Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[Calderis]

Mat had one manifestation of a memory that wasn't his. We do not know this was a past life. I'm inclined to put it down to the Old Blood. Mat was strong in it. I can explain at greater (and more tedious) length later, if you're interested.

 

I presume you refer to Mat's 'possession' that occurred when he was being Healed by the Aes Sedai from his connection to the ruby dagger?  I always thought this was a projection from the dagger itself which was basically being 'attacked' by the Healing.  Maybe it was Mordeth, but more likely this 'possession' or voice was whoever actually owned that dagger back in Aridhol, which was then passed onto Mat.  I didn't think this was the Old Blood.  Just my opinion though, I don't know if RJ ever commented on this.

 

No, this goes back to tEotW, as they are racing towards Shadar Logoth, and run into the scouting band of Trollocs and Lan fights the Fade. Lan Screams his battle cry, and after hearing Moiraine's tale of Manethren Rand yells it as a battle cry.

 

The old blood then comes out in Mat and he screams "Carai an Caldazar! Carai an Ellisande! Al Ellisande" Which was the battlecry of the last king of Manethren.

 

It's not his own memery, and he wasn't even sure where it came from, and Moiraine later explained this to all of them.

[Mr Ares]

Mat had one manifestation of a memory that wasn't his. We do not know this was a past life. I'm inclined to put it down to the Old Blood. Mat was strong in it. I can explain at greater (and more tedious) length later, if you're interested.

I presume you refer to Mat's 'possession' that occurred when he was being Healed by the Aes Sedai from his connection to the ruby dagger? I always thought this was a projection from the dagger itself which was basically being 'attacked' by the Healing. Maybe it was Mordeth, but more likely this 'possession' or voice was whoever actually owned that dagger back in Aridhol, which was then passed onto Mat. I didn't think this was the Old Blood. Just my opinion though, I don't know if RJ ever commented on this.

IIRC, this battle was in Manetheren, against Trollocs. We know the Old Blood is strong in Mat, and so it is possible that this was just a stronger manifestation.

 

So how come no one refers to Rand as "Lord of the Morning"? Why does Moridin never appear in Rand's dreams as Ba'alzamon with burning fire in his eyes (though Rand surprised Moridin once)? Why is Moridin never referred to as "Betrayer of Hope"?

Rand is not the Lord of the Morning, LTT was (although that might have made its way into his titles. Pretty sure it did, anyway), Rand's dreams are warded, the flaming body cavities were an advanced form of saa, and his aren't that bad yet, and Moridin isn't the Betrayer of Hope, he is Death. Betrayer of Hope was Ishy.

 

I just hope Sanderson doesn't do something at the end like, "The Dark One has been defeated and all the Shadowspawn dead. Rand and Co. broke the world again and turned it into Earth, but the True Source can no longer be channeled, so everyone turns into accountants and stockbrokers and such and the 4th Age is our world." That would suck.

More likely the First Age was our world, so there is a while before it comes again. Also, while the OP will go away eventually, I don't think it's imminent.

[Sentinel78]

More likely the First Age was our world, so there is a while before it comes again. Also, while the OP will go away eventually, I don't think it's imminent.

 

Well if that's true the 7th Age ends with the Big Bang and the First Age is roughly 10 billion years.  7th Age might be said to end more depressingly then the 2nd Age.

[mossman87]

More likely the First Age was our world, so there is a while before it comes again. Also, while the OP will go away eventually, I don't think it's imminent.

 

Well if that's true the 7th Age ends with the Big Bang and the First Age is roughly 10 billion years.  7th Age might be said to end more depressingly then the 2nd Age.

 

Assuming our world was created from the Big Bang. I certainly believe it, but who knows, legends change.

[wingedearth]

Rand is not the Lord of the Morning, LTT was (although that might have made its way into his titles. Pretty sure it did, anyway), Rand's dreams are warded, the flaming body cavities were an advanced form of saa, and his aren't that bad yet, and Moridin isn't the Betrayer of Hope, he is Death. Betrayer of Hope was Ishy.

 

I thought Rand al'Thor = Lews Therin Telamon and Moridin = Ishamael. No? I mean, in Ishy's case, he wasn't even reborn as a new baby, he was just brought back to life.  That's why Rand and Lews were temporarily one single person at one point in Gathering (I think it was when Rand channeled the TP). And the term "Lord of the Morning" (i.e. Lucifer) is another title, just like "Dragon", so I thought that would carry over as well.

[wingedearth]

What if the TP is actually a manifestation of GLoD? As in it's not simply a mysterious source of power - it is GLoD, borrowing from the Christian Transubstantiation concept. When he wants to, GLoD can manifest as TP.

In that case, LTT's horror would make more sense. Also to some extent, we'd have a better understanding of why GLoD let RaT channel TP - it binds him to the Dark.

(Assuming of course, that it isn't simply the open circuit between Moridin and RaT that allows the access without GLoD being aware of it.)

 

I think when one channels the True Power, one is channeling the Dark One, but I don't think the Dark One is just some inanimate force of nature.  The descriptions of the Dark One all along, particularly from darkfriends and Forsaken, imply the Dark One is a conscious being. And I think the Dark One can speak to people at Shayol Ghul.

 

That being said, the Dark One's prison was actually open during the entire War of the Shadow, but I haven't seen any references to the Dark One actually leaving Shayol Ghul and walking around or driving down the street for a pizza or anything.

[mossman87]

Rand is not the Lord of the Morning, LTT was (although that might have made its way into his titles. Pretty sure it did, anyway), Rand's dreams are warded, the flaming body cavities were an advanced form of saa, and his aren't that bad yet, and Moridin isn't the Betrayer of Hope, he is Death. Betrayer of Hope was Ishy.

 

I thought Rand al'Thor = Lews Therin Telamon and Moridin = Ishamael. No? I mean, in Ishy's case, he wasn't even reborn as a new baby, he was just brought back to life.  That's why Rand and Lews were temporarily one single person at one point in Gathering (I think it was when Rand channeled the TP). And the term "Lord of the Morning" (i.e. Lucifer) is another title, just like "Dragon", so I thought that would carry over as well.

 

Technically you could say they are the same.  They are the same soul, different people.

 

In the next Age, Betrayer of Hope and Death will be two different people, in the Age after that who knows what the myth will be by then?

[Sharaman]

What if the TP is actually a manifestation of GLoD? As in it's not simply a mysterious source of power - it is GLoD, borrowing from the Christian Transubstantiation concept. When he wants to, GLoD can manifest as TP.

In that case, LTT's horror would make more sense. Also to some extent, we'd have a better understanding of why GLoD let RaT channel TP - it binds him to the Dark.

(Assuming of course, that it isn't simply the open circuit between Moridin and RaT that allows the access without GLoD being aware of it.)

 

I think when one channels the True Power, one is channeling the Dark One, but I don't think the Dark One is just some inanimate force of nature.  The descriptions of the Dark One all along, particularly from darkfriends and Forsaken, imply the Dark One is a conscious being. And I think the Dark One can speak to people at Shayol Ghul.

 

That being said, the Dark One's prison was actually open during the entire War of the Shadow, but I haven't seen any references to the Dark One actually leaving Shayol Ghul and walking around or driving down the street for a pizza or anything.

 

I mean that when GLoD wants to, he can appear to people as the TP, just as he can communicate as an All Caps voice in the head. He's an incorporeal being of almost limitless power who can fiddle with physical laws as we see in SG. One of his aspects (I'm deliberately not using the word avatar because people who are unacquainted with Hindu philosophy tend to have funny associations with that word) may be as the TP. My hypothesis: TP is not an inanimate force like the OP, it is GLoD choosing to reveal himself in a specific way.

[mossman87]

What if the TP is actually a manifestation of GLoD? As in it's not simply a mysterious source of power - it is GLoD, borrowing from the Christian Transubstantiation concept. When he wants to, GLoD can manifest as TP.

In that case, LTT's horror would make more sense. Also to some extent, we'd have a better understanding of why GLoD let RaT channel TP - it binds him to the Dark.

(Assuming of course, that it isn't simply the open circuit between Moridin and RaT that allows the access without GLoD being aware of it.)

 

I think when one channels the True Power, one is channeling the Dark One, but I don't think the Dark One is just some inanimate force of nature.  The descriptions of the Dark One all along, particularly from darkfriends and Forsaken, imply the Dark One is a conscious being. And I think the Dark One can speak to people at Shayol Ghul.

 

That being said, the Dark One's prison was actually open during the entire War of the Shadow, but I haven't seen any references to the Dark One actually leaving Shayol Ghul and walking around or driving down the street for a pizza or anything.

 

I mean that when GLoD wants to, he can appear to people as the TP, just as he can communicate as an All Caps voice in the head. He's an incorporeal being of almost limitless power who can fiddle with physical laws as we see in SG. One of his aspects (I'm deliberately not using the word avatar because people who are unacquainted with Hindu philosophy tend to have funny associations with that word) may be as the TP. My hypothesis: TP is not an inanimate force like the OP, it is GLoD choosing to reveal himself in a specific way.

 

I view it the same way.

[toss the dice]

Rand is not the Lord of the Morning, LTT was (although that might have made its way into his titles. Pretty sure it did, anyway), Rand's dreams are warded, the flaming body cavities were an advanced form of saa, and his aren't that bad yet, and Moridin isn't the Betrayer of Hope, he is Death. Betrayer of Hope was Ishy.

 

I thought Rand al'Thor = Lews Therin Telamon and Moridin = Ishamael. No? I mean, in Ishy's case, he wasn't even reborn as a new baby, he was just brought back to life.  That's why Rand and Lews were temporarily one single person at one point in Gathering (I think it was when Rand channeled the TP). And the term "Lord of the Morning" (i.e. Lucifer) is another title, just like "Dragon", so I thought that would carry over as well.

Rand is not the Lord of the Morning. He is the REBORN Lord of the Morning not the real thing. Moridin is the REBORN Ishamael. Reborn is the key word. They both have the thread in the pattern of the original person but they have a different body and are changed in who they are. LTT and Ishy's role was to start off the cycle of the Dragon. Rand and Moridin's is too end it. Notice that he didnt have a connection with Ishy. It only became a connection when it was Moridin (even if it was through the balefire collision). The Reborn version is different than the starting person.

[Calderis]

Rand is not the Lord of the Morning, LTT was (although that might have made its way into his titles. Pretty sure it did, anyway), Rand's dreams are warded, the flaming body cavities were an advanced form of saa, and his aren't that bad yet, and Moridin isn't the Betrayer of Hope, he is Death. Betrayer of Hope was Ishy.

 

I thought Rand al'Thor = Lews Therin Telamon and Moridin = Ishamael. No? I mean, in Ishy's case, he wasn't even reborn as a new baby, he was just brought back to life.  That's why Rand and Lews were temporarily one single person at one point in Gathering (I think it was when Rand channeled the TP). And the term "Lord of the Morning" (i.e. Lucifer) is another title, just like "Dragon", so I thought that would carry over as well.

Rand is not the Lord of the Morning. He is the REBORN Lord of the Morning not the real thing. Moridin is the REBORN Ishamael. Reborn is the key word. They both have the thread in the pattern of the original person but they have a different body and are changed in who they are. LTT and Ishy's role was to start off the cycle of the Dragon. Rand and Moridin's is too end it. Notice that he didnt have a connection with Ishy. It only became a connection when it was Moridin (even if it was through the balefire collision). The Reborn version is different than the starting person.

[Calderis]

Ugh sorry about that, didn't mean to post just the quote.

 

On this point though, I have to say, with Rand and LTT, I definetely see the same soul 2 diff people thing.

 

With Moridin, Cyndane, Aran'Gar and the like I don't think it works that way though. They weren't spun out again naturally by the pattern, they were shifted into someone elses body, a darkfriend stripped of their soul (someone please have the quote for this, it's from RJ), and placed into a new body.

 

They still ARE the same person, with the same memories. They may choose to hide this and act differently, and hormones may drastically change them in some cases....

 

But they are still the same person.

[mossman87]

Ugh sorry about that, didn't mean to post just the quote.

 

On this point though, I have to say, with Rand and LTT, I definetely see the same soul 2 diff people thing.

 

With Moridin, Cyndane, Aran'Gar and the like I don't think it works that way though. They weren't spun out again naturally by the pattern, they were shifted into someone elses body, a darkfriend stripped of their soul (someone please have the quote for this, it's from RJ), and placed into a new body.

 

They still ARE the same person, with the same memories. They may choose to hide this and act differently, and hormones may drastically change them in some cases....

 

But they are still the same person.

 

But everyone's the same soul but different person.  The soul is immortal, even the forsaken souls are.  Rand IS LTT, or more specifically Rand and LTT are the Dragon soul.  You say spun out naturally, but think of what that means in a computer way, their soul was put in a new body, the same exact way the Dragon soul was put in LTT and put in Rand.  The same way the Ishamael soul was put in Moridin, the same way the Lanfear soul was put in Cyndane, the same way Grey Men have NO soul, just motor and brain ability.

 

The only difference is the dark guys remember their past lives, and considering we know the taint helped with Rand and his LTT voice, and what Semirhage said in KOD, I say the dark guys remember their past lives because the DO destroys that barrier.

[Calderis]

Starting with that barrier in tact and growing up, discovering yourself, and all that's entailed in maturing shapes every person differently. Rand's barrier was slightly deteriorated and he got hints of memory from LTT.

 

In the case of the forsaken, a person was killed, and they were placed, no barrier ever created to be torn away, into a new body.

 

The largest difference here, isn't the barrier, it's that the forsaken are placed into bodies that already had a thread spun out to them. The "barrier" has no place, as the physical vessel is not theirs.

[mossman87]

Starting with that barrier in tact and growing up, discovering yourself, and all that's entailed in maturing shapes every person differently. Rand's barrier was slightly deteriorated and he got hints of memory from LTT.

 

In the case of the forsaken, a person was killed, and they were placed, no barrier ever created to be torn away, into a new body.

 

The largest difference here, isn't the barrier, it's that the forsaken are placed into bodies that already had a thread spun out to them. The "barrier" has no place, as the physical vessel is not theirs.

 

But the Pattern places souls in fetuses, it's the same thing.

 

Bodies in WoT are just organic hosts, they don't really mean anything, to the Pattern or to the DO.

 

Edit: Reading your post over a few times, you are right, though I believe even if the Pattern implanted a soul into an adult body there would be the barrier there.  The DO is the essence of destruction and since we know the taint helps the male channelers hear their past lives I believe normally they'd have no idea unless the TP was there.

 

But still "it's that the forsaken are placed into bodies that already had a thread spun out to them." isn't right, it's the soul that matters, not the body.  The body means nothing to the Pattern or to the DO, the body is the same as a mountain that got destroyed, it's organic, it's a vessel, that's all.

[mossman87]

In any case, I really believe it's the same, the only reason I believe the Creator doesn't break that barrier is because:

 

Q: What would happen if the Dark One was victorious? And why can the Dark One act on the world but it seems the Creator cannot?

RJ: Read and find out. It's a good question, and an important theme -- but read and find out.

 

There's a reason they live life, to learn what the Creator wants them to, and it's what Rand learned ontop of Dragonmount.

[Calderis]

I'll agree to disagree. I think that natural placement, and psychological development are what create the barrier. It's part of being created in the womb. It's a part of the thread that is made to maintain sanity, as development with the memory of ages and ages of lives just wouldn't work.

 

a Soul, never placed in TaR, never given the "rest" between lives that most receive, and placed into another body shortly after it's moment of death never has the barrier created.

 

My main reason for this is Birgitte. She was ripped from TaR and never born, still has her memory's from other lives, but it's her body. Her mind can not cope with that much information so it's continually fading until this life is what will exist, but a part of this life for her is knowing there was something more so I doubt everything will ever completely fade.

 

The forsaken don't have this problem. the complete lack of barrier isn't there. They can still remember their most recent life, and only that life, because the barrier between them, and the life before was never broken, and a new barrier was never created with a body stolen from another thread.

 

I'm not asking you to agree, but I can't bring myself to think there's anything normal about the souls of the forsaken in new bodies. It's a deviation from the pattern that shows the DO is truly able to touch the world. It's the same reason that I will never unless the books prove otherwise, agree with the "body swap" theory.

[mossman87]

I'll agree to disagree. I think that natural placement, and psychological development are what create the barrier. It's part of being created in the womb. It's a part of the thread that is made to maintain sanity, as development with the memory of ages and ages of lives just wouldn't work.

 

a Soul, never placed in TaR, never given the "rest" between lives that most receive, and placed into another body shortly after it's moment of death never has the barrier created.

 

My main reason for this is Birgitte. She was ripped from TaR and never born, still has her memory's from other lives, but it's her body. Her mind can not cope with that much information so it's continually fading until this life is what will exist, but a part of this life for her is knowing there was something more so I doubt everything will ever completely fade.

 

The forsaken don't have this problem. the complete lack of barrier isn't there. They can still remember their most recent life, and only that life, because the barrier between them, and the life before was never broken, and a new barrier was never created with a body stolen from another thread.

 

I'm not asking you to agree, but I can't bring myself to think there's anything normal about the souls of the forsaken in new bodies. It's a deviation from the pattern that shows the DO is truly able to touch the world. It's the same reason that I will never unless the books prove otherwise, agree with the "body swap" theory.

 

Birgitte is the perfect example of what Ishamael went through though.

 

http://hem.passagen.se/kjnoren/jordan/rj-talk2.html

When Moghedien ripped out Birgitte from Tel'aran'rhiod she "short-circuited" the Pattern, by bringing in an adult "in the flesh" instead of letting Birgitte join Gaidal Cain the "normal" way. He said also that Gaidal Cain may not have any role to play in Tarmon Gai'don.

 

The normal way by the Pattern is to be "reborn" into a fetus (But do we even know that for a fact?) and do what the Pattern wants you to.

 

I agree we don't know all the details, but it just seems to me, the Creator wants you to live life through the Pattern and learn the lesson of it, while Shai'tan wants to destroy the Pattern and doesn't care about any lesson learned, so you have no barrier to past lives.

[Calderis]

But there is still a barrier. cleanly between the lives of the forsaken and their time spun out in the AoL, in one continuous life to the present.

[mossman87]

We know the Forsaken are not outside of the Pattern, there is nothing different between Graendal and Alviarin, for example, besides strength.

The Forsaken are not outside the Pattern, they are still threads controlled by the Pattern.

 

Once you understand that, you understand more deeply why Moridin is so tired of this whole thing.  It's incredibly hard to beat something when it controls almost everything you do.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/RobertJordan/?p=27

- It would be possible for a Darkfriend or Forsaken to be made ta’veren, but it seems unlikely.  Ta’veren are part of the Wheel’s self-correcting mechanism.  When the Pattern seems to be drifting too quickly, and especially if it is in the wrong direction, one or more ta’veren are created.  I can’t really see how making a Darkfriend or Forsaken ta’veren would help with correcting the drift of the Pattern.

 

This shows Forsaken can be used by the Pattern, they can still be controlled by it, only the Creator and the DO cannot be controlled by the Pattern.  and since we've seen the taint (True Power, DO) breaks down the walls between lives, this is why I believe the forsaken don't have that issue, the DO just doesn't care about any lesson to be learned.

 

http://home.casema.nl/e.f.delaat/Elffantasyfairsat.html

Kurafire: What happens to the soul of someone when he becomes a Gray Man? Is his thread removed from the Pattern, or are threads and souls different things altogether?

RJ: Err, they are... Oh, uhm, no, it is gone. It is gone. And it ceases to exist in any form that you could of as real.

Kurafire: So threads and souls are the same thing?

RJ:  Err, not the same thing, but they must coexist. The thread can be removed; you die in this world. You die and the soul remains to come again and begin another thread. The soul disappears from this Gray Man, it's gone. Think of the Dark One as having eaten it. It's a fiction, but a convenient fiction for the moment. The thread of the Gray Man remains until the Gray Man dies, physically.

Kurafire: And the rest of the Shadowspawn?

RJ: What? Do they have souls you mean?

Kurafire: Yeah, and how do their threads work?

RJ: The threads work in the way, in the same way that the thread of any living thing works. It is part of the Pattern. They are not outside of the Pattern. Neither are the Forsaken. But the Pattern in a thing that is open, that's change. It is not a matter of the lives being forced necessarily. It's wide, you have the Pattern, the Heroes that are bound to the Wheel, they're not always heroes in the way of someone who rides in galloping with a sword, or carries out daring rescues. The people, the Heroes who are bound to the Wheel, are the corrective mechanisms. Human behavior is throwing the Pattern out. It's throwing the balance off. And the Wheel spins out the proper correctives. Put everything back in the balance. So not even the Forsaken are apart from that, they're not outside. The only things that are outside are the Creator and the Dark One. Neither affected by the Pattern.

[Calderis]

That's my point though. the DO exists outside the pattern, and they would be dead if not for his intervention. The unnatural order of their return is a deviation not possible except by a hand outside the pattern.

 

Meh, we're in the wrong thread for this.

 

And neither of us is gonna change our minds.

[mossman87]

That's my point though. the DO exists outside the pattern, and they would be dead if not for his intervention. The unnatural order of their return is a deviation not possible except by a hand outside the pattern.

 

Meh, we're in the wrong thread for this.

 

And neither of us is gonna change our minds.

 

The DO is outside, but it's confirmed the Forsaken are not.  So obviously whatever power the DO holds it's not enough to make the Forsaken side step the Pattern fully to do his bidding, else the Forsaken would be outside the Pattern by now.  Remember Ishamael has had his thread spun around the Dragon's for a long time, yet still they haven't achieved victory.

[mossman87]

Also, this is going with the thought that the DO is there to balance the Creator, which goes with the other things I've been saying that parallels Manichaeism and Hinduism, and such, and with what RJ and BrS has said, assuming we aren't being lied to, but it's 1:30am and I'm way too out of it to find them to copypasta.

 

In the end, humanity is there to learn something the Creator wants them to, the Creator will not interfere.  Rand learns it at the end of TGS.  This thing has been going for many, many cycles and the Pattern always wins, because the Pattern controls everything.  The only things it cannot control are the Creator and the DO.  It's a genius idea to turn Rand against the Pattern by using the TP on him, the Power that actually isn't controlled by the Pattern, but even then the Pattern wins by making him realize power is a bad thing, while on Dragonmount.

 

The DO is always being trumped, and Ishamael is sick of it.

[Calderis]

I get all that, and I agree with you on most of it, But Ta'veren exist to correct the pattern when it's pushed to far off course.

 

The pattern allows rebirth under a set cycle and could care less as far as things are stable. The DO, being outside the power, and wanting to break the wheel, tries to push the course beyond what the Ta'veren are able to correct. Rand is working to fulfill his role as a corrective mechanism here, but the DO is determined to push things farther and farther of, and the death of his tools are just viewed as another opportunity.

 

In the normal course of rebirth, a body becomes available, and a thread is spun out into it. The forsaken were born under the same circumstances, and a barrier was placed between their lives as with everyone else. When they were killed the the dark one found their soul, and hollowed out a fitting body to his purposes, and placed this soul into a body fully grown. No development, no barrier.

 

The nature of this spiritual reanimation is so opposite to the patterns normal turn that assuming normal rules of rebirth apply is something I don't understand at all. For all intensive purposes according to the pattern these people should be dead, awaiting their next turn in TaR with all of their memories and the block between lives non-existent.

 

If the DO destroyed the barrier between lives, I believe it wouldn't be just the same personality with memories of the last life. They would truly be like Birgitte, with far more memories then they could handle, blurring together and fading, which would make them a very ineffective tool. The DO as was stated is the embodiment of destruction, so why such a clean clear cut line in destroying the barrier between two lives?

 

It's been shown that the reason Balefire can keep the DO from reviving the forsaken is the matter of time. I think that he has to catch them before they enter TaR. Once the soul has returned they are again bound to the pattern, and the barrier's are dissolved. If he can catch them in the time between death and the world of dreams though, he can simply end one life to transplant another without having to struggle with the complications of a mind overrun with extraneous memories.

 

They pick up where they left off, focused on the same goals, with the same motives, and a new face with which to hide unrecognized.

 

I'm done ranting, I've thought about this a lot, but considering how much it deals with the nature of rebirth I think if the conversation is going to continue, we should move to the metaphysics thread. I'm going to sleep, have work and school tomorrow, but I'll hit up that board if you wish to continue the discussion.

 

For now, thanks, it's been fun.

 

 

 

 

[DukeBob]

I finished the last chapter again and an idea is still floating around in my head. I received a few responses that I am responding to below. The post was:

Could it be that Rand burned himself out when he destroyed the CK? All we have in the book is "the power winked out, the tempest ended." He had just destroyed the largest sa'angreal while accessing it. Sounds like a great way to either kill yourself or at least burn yourself out.

 

(snip)

 

Granted this isn't a big deal as Rand can easily be found via Min; and Nynaeve can restore back his ability to channel, however now he can exclusively channel cleanse Saidin. No more fears of madness.

This would also serve as a great tool for Rand. Gentle all existing Ashamen to clear any former madness accrued; then heal.

 

And the responses:

Very much doubt he burned himself out. He would be dead rather quickly on top of Dragonmount without being able to channel his air pocket and warmth. But beyond that.. yah.. no.. the dragon needs to channel.

You don't think that Min would know immediately what had happened and take Nynaeve and co. to pick him up? You also have Elayne, Avienda and Alanna also bonded to him. Any one of them could port to him in a very short time. Since they bonded him (not the other way around) this bond would still be intact and allow them to identify his location and track him down.

It is also possible that Rand tied off the warm bubble before messing with the CK.

 

Part 2, of course the dragon needs to channel. It isn't difficult to restore the ability.

 

 

When cleansing the taint, the female sa'angreal and access key were both destroyed, but Nynaeve came out fine.  So it's unlikely Rand is burned out.

The difference was that the female access key was destroyed by the amount of power flowing through it. Nynaeve was using it as it was intended to be used. The male key was destroyed by directing all of its power against itself; definitely not as intended. Two completely different situations.

 

I am not saying that he is definitely burned out, however it would make sense based on Rand's reaction.