Prologue, Chap. 1-50, Epilogue

[richnewton82]

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[Bob T Dwarf]

That's the whole point.  Balefire DOES rewrite history.  It just doesn't also remove the memories of those who experienced the history that gets rewritten.

 

When the Darkhounds attack, Mat, and Rand both remember how badly burned Mat's hands and arms were.  Even though, after Rand balefired the Darkhounds, Mat is only very slightly burned because the remaining hole in that door is very small not the gaping thing it was before he balefired them.

[Naiowen]

I found this in TFOH page 167. From Moiraine's pov but maybe can be trusted?  Anyway this is a partial quote after Rand balefired the darkhounds that came after Mat.

 

"Hundreds of thousands of threads pulled from the Pattern, gone for days already past; whatever those people had done, no longer had been done, and neither had what others had done because of their actions.  The memories remained, but not the actions."

[Bob T Dwarf]

Thanks, Naiowen.

 

That's the deal with balefire.  What the dead guy does gets erased and so does everything anybody else did as a result of what the dead guy did.

[richnewton82]

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[richnewton82]

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[Naiowen]

In that same book when talking about balefire, Moiraine mentioned the amount of balefire used having an effect on how much is undone.  If Rand didn't use a huge blast of balefire on the darkhounds then they may have only been burned out to where they just were getting through the door and therefore Mat would have been at the door trying to keep them out.

[Nightstrike]

Thanks, Naiowen.

 

That's the deal with balefire.  What the dead guy does gets erased and so does everything anybody else did as a result of what the dead guy did.

Characters have proved that what they think they know isn't true. Happens again and again. Moiraine might have been wrong, or she might have meant the situation with the paradox and the causation of it.

 

What we actually DO know is that what others should have done differently is not the actual case. After the Balefire.

[Durinax]

In that same book when talking about balefire, Moiraine mentioned the amount of balefire used having an effect on how much is undone.  If Rand didn't use a huge blast of balefire on the darkhounds then they may have only been burned out to where they just were getting through the door and therefore Mat would have been at the door trying to keep them out.

I thought rand didnt use a huge amount of balefire because they where not through the door, so he used a weaker amount and burned them out to just before they slobbered on mats arm, allowing him to live, but moraine still had to get the poison from the saliva out of his blood.

 

Besides it is impossible to tell how far back Graendal didnt exist because rand used a HUGE amount of balefire

[richnewton82]

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[Bob T Dwarf]

From the BWB.  Page 43.

This weapon was used liberally for a year by both sides - until they discovered its hidden cost.  The searing energy of balefire did more than kill or destroy - it actually burned threads from the Pattern.  Anything destroyed this way actually ceased to exist before the moment of destruction, leaving only a memory of deeds no longer done and souls forever erased from the Pattern. Not only that; whatever had been done because of those vanished actions also had no longer been done.  The greater the power of the balefire, the further back in time its victim ceased to exist.  During the period of unrestricted use, entire cities were burned from the Pattern, and the world and its universe were threatened by the broken and loose threads.  Reality itself was in danger of unraveling.

 

That's exactly what Rand did, Naiowen.  He deliberately used the minimum amount of power he could to produce the balefire he killed them with.

 

Same thing with the Trollocs he took out after he killed Rahvin.

[mossman87]

Semirhage directly puts the collar on Rand.

Rand directly chokes Min.

Semirhage, indirectly by putting on the collar, has Rand choke Min.

 

Balefire burns Semi's thread, removing things she directly did.

 

Balefire does not also burn Rand and Min's thread, you don't go back in time, Rand directly choked Min, no matter if it was Semi forcing him to, he still did it.

 

I believe you would have had to balefire Rand to get the choke marks gone.

[richnewton82]

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[Naiowen]

That was my point, he didn't use a huge amount of balefire so Mat would be at the door still trying to keep them out.  Their threads were not completely burned out of the pattern, just a short period of time.

 

I think it would take more power than Rand has access to for him to burn Graendal's thread completely out of the pattern. She'd been alive for over 3,000 years.

[Nightstrike]

Not only that; whatever had been done because of those vanished actions also had no longer been done.

 

Must be one of those things the Aes Sedai used to be ignorant about. We know what actually happens.

[Bob T Dwarf]

NO, mossman and everybody else.

 

Jordan built us a cause and effect universe.  If you remove the cause you also remove the whole chain of effects.  That's what makes balefire so dangerous to use.

 

Once he balefires Semi, he removes everything she did subsequent to the time in the past when she actually died, and also everything that resulted from the things she did during that interval.

 

Rand never has the Domination Band placed around his neck.  He never chokes Min.  Min's neck is never bruised.

 

...  whatever had been done because of those vanished actions also had no longer been done.

[Nightstrike]

Balefire is dangerous just because of the paradoxes it causes.

[richnewton82]

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[Bob T Dwarf]

Not only that; whatever had been done because of those vanished actions also had no longer been done.

 

Must be one of those things the Aes Sedai used to be ignorant about. We know what actually happens.

 

Are you saying that you know more about balefire than the man who invented it?

 

He wrote that the actions of the dead and all actions resulting from the actions of the balefired no longer happen.  He wrote that in at least two different books.

 

Hold a seance.  Argue it with him.  I'm just the messenger.

[richnewton82]

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[Nightstrike]

Are you saying that you know more about balefire than the man who invented it?

No. Whatever make you say that?

 

Hold a seance.  Argue it with him.  I'm just the messenger.

We've seen BF used in the books he wrote. Read them.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Please explain Nynaeve and the boat then.

 

Nothing to explain.  Moggy balefired the boat in half.  From her perspective, one second Nynaeve is sitting in the boat, next second she's underwater and has been for a short time.

[richnewton82]

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[Bob T Dwarf]

 

Hold a seance.  Argue it with him.  I'm just the messenger.

We've seen BF used in the books he wrote. Read them.

 

I have.  I've quoted directly from them.  What part of " whatever had been done because of those vanished actions also had no longer been done." don't you understand?

[richnewton82]

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