don't forget that it has been mentioned more than once in the series that oaths done in dreams are MORE binding than oaths done in the waking world.

[autolycus81]

Okay, so, first post here, all that jazz.

 

My comment on the issue is not so much an idea as much as an aspect to the discussion that I think has gone over looked in the first 20 pages or so of this thread.

 

The Oath Rod was created for criminal channelers, therefore its design would likely be optimized for binding a captured, tried, convicted criminal.  Based largely on the Balthy and Semi comments, I think that it was feared in the context of being in captivity and almost certainly shielded (you gotta admit that's only logical).  It might even have been offered as an alternative to something like prison:  swear not to do those bad things you're guilty of and you can go free to still live life in other ways.

 

So this is partly a response to someone looking for a logical answer able to be divined purely from the books.  The OR isn't designed to bind someone not already captive, so any number of the ideas come up with already could work on it in Eggy's usage, because she's not shielding the one being bound.  Whether the inverted Air around the hand to not be touching it, or a dummy switch on the other end from the numbers (you know, for QA testing: if both ends are channeled into the binding starts but then releases) triggered by inverted Spirit, or any number of things.

 

It's not so much that Messy gets around the rod because she knows some 'secret AOL thingy' as much as any channeler can get around it with inverted weaves because it was never designed to be able to restrain someone not a convicted criminal(and therefore shielded).

 

While I realize this answer doesn't have the elegance that many seem to be looking for, it does avoid the answer of Messy getting around it with standard AS word parsing (she's a DF, she's chosen) and it is something that is not a logical stretch based purely on material in the books.  It may or may not be the way Messy gets around the OR and DF statement, but it is a logical way to see how Messy can work around something that Semi and Balthy were afraid of back in the day.

 

Now please tear it up!  I'm interested to know where I went wrong.

[Paerish Swar]

The Oath Rod was created for criminal channelers, therefore its design would likely be optimized for binding a captured, tried, convicted criminal.  Based largely on the Balthy and Semi comments, I think that it was feared in the context of being in captivity and almost certainly shielded (you gotta admit that's only logical).  It might even have been offered as an alternative to something like prison:  swear not to do those bad things you're guilty of and you can go free to still live life in other ways.

 

Autolycus, I want to spend a little more time thinking about your post because I think what you're suggesting is valuable to the discussion.  Good job.

 

Here are my immediate thoughts, though.

 

For thousands of years the Oath Rod appears to have been effective in the manner that it has been used by the Aes Sedai.  They can not speak outright lies, they can not make a weapon, and they can not use the OP as a weapon unless an immediate and serious threat justifies its use as a weapon (of course dependent on their individual perception of the danger).  So I am not sure that whether an AS is shielded or not has any effect on the efficacy of the Rod itself.

 

But, I am interested in your suggestion that when the Rod was used in the AoL, the AS may have been shielded.

 

We have seen so far in the series that the Rod can be activated successfully in two ways: with someone channeling spirit into it while another person is holding it and swearing, and if the person holding the Rod and swearing is also channeling the spirit into the Rod themselves.  They both work.

 

It seems obvious that the safest way to use the Rod effectively would be if the offending channeler were to be shielded, and there was a second individual channeling into the Rod with the first channeler holding the Rod and swearing.

 

I can not remember if it is specifically stated, but I am fairly certain that the protocol that Egwene used with the reswearing was with the Sisters holding the Rod, channeling the flow of spirit themselves, and swearing.  (I believe that this has always been the tradition in the Tower, that when an AS swears on the Rod she does it all herself voluntarily.)

 

So, if Mesaana was not shielded, and had the responsibility of channeling into the Rod herself, and was swearing the words herself . . . that certainly gives her a certain amount of control over the process.  An amount of control that may not have been allowed in the AoL.

 

I don't know yet how this may effect the relevance of any previous theories regarding Mesaana's evasion of the Oaths (I don't know that it necessarily changes any of them), or how this may effect the development of any new theories.

 

But, I think it's an important suggestion you're making.

 

 

Hmmmm.  Mesaana was "forced" to swear on the Rod, but if she was in control of every aspect of the swearing process . . . how might that augment or enhance her ability to evade being truly bound by it? 

[autolycus81]

So I am not sure that whether an AS is shielded or not has any effect on the efficacy of the Rod itself.  

 

Oh!  No, I'm definitely not trying to say that the shield would in any way effect the binding actually taking hold.  If the rod gets activated properly with the weave of Spirit, hand is on rod, and oath is spoken, it binds, shield or no.

 

What I am saying, is that an unshielded channeler that is responsible for turning on the Rod could have a much easier time avoiding one of the above than a shielded channeler.  Just channel Spirit a little bit to the right?  Inverted Air to keep from touching rod?  Probably other things too...  Easy outs for Messy that wouldn't have been there in AoL.

 

As for how it affects other theories?  I think it makes the ones that involves channeling easier to swallow for those objecting on the basis of Semi and Balthy's fear of binding indicating that if there isn't an easy way around the OR in AoL, why would there be one now. 

[Paerish Swar]

So I am not sure that whether an AS is shielded or not has any effect on the efficacy of the Rod itself. 

 

Oh!  No, I'm definitely not trying to say that the shield would in any way effect the binding actually taking hold.  If the rod gets activated properly with the weave of Spirit, hand is on rod, and oath is spoken, it binds, shield or no.

 

What I am saying, is that an unshielded channeler that is responsible for turning on the Rod could have a much easier time avoiding one of the above than a shielded channeler.  Just channel Spirit a little bit to the right?  Inverted Air to keep from touching rod?  Probably other things too...  Easy outs for Messy that wouldn't have been there in AoL.

 

As for how it affects other theories?  I think it makes the ones that involves channeling easier to swallow for those objecting on the basis of Semi and Balthy's fear of binding indicating that if there isn't an easy way around the OR in AoL, why would there be one now. 

 

I absolutely agree that the level of control that Mesaana would have had in the process of the reswearing ceremony during the purge frees up a lot of possibilities.

 

Your thoughts on this may provide a new slant by which we can narrow down the possibilities.  I am interested in how having that level of control might inspire Mesaana's chosen method of evasion.  If her own reasoning began with this bit of understanding (the point you yourself raise), where might her reasoning have led her?

[clu7ch]

Have patience with me here, because I can't 100% remember all the facts, but didn't we see Moiraine and girlfriend taking their oaths in NS? There appeared to be a physically noticeable amount of discomfort and whatnot, I'd say that if all in attendance were watching the event - some fireworks would be happening with the oath rod, and whatnot. Again, i don't have the book in front of me but thats just what I remembered. I think it'd be hard for Messy to just weave spirit off to the right, especially beings spirit is a dangerous weave in and of itself.

[Hadilmir]

especially beings spirit is a dangerous weave in and of itself.

No.

[clu7ch]

maybe i'm mistaken but the hedgehog trap was a single weave of spirit, correct?

[Hadilmir]

maybe i'm mistaken but the hedgehog trap was a single weave of spirit, correct?

The hedgehog ter'angreal was activated by a single weave of spirit. Spirit only becomes dangerous when used in complex weaves.

[autolycus81]

Have patience with me here, because I can't 100% remember all the facts, but didn't we see Moiraine and girlfriend taking their oaths in NS? There appeared to be a physically noticeable amount of discomfort and whatnot, I'd say that if all in attendance were watching the event - some fireworks would be happening with the oath rod, and whatnot. Again, i don't have the book in front of me but thats just what I remembered. I think it'd be hard for Messy to just weave spirit off to the right, especially beings spirit is a dangerous weave in and of itself.

 

Here is the edge of my expertise, as I've not read NS(sorry, boycotting prequels released before main series is completed). 

 

However, the transition as the oaths 'settle in' that I was working off of was the descriptions given of Eggy and Romanda (re)swearing in tGS.  No noticeable change in their appearance is mentioned during the time of release from oath or after reapplication.  The feeling of the oath binding does produce a physical sensation of pain that is significant enough that Eggy's POV notes when Romanda reacts with only a "controlled, hissing intake of breath."

 

When I was thinking this through, I though that if there was a change in the agelessness look, that might be tough to manage to correctly adjust in a Mask on the fly, then adjust back after faking the reswear, but a change of appearance is not mentioned.  However, giving an outward reaction to pain similar to those AS swearing before Messy would not be hard.  She's Chosen, she can't be too bad at lying, and faking something's a bit painful shouldn't be too hard.  Just do what the AS swearing before her did.

 

As for what I think is Messy's plan leading her to evade the OR as I'm positing?  That's wide open.  My best guess is that once stuff was tightening down on BA, she figured that she'll still be able to bug out unless they guess her identity.  Her previous plans are in tatters, but if she gave up on messing with the White Tower, how much more upset might the DO be?  I think she sticks around 'cause she hears how the BA is being searched for from the escaped BA with the rebels and knows how she'll evade the OR.  It'll take too long for her to set up a power base elsewhere at this point, so she hopes she can at least still disrupt from within the WT. 

 

That however, is totally pulled from nowhere, with not much textual support.  Frankly I think her best option was running once Eggy's main BA search commenced, but based on the 'feeling' Eggy has that Messana is still around I am, like others, interested in figuring out how she did it.

 

Parallel argument for those that don't like the theory of Messy taking the oaths and then getting around the "I am not a Darkfriend and I have never been one" statement:  Even if she truthfullly doesn't consider herself a Darkfriend so can avoid being outed, she might not be certain that she'd be able to get her hands on a binding rod to release the oaths.  Unless she has her own backup off camera, it might be a very risky proposition.  Imagine showing up to Tarmon Gaidon as a Chosen with the three AS oaths in place limiting her abilities.

[wvlr2]

So, if Mesaana was not shielded, and had the responsibility of channeling into the Rod herself, and was swearing the words herself . . . that certainly gives her a certain amount of control over the process.  An amount of control that may not have been allowed in the AoL.

I can accept this as a reasonable alternative, but I still think that the answer is just a simple glove.   We already know that she is using an inverted MoM a little to fake her identity.   A glove visually looks little different than a hand.   MoM would only have to tweek the image a small amount.   If it was a flesh colored glove, she would not have to worry about movements disrupting the spell.

 

It is simple and easy, just taking a small adjustment to the spell she is already wearing.   I am sure that they have gloves in this world.  It is a precaution that I would think that she would have taken in the beginning when she started her infiltration.

[Random Man]

A flesh-colored glove (or perhaps a fancloth glove? Or even an inverted sheath of Air) used in conjunction with the MoM would probably work quite well. The main reason I first discounted the idea that she defeated the rod by not actually touching it was because I thought -- apparently incorrectly -- that her not actually touching the rod would be observable during the attempted swearing (no Weaves flowing into her or such). After careful analysis of the on-screen swearings from NS, tPoD, WH and TGS, it appears, however, that aside from the thread of Spirit that activates the Rod there isn't any other noticeable weaves. At least, none are described. The only thing mentioned is the sensation the swearer feels -- her skin tightening (Hence the ageless look that becomes gradually noticeable as younger Aes Sedai age -- the Oath Rod is AoL PermaBotox!) Any actress worth a copper can fake being in a bit of pain.

 

As much as I love Recorder Theory and think it's still quite plausible that Messy faked swearing the words instead of faking holding onto the Rod, the glove theory seems to make even more sense because it's even simpler. The only thing I'm wondering is that, if Egwene manages to deduce how Messy did it, how in the world would she have any leads to follow? Of course, Egwene might not get Messy before Messy gets her.

 

Edited because I couldn't resist the Messy pun  ::)

[Paerish Swar]

While I think the MoM /inverted glove and Recorder theories use really solid reasoning, I am concerned that they don't fit with what Brandon has said on the matter.  He said that we should be looking for ways to defeat the Oath Rod - the Rod itself.

 

The majority of theories involve verbal and mental gymnastics after taking the oaths, or just plain avoiding physical contact with the Rod, or even lipsynching.

 

What BS suggests, I believe, is something functional.  Doing something that would make the Rod itself not function, or at least not function correctly.

 

These other theories don't really address that.

 

I think that's where BS is pointing us, but that's just my opinion.   

[Sharaman]

Whatever it is, for Brandon to set a valid "puzzle", the reader must have already encountered it or some version of it.

 

[saidarisnowtainted]

also, considering that you can use a binder to remove an oath that you previously swored, logic follows that you can also preemptively use the binder to avoid being bound subsequently.

(emphasis mine)

 

That's like saying since you can rip off a band-aid after it's on, you can prevent a band-aid from sticking to your skin.

 

It makes no logical sense.

 

I dont agree with you.  I understand your point.  the band-aid sticks to you and the oath sticks to you.  Your argument is basically that just because you can remove something previously applied to you does not mean that you can prevent it from applying to you ahead of time.

 

However, your analagy is off because there is a difference between the manner in which a band-aid sticks and the manner in which an oath is made binding.

 

obviously i dont mean to rebut you by debating the literal aspects of the two.  that would be silly and childish of me.

 

However, there is an important difference here. 

 

A band-aid is an object that inherently sticks to you regardless of your actions.  you can remove it but ripping it off will not affect another band-aid from sticking to you.

 

a side point--ripping it off will result in the same band-aid not sticking as well.  but whatever.  slightly on point but not really.

 

However, an oath requires a separate rod to be used and requires input from the subject. 

 

Using your example, the band-aid sticks because it has glue on it.  However, the Oath Rod is the glue that binds, but it is an object separate from the words you utter.

 

Thus, if the band-aid were similar to the oaths, it would have to be separate from the glue and require you to put the glue on it before putting it on you. 

 

Clearly, a person can tamper with the jar of glue ahead of time so that the band aid wont stick.  when applied.

 

That is the way i see the Oath Rod working.  The Rod is the glue.  If you have foreknowledge that you will speak an oath in the future, you can do it.  Depending on the nature of the Rod’s operation, you can use it ahead of time and swear an oath that can affect the future oath’s effect on you.

 

So while your argument is erroneous b/c of a significant oversight, it works if you make the two things truly similar—the band-aid is separate from the glue.  You can tamper with the glue ahead of time so that the next band-aid you use wont stick

 

[Random Man]

While I think the MoM /inverted glove and Recorder theories use really solid reasoning, I am concerned that they don't fit with what Brandon has said on the matter.  He said that we should be looking for ways to defeat the Oath Rod - the Rod itself.

 

The majority of theories involve verbal and mental gymnastics after taking the oaths, or just plain avoiding physical contact with the Rod, or even lipsynching.

 

What BS suggests, I believe, is something functional.  Doing something that would make the Rod itself not function, or at least not function correctly.

 

These other theories don't really address that.

 

I think that's where BS is pointing us, but that's just my opinion.   

I believe you're trying to extrapolate too much from Brandon's statement. He made the statement in response to a question that specifically addressed whether Mesaana could get around the Three Oaths by not believing herself to be a Darkfriend. He was pointing us away from the idea that Mesaana ever allowed herself to get bound in the first place.

 

Additionally, any situation in which Mesaana held a functioning Oath Rod and walked away unbound is a situation where the Oath Rod has been defeated because it failed to bind her -- it failed to do what it was supposed to do. You could say its functioning was interfered with. I could take a front-wheel-drive car and prop up the front so that the tires don't make contact with the surface of the road and push the gas all day without going anywhere. I don't have to break its motor -- or even turn it off -- to keep it from going forward.

 

That said, I can't read Brandon's mind so I really don't know what he meant. Brandon's quote also implies that we have enough information to figure out how Mesaana did it (which we probably do and in fact someone in the Know should ask him) but I can't prove that either. I'm not one to remain latched onto pet theories and dismiss other things that make sense as well.

 

Direct interference has been looked into, and this is what has been put forth. I personally believe that none of these theories are very sound, for reasons I highlighted below:

 

One idea for direct interference that has some basis in what we already know is resonance between the Oath Rod and another ter'angreal that uses a similar weave, such as the Dreaming Ter'angreal Mesaana stole. The idea is that another ter'angreal produced a resonance effect similar to what we saw during Egwene's testing for Accepted, and short-circuited the Oath Rod. I find this implausible because (a) its use would have had to be a crime of opportunity -- Messy wasn't planning for Egwene's Raising when she asked Sheriam to steal them --(b) resonances appear unpredictable and quite dangerous, and © how would the Aes Sedai witnesses not notice it? It leaves too much to conjecture.

 

Another idea is that Mesaana used an inverted weave of spirit to touch the other end of the Oath Rod, thereby simultaneously removing the oaths while taking them. Unfortunately, we don't have anything to suggest it might be possible to simultaneously remove a sworn oath without any noticeable effects. I would imagine it to be excruciatingly painful unless the oaths never take in the first place, which is also pure conjecture.

 

I'm pretty sure that swearing a pre-emptive oath ("I vow to not take seriously any future oaths") would be distasteful to Mesaana (who probably knows that the Oath Rod shortens lifespan) and might just kill her when she took another oath (she'd be bound by the Rod to take it seriously).

 

Maybe Mesaana knows how to use the Power to defeat the Oath Rod, but there's no basis for an anti-Oath Rod weave in what we know thus far.

 

This list in no way claims that direct interference isn't how she did it. We just haven't thought up a sound way in which it would work. Any other thoughts? Let's keep them coming!

[Paerish Swar]

Maybe I am reading in to things too much.

 

I do, however, really feel that there is a difference between evading the Oaths and defeating the Oath Rod.  I also feel that BS eluded to this distinction.  (I should also say that I don't even like the title of this thread; I think it's misleading)

 

To help illustrate the distinction:

 

Additionally, any situation in which Mesaana held a functioning Oath Rod and walked away unbound is a situation where the Oath Rod has been defeated because it failed to bind her -- it failed to do what it was supposed to do. You could say its functioning was interfered with. I could take a front-wheel-drive car and prop up the front so that the tires don't make contact with the surface of the road and push the gas all day without going anywhere. I don't have to break its motor -- or even turn it off -- to keep it from going forward.

 

In the case of the car metaphor, I could argue that the car itself is not being defeated in any way.  The car is doing exactly what it was built to do.  The things that were defeated were the environmental factors (the rubber meeting the road) that allow the car to interact with its surroundings in the manner we normally expect it to.  The purpose of the car was successfully evaded by limiting its interaction with its environment, but it was not in itself defeated - everything inherent in how it functions occurred correctly and unimpeded.

 

If you hold a functioning gun in your hand, fire a bullet in the general direction of your foot, but manage to evade getting shot . . . the gun didn't fail and was certainly in no way defeated.  Its effects were simply evaded.

 

I'm going a little overboard with this stuff.  :-\

 

I'm just trying to make the point that there is a distinction between simply managing to evade the effects, reach, or purpose of the Oaths, and directly managing to defeat the Oath Rod.

 

As for the inverted-air gloves theory, if it is true that the Rod requires flesh contact, then refraining from touching the Rod just means that it doesn't have anything yet to do.  It's on, but just on "standby mode," waiting for someone to make flesh contact.

 

As for the the Recorder theory, if it is true that the Rod requires real-time, fully and organically vocalized Oaths by the same person as who is holding it, then it's the same thing.  "Standby mode."  It would just be waiting for the person holding it to actually say something.

 

The mental and verbal gymnastics theories I believe are self-explanatory in regards to my point.

 

I don't really mean to be argumentative or anything.  I just feel that such distinctions and classifications are useful to the discussion, as well as being helpful in understanding Mesaana's possible options for defeating the Rod.

[MikeRiley]

The idea that an inverted weave touched the other end of the oath rod was not that it simultaneously set and removed the oaths. It was that the oath rod glitched or stopped working completely because it was being told to do two conflicting things at once. So the oaths never would have taken place and she could have said whatever she wanted.

 

There would be problems with this unless the Age of Legends Aes Sedai knew a ward to prevent channeling into an area, since a criminal Aes Sedai accomplice could snipe the rod with an inverted spirit weave, so to speak. If an Aes Sedai was bad enough that they required the oath rod then they probably were shielded when they took the oaths.

 

Like it's been said, the forsaken were afraid of the binding rod, so if there's a way to defeat it and Mesaana knew of it, then it must be something involving the process used to take the oaths. That is the only thing that could have changed since then. A lack of security and shielding would be my best guess, which is why I brought up the inverted spirit weave.

[Sharaman]

The idea that an inverted weave touched the other end of the oath rod was not that it simultaneously set and removed the oaths. It was that the oath rod glitched or stopped working completely because it was being told to do two conflicting things at once. So the oaths never would have taken place and she could have said whatever she wanted.

 

There would be problems with this unless the Age of Legends Aes Sedai knew a ward to prevent channeling into an area, since a criminal Aes Sedai accomplice could snipe the rod with an inverted spirit weave, so to speak. If an Aes Sedai was bad enough that they required the oath rod then they probably were shielded when they took the oaths.

 

Like it's been said, the forsaken were afraid of the binding rod, so if there's a way to defeat it and Mesaana knew of it, then it must be something involving the process used to take the oaths. That is the only thing that could have changed since then. A lack of security and shielding would be my best guess, which is why I brought up the inverted spirit weave.

 

Do you need a ward? One designated channeler who channels spirit and compels the criminal to recite the stipulated oath(s) under pain of stilling. Scene watched on video/audio at a distance.

There are ways (not necessarily pleasant ones) of further testing the criminal to see if the oath(s) are working.

 

[MikeRiley]

Yes, you would need a ward unless you did test them afterward, and how would you know they aren't just pretending then?

 

This of course assuming you could bug the binding rod so it doesn't work like normal. There would be a security issue involved with the criminal's friends sitting some distance away channeling inverted spirit at the rod during the binding. Somebody would need to be able to detect actual channeling going on - perhaps something like Cadsuane's ornaments? Or else they would need a warding of some sort to prevent that possibility. It seems the easiest to do.

[Sharaman]

Yes, you would need a ward unless you did test them afterward, and how would you know they aren't just pretending then?

 

This of course assuming you could bug the binding rod so it doesn't work like normal. There would be a security issue involved with the criminal's friends sitting some distance away channeling inverted spirit at the rod during the binding. Somebody would need to be able to detect actual channeling going on - perhaps something like Cadsuane's ornaments? Or else they would need a warding of some sort to prevent that possibility. It seems the easiest to do.

 

Caddy-style ornaments may be confused because there will be channeling anyhow.

 

One scenario:

Two people - prison officer- criminal in a locked room. Prison officer holds a shield on criminal, and then channels apirit into OR. The criminal has the choice of saying the oath(s) including an oath of obedience, or being stilled. Nobody else is on the scene.

 

Event being watched (maybe on pay per view) by a select remote audience. They can see if the criminal is holding the rod, and saying the oaths, etc. They cannot see if spirit is being channeled.

 

Both come out of locked room. Criminal is promptly told to cut his own throat. If he does, he's healed. If he doesn't, the prison officer is stilled and the process of oath-ing is repeated with the criminal.

No wards required.

If you have something like forkroot, even better.

You can forkroot a local audience, which can confirm the oaths, while being themselves unable to channel.

Lots of ways it could be done, including some sort of selective ward, of course.

 

 

 

   

[Random Man]

Yes, you would need a ward unless you did test them afterward, and how would you know they aren't just pretending then?

 

This of course assuming you could bug the binding rod so it doesn't work like normal. There would be a security issue involved with the criminal's friends sitting some distance away channeling inverted spirit at the rod during the binding. Somebody would need to be able to detect actual channeling going on - perhaps something like Cadsuane's ornaments? Or else they would need a warding of some sort to prevent that possibility. It seems the easiest to do.

 

Caddy-style ornaments may be confused because there will be channeling anyhow.

 

One scenario:

Two people - prison officer- criminal in a locked room. Prison officer holds a shield on criminal, and then channels apirit into OR. The criminal has the choice of saying the oath(s) including an oath of obedience, or being stilled. Nobody else is on the scene.

 

Event being watched (maybe on pay per view) by a select remote audience. They can see if the criminal is holding the rod, and saying the oaths, etc. They cannot see if spirit is being channeled.

 

Both come out of locked room. Criminal is promptly told to cut his own throat. If he does, he's healed. If he doesn't, the prison officer is stilled and the process of oath-ing is repeated with the criminal.

No wards required.

If you have something like forkroot, even better.

You can forkroot a local audience, which can confirm the oaths, while being themselves unable to channel.

Lots of ways it could be done, including some sort of selective ward, of course.

 

 

 

   

 

In the AoL, the convicted had a choice of being bound by the OR or being severed. The threat of being severed was the consequence of refusing to swear. As long as the convicted was shielded to prevent any shenanigans (such as preventing contact with the OR or mimicry) all that was really needed was someone who could confirm the rod was touching the skin of a person and who could activate the OR.

 

They would have, of course, had to figure out a way around someone getting paid off to aid the convicted in circumventing the rod (by either preventing contact with the rod or using illusion to make it look like the convicted was swearing, or through some other means) and perhaps in the AoL there was a way to determine whether the oaths were binding. Maybe they just examined the convicted's skin to determine there were no wrinkles evident (since binding makes the skin tight, and the lack of wrinkles creates the ageless look). Maybe the convicted was simply locked up until the ageless look was evident (which in young Aes Sedai becomes evident within 5 years of swearing).