The Dark one and Light one- Purely concept?

[Zeronena]

I've always noticed, Rand and fellows fight for the Light, figuratively, and the Darkfriends fight for the dark, Yet the Creator NOR the Dark one have -ever- taken an appearance here.

 

 

From what I've gleamed, Moridin has been posing as the Dark One the entire time giving out orders in his name, even in Shadar Logoth.

 

 

It leads me to believe, Is the entire concept of Light/Dark in WOT just an illusion created to be pulled over our eyes?

 

 

If Indeed the Dark one was the one who spoke to the Forsaken in Shadar Logoth ( Namely Aran'Gar and Osan'gar after rebirth) Then where the hell is the Creator? Why would the Dark have such a force over the world and the Creator have none what so over?

 

 

I apologize for any incoherency, and the rushed nature of my post. I just needed to get it out of my mind and see everyone elses inputs, while i had time.

[Talmanes]

Well first off Ishamael, who is reborn as Moridin, is the one who was posing as the Dark One. Mordeth is the one who was in Shadar Logoth and is completely different. The Dark One speaks to the Forsaken in Shayol Ghul. This is the real Dark One, not anyone posing as him. He is the one who brings the Forsaken back to life, and did that to Moridin/Ishamael too. The closest thing to a physical form of the Dark One is Shaidar Haran. Also the whole Dark One, Creator thing is like the devil, God relationship. The devil/Dark One influence the world, while God/the Creator are not completely absent, they do not intervene on the scale that the devil/Dark One. Robert Jordan was a Christian, and this is the most likely explanation. 

[The Fisher King]

These are interesting thoughts zeroenan.

 

I agree with most of Talmane's Take.

 

Shaidar Haran is the DO's avatar and Morishy is DO's general (nae'blis)

 

The Creator...imo...just hasn't decided to take a hand yet.

 

It could be argued The Dragon Reborn is his avatar though.

 

 

 

Fish

[Mr Ares]

I've always noticed, Rand and fellows fight for the Light, figuratively, and the Darkfriends fight for the dark, Yet the Creator NOR the Dark one have -ever- taken an appearance here.

Shai'tan spoke to Demandred in LoC Prologue (it's the ALL CAPS stuff), and the voice at the end of EotW (IT IS NOT HERE) is generally taken to be the Creator.

 

From what I've gleamed, Moridin has been posing as the Dark One the entire time giving out orders in his name, even in Shadar Logoth.

No, Moridin never posed as Shai'tan, nor did Ishamael. Ishy used the name Ba'alzamon, which was believed to be the Trolloc name for Shai'tan, but quite possibly wasn't - it could well have always been their name for Ishy.

 

If Indeed the Dark one was the one who spoke to the Forsaken in Shadar Logoth ( Namely Aran'Gar and Osan'gar after rebirth) Then where the hell is the Creator? Why would the Dark have such a force over the world and the Creator have none what so over?

Well one of the things the voice said in EotW was I WILL TAKE NO PART. The Creator is non-interventionist. It was Shaidar Haran who spoke to Osan'gar and Aran'gar, a creature RJ described as "The Dark One in shadowy form". (RJ did say he didn't think of SH as an avatar, but we don't have to agree with RJ's definition of an avatar.)

 

Also the whole Dark One, Creator thing is like the devil, God relationship. The devil/Dark One influence the world, while God/the Creator are not completely absent, they do not intervene on the scale that the devil/Dark One. Robert Jordan was a Christian, and this is the most likely explanation.

Despite RJ being Christian, the theology of WoT isn't, not quite. For one thing, God created the Devil, but the Creator didn't create Shai'tan - they are equals and opposites. It is more akin to Zoroastrianism than Christianity. You are right in your general thrust, though - Shai'tan is an active force in the world, trying to destroy it, but the Creator has left it. In CoT, Rand thinks of the Creator as like a gardener, who doesn't weep for each blossom that falls. He has left the Wheel a champion in Rand, it doesn't need him to stay around.

[Mr. Dragon]

From what I've gleamed, Moridin has been posing as the Dark One the entire time giving out orders in his name, even in Shadar Logoth.

No, Moridin never posed as Shai'tan, nor did Ishamael. Ishy used the name Ba'alzamon, which was believed to be the Trolloc name for Shai'tan, but quite possibly wasn't - it could well have always been their name for Ishy.

Yeah, in trolloc language Ba'alzamon means 'heart of the dark', for the first three books, there was a misunderstanding between the humans that it was the trollocs's name for the Dark One, but we then found out it was their name for Ishamael. This probably relates to Ishamael being something akin to the champion of the Dark One

[mb]

Shadar Logoth?  The books tell of only three times of any Forsaken being there.

First was in Eye of World.  (Ishamael chasing Two Rivers folk)

Second was in Crown of Swords.  (Rand chasing Sammael & meeting Moridin)

Third was in Winter's Heart.  (The Cleansing)

 

Shayol Ghul is probably the location you are thinking of.

 

[Zeronena]

Wow! It's amazing what facts you get mixed up from reading all of the books together.

 

Thank you guys so much for clearing a lot of my points up, and yes I meant Shayol Ghul.

 

I'd really like to tip my hat to everyone for being so mature and collected on this forum.

 

 

 

I still think it's a bit unfair though, that the creator left them to fend with themselves agaisnt a being just as powerful as himself, with just a champion.

 

It also leads me to believe that the Creator isn't inherently good, nor is the Dark one Inherently bad.

 

So, even if the dark one wins, and the pattern is unwritten, it doesn't affect the Creator? It seems like a cruel game of the creator, well, creating just so the Dark One can end it all.

[OptimusPrime]

It seems like a cruel game of the creator, well, creating just so the Dark One can end it all.

 

But the Creator created the Wheel, an aspect of reality that makes the encessary heroes, champions and Ta'veren to do the job instead. We all know Rand is going to win one way or another

[Impressive Bosom]

Let's keep in mind too, that when the Bore was first created, there was certainly something tangible that reached out and directly affected the world, altering it forever... something that can bring its adherents back from the dead, something that tainted the male half of the Source. These are and were physical acts and suggest a deliberate intelligence.

 

I think the correlation between God and Lucifer is a fair one. God creating everything including free will, setting the scales of balance and judgement... with evil being a deliberate choice by those to whom he has granted free will - even lesser 'entities', and the Creator's work only able to be undone by those who make up its whole. He gave the world to them, but they have to earn it by defeating those who would destroy it and in so doing give it and their own lives inherent value.