The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[shinerfan]

To Luckers

 

Great job on the compilation, looks like a ton of work went into that.

 

I'd also like to comment on the other s'angreal more powerful than Callandor that a man can use. In tSR there is an exchange between Asmo and Lanfear where he thinks the access keys to the CK were all destroyed but Lanfear responds that they are all but impossible to destroy and that she knows where two are. One for saidin and one for saidar. This certainly implies that there were once more than one of each. Plus, we know of the melted female access key in Tanchico. But if you couple that with her other comment about there being only two more powerful that a man can use. . . There were two of each, both male keys were more powerful than Callandor.

While typing this it occurred to me that the access keys were actually ter'angreal and the statue itself was the s'angreal.  :'(

[OptimusPrime]

Okay, if possible, id like to know when this interview took place. Was it before TGS was released, or after?

 

Or even better, can we have a link posted (or reposted) for that interview please?

[Luckers]

Okay, if possible, id like to know when this interview took place. Was it before TGS was released, or after?

 

Or even better, can we have a link posted (or reposted) for that interview please?

 

What interview? And to whom are you speaking?

 

To Luckers

 

Great job on the compilation, looks like a ton of work went into that.

 

I'd also like to comment on the other s'angreal more powerful than Callandor that a man can use. In tSR there is an exchange between Asmo and Lanfear where he thinks the access keys to the CK were all destroyed but Lanfear responds that they are all but impossible to destroy and that she knows where two are. One for saidin and one for saidar. This certainly implies that there were once more than one of each. Plus, we know of the melted female access key in Tanchico. But if you couple that with her other comment about there being only two more powerful that a man can use. . . There were two of each, both male keys were more powerful than Callandor.

While typing this it occurred to me that the access keys were actually ter'angreal and the statue itself was the s'angreal.  :'(

 

Thanks for the praise, but I don't know what you are referring to. When did we get Asmo's thoughts on the CK? The only time we actually see Asmo speak openly is in Rand's dreams in chapter 50, and he mentions nothing to do with the CK. In point of fact we know he had somehow figured out one of the Access Keys was in Rhuidean--he ran straight to it.

 

But yes, the Access Keys are ter'angreal. There was only one male Choedan Kal. Lanfear was referring to something else.

[OptimusPrime]

Okay, if possible, id like to know when this interview took place. Was it before TGS was released, or after?

 

Or even better, can we have a link posted (or reposted) for that interview please?

 

What interview? And to whom are you speaking?

 

The one that this thread was made because of, the one where Brandon said there was this thing thats more important than Asmos killer. And Im talking to that guy stood right behind you

[Nightstrike]

It's in the beginning of this thread.

[Nightstrike]

It can also be found in Theoryland's compilation:

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=372

 

The "when" part:

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Union Square Barnes & Noble, NYC 9 November 2009 - WinespringBrother reporting

[shinerfan]

Sorry, I guess I was thinking of the conversation Rand had with Lanfear after fighting Asmo, that's when she mentions there being multiple access keys. Also the conversation between Moridin and Ar'angar in WH. But, they're ter'angreal so it doesn't really matter.

 

 

(On a related note, I'm starting to think Maker's Mark may have various side effects.)

[benny the ball]

Logically if their were two female ter angreal for the CK then there should be another one out their for the dudes. Hope not personally as i want it to be something a little more original than that.

 

Also sorry about the pointless questions but does anyone know if both the female ter angreal were for the same Sa angreal and if they were could they both be used at the same time if they had both still worked(i wonder in case there is another male key)?

[Luckers]

Yes, they were for the same sa'angreal. Lanfear confirms this. And given Rand and Asmodean both use the same Access Key at the same time, yes, two Access Keys could probably be used at the same time.

[Dreamwalker]

Logically if their were two female ter angreal for the CK then there should be another one out their for the dudes. Hope not personally as i want it to be something a little more original than that.

 

I interpreted the end of tGS as destroying the male CK sa'angreal, not just the access key - just like when Nynaeve's access key melted so did the sa'angreal, which would make it irrelevant whether or not another male access key existed. This could be incorrect though.

[Ishmayl]

Sorry I haven't read 237 pages yet, that's a bit of a haul, but maybe someone can just let me know if this has already been discussed, and if so, where.

 

What is going on with the other female access key that was in Tanchico?  We see it in tSR, and I think that it's broken in half at that point, right?  Or was that just some sort of viewing when they were in dreamland that showed the future of the female statue melting?

 

Also, I can't think of anything specific, but I know we haven't heard anything about the Ways in quite some time.  Did anything happen with them (other than Rand setting up various guards to the waygates) in books 4 - 6 that may have something to do with the BUT?

 

Just speculating, I wish I had time to read the whole thread, but I don't. :(

[Luckers]

Sorry I haven't read 237 pages yet, that's a bit of a haul,

 

Yes. Yes it was. *whimpers*

 

What is going on with the other female access key that was in Tanchico?  We see it in tSR, and I think that it's broken in half at that point, right?

 

It was broken. Who knows its state now the actual sa'angreal melted.

 

Also, I can't think of anything specific, but I know we haven't heard anything about the Ways in quite some time.  Did anything happen with them (other than Rand setting up various guards to the waygates) in books 4 - 6 that may have something to do with the BUT?

 

The only new piece of information about the Ways from books 4-6 is that you learn from Perrin that you cannot enter a Waygate in the Dream. This may be significant, as we see a meeting between the Forsaken in tDR which looks remarkably like it takes place in the Ways--I'm working on detailing this at the moment, but if it is significant it was introduced in book 3, so not the BUT.

 

I do have some other thoughts related to the Unseen Eyes, that I'm not ready to produce yet, but keep an eye out. It's coming.

 

Just speculating, I wish I had time to read the whole thread, but I don't.

 

Check out my compilation thread stickied at the top of the board. It's not complete yet, but should be by tomorrow arvo.

[Ishmayl]

I was just reading some old threads I've participated in, and found an interesting theory by Bob T. Dwarf that I kinda like the sounds of.  Here is his direct quote:

 

Being speculation, I think this one belongs here more than it does in the Forsaken Roundup thread.

 

Mesaana - I think in story terms she is the most immediately interesting Forsaken.

 

Where is she and what is she up to?

 

Sheriam was commanded to secure all of the Dream Ter'angreal and give them to Mesaana.  We see from Sheriam's storyline that she had been successful in doing this before the Seanchan attack.

 

Why does Mesaana want them?  What does she plan to do with them?

 

My guess is that she and probably Cyndane and Moghedien, along with probably 18 BA are going on a Heroes Hunt in T'a'R.  I think their intent is to somehow search out the souls of any Heroes that they can find and cast them out of T'a'R as Moggy did with Birgitte.  Difference being that there will be no Elayne handy to bond them and preserve their existence.

 

I think they will be at least successful enough to greatly blunt the effectiveness of any remaining Heroes when Mat sounds the Horn of Valere.

 

The most important casualty will likely be Artur Hawkwing.  Rand now apparently has the real Justice and it would be paradoxical for two Heroes to have the same sword in the same battle.  Another possible will be Rogosh Eagle-eye.

 

In-line with theories expressed by others elsewhere, I think the twins will be spared, being spun-out as Rand and Elayne's children before they can be caught in the purge.

 

These vacancies in the Heroes ranks may be what necessitates Rand's death.  However many Heroes remain will need a strong and powerful leader.  With Hawkwing gone, Birgitte now corporeal and much less effective as a result, Gaidal Cain already reborn but too young to take part, and other unknown holes in their ranks, that would seem to require the Dragon.  Rand will likely die close enough to the time when Mat sounds the Horn that the Hero Hunters will not find the Dragon in T'a'R.

 

Things will likely look very bleak for Team Light by the time Towers of Midnight ends.

 

That seems to me to fit with some/a lot of these BUT theories, in particular to do with t'a'r.  But once again, with 238 pages to read, this may have been discussed in some form or another already. 

 

By the way, I know there are holes in this, I just thought it was an interesting possible theory that could be a result of the BUT, if the BUT has something to do w/ t'a'r.

[DemandredFO]

Even though I don't think it will happen, I think that theory has the virtue of being somewhat new.

[zach]

I just thought of this while posting in another thread but in what book does Rand start hardening himself? and when does the weather start to change?

[Terez]

I just thought of this while posting in another thread but in what book does Rand start hardening himself? and when does the weather start to change?

The weather first changes before the series begins...the winter should have been over by the time the story began, but it lasted until the victory at the Eye, and at Tarwin's Gap.  That began spring, though it was well into summer by then.  There was another winter, and then the next weather anomaly was noticed in The Fires of Heaven, as the summer lingered on and got particularly hot and dry.  This lasted until the Bowl of the Winds was used in The Path of Daggers.  At that point, winter came on and lasted until a natural spring broke in the beginning of Knife of Dreams.  Now it's summer, and the weather appears to be fairly normal.  Instead, we're getting strange clouds and weird wind.

 

Rand starts hardening himself in book 1, but of course it gets particularly significant when Lews Therin's memories start plaguing him in The Fires of Heaven.  This is about when Rand starts freaking about the women who die for him.  Of course, Dumai's Wells at the end of Lord of Chaos also contributes significantly to Rand's hardening trend, as does the incident in Far Madding.  I expect that the issue is more or less resolved as of the end of The Gathering Storm. 

[zach]

I just thought of this while posting in another thread but in what book does Rand start hardening himself? and when does the weather start to change?

The weather first changes before the series begins...the winter should have been over by the time the story began, but it lasted until the victory at the Eye, and at Tarwin's Gap.  That began spring, though it was well into summer by then.  There was another winter, and then the next weather anomaly was noticed in The Fires of Heaven, as the summer lingered on and got particularly hot and dry.  This lasted until the Bowl of the Winds was used in The Path of Daggers.  At that point, winter came on and lasted until a natural spring broke in the beginning of Knife of Dreams.  Now it's summer, and the weather appears to be fairly normal.  Instead, we're getting strange clouds and weird wind.

 

Rand starts hardening himself in book 1, but of course it gets particularly significant when Lews Therin's memories start plaguing him in The Fires of Heaven.  This is about when Rand starts freaking about the women who die for him.  Of course, Dumai's Wells at the end of Lord of Chaos also contributes significantly to Rand's hardening trend, as does the incident in Far Madding.  I expect that the issue is more or less resolved as of the end of The Gathering Storm.  

 

That doesnt address the fact that Rand's nastiness could have potentially caused all the grain to turn black and make people sick.  I know I've seen a quote either in the book or by RJ that the Dragon is one with the land and vise versa, and so far with you're evidence disproving me about the weather, the only way we've actually physically seen any of this is with the grain turning black directly after Rand destroys Greandals palace.  Just a thought tho, one that i haven't seen yet.

[Terez]

That doesnt address the fact that Rand's nastiness could have potentially caused all the grain to turn black and make people sick.

LOL, I didn't know it was supposed to.  Apparently you have posted something about this before?  I haven't been reading the thread.  But it's not a potential; Brandon said so straight out. 

[zach]

That doesnt address the fact that Rand's nastiness could have potentially caused all the grain to turn black and make people sick.

LOL, I didn't know it was supposed to.  Apparently you have posted something about this before?  I haven't been reading the thread.  But it's not a potential; Brandon said so straight out.  

OK good i knew i'd seen something about it.  So how else is rand affecting randland? You proved it wasn't weather... Was rand starting to feel like his Ta'veren effects were beginning to be more negative than balanced or is my memory just trying to make something up?  Maybe it has something to do with that.

[Terez]

OK good i knew i'd seen something about it.  So how else is rand affecting randland? You proved it wasn't weather... Was rand starting to feel like his Ta'veren effects were beginning to be more negative than balanced or is my memory just trying to make something up?  Maybe it has something to do with that.

You mean the BUT?  Thom mentioned the Dragon being one with the land in book 1, so that's not it.  Also, so far as we know, Rand is only causing the food spoilage, which iirc began in book 8 or 9.  Brandon indicated that the other Pattern weirdness (like the ghosts and the bubbles of evil and the weird clouds and wind) are all effects of the Dark One touching the Pattern.  There's a chance that this includes his orders for the Forsaken (particularly Demandred) to use balefire, but we really have no evidence that the Forsaken have actually been following those orders, and Brandon's words tend to suggest a more direct touch anyway.

[zach]

I feel like knowing if the voice in Rand's head was him creating another personality to deal or if it is the DO would help me figure this out. (just for example i mean maybe if it was the DO then now that Rand will no longer hear the voice he would have somehow distanced himself from the DO enough to not allow him to affect the land through the dragon.  if that makes sense.)  Don't those bubbles of evil occur around Rand more often because of him being Ta'veren?  And if we learned from book 1 that the dragon is one with the land then Rand must be doing more than just spoiling some food, like him creating sunlight, a hole in the clouds, even though they're unnatural clouds.  I'm sure we'll see in ToM being as we'll be able to compare with Rand's new outlook.

[Terez]

I feel like knowing if the voice in Rand's head was him creating another personality to deal or if it is the DO would help me figure this out.

The former.  Some few still deny that, but it became clear to most after The Gathering Storm.  And we only learned of the saying in book 1, not the actual effects.  And yes, the effects are due to Rand being ta'veren.

[zach]

Well now we have seen some of the effects but only in one aspect.  Could it really so strongly effect the grain this time around and not do anything else to any other part of the land?  i personally don't think so.

 

So it being the dark one that means he had control of Rand in the manner where they were attacked by trollocs and started spamming deathgates instead of destroying rand or keeping control of him?  iirc the voice actually releases the power back to rand, or gives rand control again.  Yes he does pull in so much that he almost kills himself but that fits perfectly with it actually being LTT.  I thought that it was the DO since i'd seen talk about it being him but that generic bad guy letting the good guy live because he's too cocky scene seems like bull in the WoT world to me.

 

If it was the DO then i see being Ta'veren being much more useful for Rand now that it's not distorted by the greatest evil.

[Luckers]

Ignore Terez. tGS if anything made it clear that LTT was a real voice. She just has a chip on her shoulder about it.

[Terez]

Ignore Terez. tGS if anything made it clear that LTT was a real voice. She just has a chip on her shoulder about it.

LOL

 

"They were not two men, and never had been."

 

Everyone else is just in denial.  ;D