Mat's Plotline (Spoilers for the whole book)

[aunt_pol]

 

I think Mat will come down on Moiraine's side of the scales fairly quickly, he just can't resist a damsel in distress scenario...

[Sharaman]

If Brandon is channelling Semirhage, Mat will never open Verin's letter :).

He's just go ahead and set up his artillery factory, rescue Moiraine, lose an eye, get friendly with ravens, etc. But he'll never open the letter and all us fans will itch with frustration.

 

[Dakota]

I thought that Mat choosing between two AS had something to do with him when he was leaving Ebou Dar after the Senchean occupation.  Didn't one of the AS want him to stay to free a bunch of others, some of whom had been broken?  Seemed to me at the time that if he had, he would have likely been captured and executed, and thus left TG without one of it's three key ta'veren.  Instead he listens to the other AS and leaves them there when he leaves the city.

 

I could be mistaken, but I thought I remember hearing somewhere that this event had a good chance of being what the "two AS on a balance scale" was in reference too.  I could very well be mistaken however.

[Sentinel78]

I thought that Mat choosing between two AS had something to do with him when he was leaving Ebou Dar after the Senchean occupation.  Didn't one of the AS want him to stay to free a bunch of others, some of whom had been broken?  Seemed to me at the time that if he had, he would have likely been captured and executed, and thus left TG without one of it's three key ta'veren.  Instead he listens to the other AS and leaves them there when he leaves the city.

 

What you're talking about was Joline refusing to believe that a captured Aes Sedai / damane could truly have been brainwashed by the Seanchan to the point that she was no longer loyal to the White Tower.  Teslyn tried to explain this to her.  It was when Mat was freeing the damane the night he kidnapped Tuon.  I didn't think Mat had to think really hard about this, and it doesn't sound like that choice was something the world rides on. 

[Auld Manriva]

As far as Mat "balancing" two AS.. I'd agree it has to do with the "rescue" v. Verins' letter, which I"m guessing has "partially" to do with his needing to go and retrieve the Horn of Valere. Both need to happen pronto. With Mat not thinking much about or not having "gate weavers" to hand I could see him getting pretty stressed over the seeming conflict. But it'll be fairly simply resolved I think.

[Sharaman]

Don't you think Teslin, Joline, Edesina and co, would have picked up the travelling weave while being transported to Caemlyn?

 

[WolfDragonFox]

Don't you think Teslin, Joline, Edesina and co, would have picked up the travelling weave while being transported to Caemlyn?

 

 

Thats a good point but if she weaved it w/o them seeing it they wouldn't know it, and secondly, they don't particularly go out of their ways to help Mat and he would never ask them out of Two Rivers stubborness alone.

[Sharaman]

Teslyn would help Mat anytime in doing anything. The other two may or may not - Edesina probably would, Joline would try to bargain. But Teslyn promised to do anything when he said he'd free her and she has been pretty helpful everytime there's been a problem. Think about it, first she gave him the note to warn the girls, then she healed Egeanin, then she got Joline to lay off when Joline was hassling him, warned Mat that Joline was tryig to con him into being a warder then she made the signal lights for his fights, then she fought for him willingly when he needed her without asking anything in return.  

I think the AS would have picked up the weave. Mat told them to come and meet Verin before she made the Gate - something like "Give Cerin a tent to sit in and wait while we pack up and tell the AS she's here". So they'd have been on hand.

Even the Seanchan women may have, depending on how far advanced they are.

In that case, they'd help him too.

[Auld Manriva]

#1 .. Verin is/was Black, she wouldn't show the weave to the others I don't think. Even though she was "Black with a heart of gold".

 

#2 .. Teslyn was an Elaida AS.. So Verin ain't gonna show her for that reason alone.

 

#3 .. Not everyone CAN weave a gateway.

 

#4 .. Did Jolene not see the weave when Eggy or whoever made the gateway for SuperGirls/Mat et al, to go to Elbow D'uh? I don't recall. I don't know about Eddy, have no clue. At any rate if Jolene COULD make a gateway would she not have done so already?

[WolfDragonFox]

Teslyn would help Mat anytime in doing anything. The other two may or may not - Edesina probably would, Joline would try to bargain. But Teslyn promised to do anything when he said he'd free her and she has been pretty helpful everytime there's been a problem. Think about it, first she gave him the note to warn the girls, then she healed Egeanin, then she got Joline to lay off when Joline was hassling him, warned Mat that Joline was tryig to con him into being a warder then she made the signal lights for his fights, then she fought for him willingly when he needed her without asking anything in return. 

I think the AS would have picked up the weave. Mat told them to come and meet Verin before she made the Gate - something like "Give Cerin a tent to sit in and wait while we pack up and tell the AS she's here". So they'd have been on hand.

Even the Seanchan women may have, depending on how far advanced they are.

In that case, they'd help him too.

 

Yep sorry I kinda skimmed that post on my way out the door earlier...lol I would exclude Teslyn from that list, but still she has to be included somewhat since we know that Mat doesn't like AS help because it always comes with strings.

[WolfDragonFox]

Everyone on here must watch this video that Dragonmount posted on their Twitter account.  As a film professional I can tell you this is great quality but there are some strangeties in the way they did the questioning...but that isn't really a big issue that will turn you off of it, just a professional observation that distracted me personally.  Anyway I only subscribe to DM's twitter account because every now and again you actually get something good or useful, most other times its useless non WoT related spouts.  Anyway here is the link to the video.

 

http://mythmakersfilm.com/sanderson/SANDERSON_FINAL.mov 

 

It is information for the most part that you probably have read somewhere before but it is nice to see in a short TGS signing documentary.

[Sharaman]

#1 .. Verin is/was Black, she wouldn't show the weave to the others I don't think. Even though she was "Black with a heart of gold".

 

Does Verin have the ability to invert her weaves? She didn't even know it was possible until Shadar Logoth. If not, the AS and Suldam see the gate anyway since they travel through it.

 

 

#2 .. Teslyn was an Elaida AS.. So Verin ain't gonna show her for that reason alone.

 

Verin is uncommitted - she has no hassles with either the Tower or Rebels. That's why she can peacefully land up at the Tower and get access to Egwene.

 

#3 .. Not everyone CAN weave a gateway.

 

Most AS can - we have no reason to suspect that these three and the ex-Suldam are all incapable. They can certainly link to do so if required. All AS know how to link.

 

#4 .. Did Jolene not see the weave when Eggy or whoever made the gateway for SuperGirls/Mat et al, to go to Elbow D'uh? I don't recall. I don't know about Eddy, have no clue. At any rate if Jolene COULD make a gateway would she not have done so already?

 

Joline was already in Ebou Dar as part of Elaida's embassy along with Teslyn. The Supergirls and Mat were dropped well outside the city (Elayne wove the Gate from Salidar). None of the Ebou Dar AS who became damane (Teslyn-Edesna included) or Windfinder damane knew how to weave Gates - else the Seanchan would not have been desperate to get travelling.

That said. it's still a RAFO but there's a fairly good chance that Mat now has channelers who can travel.

 

 

 

[lordofsoup]

could teslyn, joline, and edsina have been in their wagon, not paying attention when verin transported them to andor?  i dont think this would work.  they must have gotten traveling from verin. 

[WolfDragonFox]

Most AS can - we have no reason to suspect that these three and the ex-Suldam are all incapable. They can certainly link to do so if required. All AS know how to link.

 

This is not a factual statement at all.  Nowhere does it say or even imply that most can travel.  Actually the opposite is much more the case.  Everyone can learn the weave yes but most are not strong enough to do it to any use.  The only thing right here is that the weak ones can link and make a strong enough gateway.  This is not to say that those in Mats party are too individually weak to Travel but yes they could link and do so but it still remains to be seen whether or not they were taught the weave which doesn't seem likely to me.

[Auld Manriva]

Seeing something made such as a gateway for example does not necessarily teach the weave to make it. It certainly helps I admit or else why the concern over the gateway that was picked apart.

 

I think Verin, even though ostensibly "un-commmited," was enough of an Egwene friend that she would NOT show a Tower AS anything like gateway making. I'm also not exactly convinced she was freely waltzing about the Tower, and wasn't her passing after the raid?. I could easily be wrong about that though. I have a hard enough time most days remembering yesterday, much less events in these books.

 

Jolene was a Tower Green? OK, I'd forgotten ( :o), what with all the squabbling etc. Had I thought about it, I should have recalled Elayne not leaving any of her party, except for Mat and his Red Arms, behind.

 

 

 

 

[Sharaman]

Verin went to the Tower, checked for the Oath Rod, failed to find it, went to the kitchen, got some tea to mix her poison, then went back to chat to Egwene. She was allowed free access to Egwene without watch or supervision, food was sent for her, Egwene was told "let her relax and sleep here if she's tired" or something like that.

She died before the Raid, on the same night.

So yeah,  I'd say Verin had freedom of action in the Tower.

Would she willingly teach the weave? Dunno but if five saidar channelers pass through a Gate that wasn't weave-inverted (again dunno if Verin can invert), chances are, they might pick up the  method. Even a channeller too weak to make a Gate can learn the weaves - Sorilea shows them to Cadsuane.

So there's a fair chance Mat has Gate-weavers with him. Not certain of course. 

Teslyn and Joline were both sisters who Elaida punished by sending to Ebou Dar. They hate Elaida.

Edesina was uncommitted and just happened to be captured by the Seanchan elsewhere and brought to Ebou Dar (IIRC)

 

[lordofsoup]

i beleive that edsina was of the rebels.  thats why she was slightly scared of teslyn and joline and did the least talking

[jncrft]

On a side note, I have to say my favorite Mat part is when he tells the scenario of a man dicing against a woman playing with blank dice.

 

I have to say that when I got to that part I was thrown out of the story completely because Mat talks about a dice game that uses only two dice. I did some searching, and I can find a place where Mat, in his old memories, knows of a game with two dice that is now played with four.  Loial once talks about a three-dice game in Tear, still almost all the games involve a set of five dice.  Not two. May be a little picky, but it interrupted my reading.

 

First time post, so thanks for listening.

 

Jon

[Morsmordre]

Even if the AS who were with Matt saw the weave for the Gateway, it doesn't mean that he now has gateway-weavers because he wants to get rid of the women. Hence, what's the point in discussing whether Teslyn, Joline and Edesina had seen the weave?

 

Do you think that Noal should be the other person who's going to help Matt and Thom in the Tower of Genjei? I find it very... inconvenient. It was relatively easy to find that third person and, judging from we've all seen so far, nothing in the books happens easy. Perhaps Noal will die (or try to kill them) and somehow Olver's going to help them..?

[thewalrus777]

Even if the AS who were with Matt saw the weave for the Gateway, it doesn't mean that he now has gateway-weavers because he wants to get rid of the women. Hence, what's the point in discussing whether Teslyn, Joline and Edesina had seen the weave?

 

Do you think that Noal should be the other person who's going to help Matt and Thom in the Tower of Genjei? I find it very... inconvenient. It was relatively easy to find that third person and, judging from we've all seen so far, nothing in the books happens easy. Perhaps Noal will die (or try to kill them) and somehow Olver's going to help them..?

 

Noal is widely accepted as Jain Farstrider. He's been with Mat for quite some time now and will probably be the third person to go with Thom and Mat to the ToG. And besides Noal/Jain is trying to make amends for things he is ashamed of doing in the past. That's probably why he's with Mat in the first place. Knowing that Mat is connected to the DR and the fight against the DO, would definitely lend to Noal possibly redeeming himself. Plus i think Mat and Thom will find out who Noal really is. And if not them maybe Moiraine will know his true ID.

[witsd]

Plus i think Mat and Thom will find out who Noal really is. And if not them maybe Moiraine will know his true ID.

Personally, I suspect that Thom already has a fair idea who he is.

[thewalrus777]

Plus i think Mat and Thom will find out who Noal really is. And if not them maybe Moiraine will know his true ID.

Personally, I suspect that Thom already has a fair idea who he is.

 

Thom knows everything. Your right, he probaly already knows who Noal really is. He's probably decided that it's Noal's decision and not his to reveal that secret. Thom didn't get to be the best at The Game of Houses by being unaware of everything around him.

[Jaius]

As soon as I read the first word in Mat's first chapter 'women', I knew it was Mat and I would be smiling. I actually laughed out loud at Mat's indignation when no one appreciated the 'good drama' in the back stories he wrote, especially when all that effort is for nothing when Verin shows up out of the blue.

 

I also liked seeing Rand and Nynaeve defend Mat during the meeting with Tuon.

[Sharaman]

Nyn's defence of Mat is interesting given how ungracious she was about between TDR and CoS. It took Brigitte and Aviendha's combined urgings plus Elayne's persuasion for her to even say "Thank you" and to stop shouting at Mat.

She has really grown up. The other two supergirls still have huge flashes of immaturity and temper tantrums.

 

[aunt_pol]

 

 

 

Anyone reckon Nynaeve will spot and remove the Compulsion that seems to be knitted into Noal's brain? He does remember that there's stuff he can't remember, book 9 or so, and I think he cut off mid sentence confused at some point in KOD as well. He's not a blithering idiot, nor slow witted, so it's not the sledgehammer variety of Compulsion, so presumably he'd be uninjured by it's removal. Could be all sorts of interestin' stuff in that oul' skull... Maybe some nice info on Slayer...