Semirhage (Spoilers)

[Sab]

Just seems to me if one of the Forsaken opened the box and saw it they would of snatched it up in a heartbeat.  After all think of what Semi could of gained from Demandred if she gave it to him.  Moridin certainly would want Rand to be without it if they are going to fight later.  I would think the box was broken into before the Semi rescue since once the escape takes place they would want to get to Rand as fast as they could before the dead and disabled Aes Sedai were discovered.  And whoever took it knew Cas wasn't there and meeting with the WO's, maybe another clue of a possible WO in the service of the DO. SH seems not a good choice of doing it since I would guess to undo weaves you would need to be able to channel.

[Sharaman]

Of course, the box was broken into before Semi was rescued. Elza hands over the Domination Band as Semi emerges from her cell.

Brandon's also already said Elza broke into the box - SH showed her how to do it but he can't perform the weaves.

As to whether a Chosen would give it to another Chosen, maybe not.

A male Chosen with the CK would be able to make himself Naeb'lis with ease, maybe even go toe-to-toe with GloD Himself.

Leaving it lying around seems a bit peculiar though - it's the only detail about the rescue that doesn't make sense.

Any Saidin-user who walked into the crime scene could just pick it up and make himself the boss. 

[mossman87]

Of course, the box was broken into before Semi was rescued. Elza hands over the Domination Band as Semi emerges from her cell.

Brandon's also already said Elza broke into the box - SH showed her how to do it but he can't perform the weaves.

As to whether a Chosen would give it to another Chosen, maybe not.

A male Chosen with the CK would be able to make himself Naeb'lis with ease, maybe even go toe-to-toe with GloD Himself.

Leaving it lying around seems a bit peculiar though - it's the only detail about the rescue that doesn't make sense.

Any Saidin-user who walked into the crime scene could just pick it up and make himself the boss.   

 

Well that would certainly cause more chaos.

[ed2funy]

I am sure someone has posted this, and I will check the whole 7 long pages ;) later.....

 

But, "eat the beans" was the best F***en Forsaken scene ever imo....

 

I freaking loved it!

 

As displayed by my post here:

I quite frankly loved it when she said, "eat the f**ken beans b**ch! Eat them off the F**ken floor!!!"

 

Ok....might not have been that....

[Morsmordre]

I doubt these coincidences - SH not having seen the CK or Elza being ignorant because of Verin's compulsion. I think we will find an explanation about this omission in the next book.

 

But I like the idea of having a Darkfriend among the WO. When I thought of this possibility, I was thinking of Sorilea but... she's just too good to be evil. After all, she's the one that knew where the key was and all the other stuff besides Cadsuane. I think it will be a fine kick in the butt if she's exposed as a Darkfriend. By Nyneave, I hope, gaining respect in Cadsuane's eyes :) I don't think Semirhage was well played :( We should have seen more of her.

[Crael123]

I doubt these coincidences - SH not having seen the CK or Elza being ignorant because of Verin's compulsion. I think we will find an explanation about this omission in the next book.

 

But I like the idea of having a Darkfriend among the WO. When I thought of this possibility, I was thinking of Sorilea but... she's just too good to be evil. After all, she's the one that knew where the key was and all the other stuff besides Cadsuane. I think it will be a fine kick in the butt if she's exposed as a Darkfriend. By Nyneave, I hope, gaining respect in Cadsuane's eyes :) I don't think Semirhage was well played :( We should have seen more of her.

 

I always thought there were too few darkfriends among aiel. we have only had like, one, confirmed and that was Mats girlafriend.

[Shazzai]

I noticed two important pieces of information from Semi's death scene.

 

1:  A'dam do not cut you off from using the TP.  When Moggy was spending time washing up and teaching weaves to Nyn and Elayne, the TP was still available to all the Forsaken, right?  It wasn't reserved for Moridin yet, was it?  Is this a change?  Is this another difference between male and femal a'dam?  Or is Moghedien just really really dumb?

 

2:  I don't think Moridin feels all of Rand's pain.  I think he feels it when it exceeds a certain threshold.  Once pain passes that threshold, Moridin gets all of it and Rand doesn't experience any more of it.  The fireball to the hand would have been incredibly painful, enough to pass the threshold, dumping all the pain on Moridin (enough that his hand was sore weeks later).  The pain from the Band of Domination reached the threshold and suddenly Rand stopped feeling it.  There's no evidence that Moridin felt it, but Rand's access to the TP is certainly suggestive.

[ed2funy]

1. Moggy just didn't have access I believe. Sort of like a punishment by the DO. Let her stay there and work her own way out.

But she couldn't, and then he needed use of her, so he sent someone to free her...Then she was enslaved. ;D

 

2. Moridin didn't say he had a sudden burst of incredible pain in his hand. Only that he felt sore for a few weeks.

I agree on the threshold part. They are not gonna feel each little pin prick, but I don't think all the pain just transfers over.

 

I believe after that threshold, the other can feel a ghost "image" of that pain.

 

Rand is made more aware of the connection (though he doesn't realize it) and that is why he can still feel "his" hand.

{I just realized this...so...hehe}

He didn't stop feeling the physical pain in the sense you think (I have to reread it), but he reached a deeper place, deeper than the void. There he felt no pain.

 

Just like in the void he is distant from the pain and he can ignore it. But in the void of the void, he felt nothing at all.

[Sharaman]

Feeling pain and cramp in amputated "phantom" limbs is a well known syndrome that persists for years.

Doctors have tried everything for this. One of the cutest methods that seems to work is simply setting up a mirror and massaging the other limb while watching it in the mirror. The visual feedback seems to "fool" the brain into thinking that the missing limb is being massaged.

Neurologists (Ramachandran "Phantoms in the Brain") have done a lot of work on phantom limbs. 

So you can't deduce much from Rand feeling his missing hand. 

Moggy doesn't, as far as we know, even consider using TP to evade the A'dam.

It's difficult to be certain but when GLoD cut off the rest of the Chosen from TP, he may have actually cut them off rather than "merely" forbidden them to touch it. In any case, if GLoD has told them not to do something, I think the Chosen would take being tortured by normal human beings over risking a reprimand from GLoD by disobeying him.

We have no guarantees that Moridin felt anything at all when Rand was being worked over by Semi.

Just that it seems logical, seeing that his left hand was stiff earlier on and that he apparently felt tired when Rand felt tired.

The other thing is that A'dam and Domination Bands are different. Semi remarks on one difference when she says the DB gives physical control.

Maybe another difference is that A'dam does completely cut off access to TP while Domination Bands don't.

 

[ed2funy]

I know about phantom limbs and all, but in this case, I think it is the link they have.

There is more here going on than any of scientists could study ;)

 

 

[Flamingskulls]

Maybe using the TP allowed the GLoD to influence Rand. As soon as he used it everything he tried went badly with the possible exception of Grendal(sp?). All the food he brought rotted, he exiled a woman that he would end up needing, his meeting with Tuon was a failure, he almost kills his dad. And he has a dark aura around him. That seems to say "under the influence of evil" to me. He almost commits a mild genocide then travels to a mountain top and thinks about love. Then he realizes that hardness was not the answer. If he had escaped Semirhage by other means he may have realized that it was not possible to be hard enough because he would always care about Min. This would have allowed him to form a successful alliance with Tuon, found a better way to deal with Grendal, and not nearly kill or exile anyone. The other thing is that maybe because he is Tavern (I know thats not how its spelled), being in a bad mood creates a dark aura around him, but it seems much more likely that this is cause by someone name the dark one.

[thewalrus777]

Maybe using the TP allowed the GLoD to influence Rand. As soon as he used it everything he tried went badly with the possible exception of Grendal(sp?). All the food he brought rotted, he exiled a woman that he would end up needing, his meeting with Tuon was a failure, he almost kills his dad. And he has a dark aura around him. That seems to say "under the influence of evil" to me. He almost commits a mild genocide then travels to a mountain top and thinks about love. Then he realizes that hardness was not the answer. If he had escaped Semirhage by other means he may have realized that it was not possible to be hard enough because he would always care about Min. This would have allowed him to form a successful alliance with Tuon, found a better way to deal with Grendal, and not nearly kill or exile anyone. The other thing is that maybe because he is Tavern (I know thats not how its spelled), being in a bad mood creates a dark aura around him, but it seems much more likely that this is cause by someone name the dark one.

 

This also ties in with the DR being one with the land.

[Tharand]

his meeting with Tuon was a failure,  /.../ This would have allowed him to form a successful alliance with Tuon

 

I don't think the truce was meant to happen yet. As Tuon says herself, she was then not the Empress but still the Daughter of the Nine Moons. As I interpreted it, Rand can't kneel to the crystal throne before she is the Empress. With Rand's newfound self and positive image of the Seanchan rule, he'll probably return to Tuon in ToM.

[thewalrus777]

his meeting with Tuon was a failure,  /.../ This would have allowed him to form a successful alliance with Tuon

 

I don't think the truce was meant to happen yet. As Tuon says herself, she was then not the Empress but still the Daughter of the Nine Moons. As I interpreted it, Rand can't kneel to the crystal throne before she is the Empress. With Rand's newfound self and positive image of the Seanchan rule, he'll probably return to Tuon in ToM.

 

But we also know for fact that the Seanchan Prophecies are heavily tampered with thanks to Ishidin. The Karaethon Cycle isn't. Which means that Rand will probably never kneel to the Crystal Throne. Oh, he will bind the Nine Moons to him, just not how Fortuona thinks it'll happen.