Questions

[vasu619]

1. What was with the "ripples" in KoD, and why is it that nobody except Faile and Perrin I think experiences them? Yeah, maybe others did too, but nobody seems to think on or remember them.

 

2. Was Isam a wolfbrother-darkhound?

 

3. In WH, were the illusions of Torval and Rochaid (or it could've been Gedwyn, not sure) Fain's work or more ghosts? And what about the fog in ACOS when Rand goes to the rebel camp? Was that Fain or miasma?

[Mr Ares]

3. In WH, were the illusions of Torval and Rochaid (or it could've been Gedwyn, not sure) Fain's work or more ghosts? And what about the fog in ACOS when Rand goes to the rebel camp? Was that Fain or miasma?

The illusions were Fain. The fog was a Bubble of Evil.

[Luckers]

Ares answered the third, and heres the second.

 

2. Was Isam a wolfbrother-darkhound?

 

Dunno, never stated, but there definately seems to be some link between him, the wolves, and the Darkhounds (the Dark Prophecy, for instance).

 

1. What was with the "ripples" in KoD, and why is it that nobody except Faile and Perrin I think experiences them? Yeah, maybe others did too, but nobody seems to think on or remember them.

 

It's another effect of the Dark One's efforts to free himself, akin to the dead walking. Elaida states;

 

"...those ancient Foretellings...said the dead appearing was the first sign, a thinning of reality as the Dark One gathered himself."

 

[KoD-2-The Dark One's Touch] (quote thanks to Kathana)

 

[Faile] had just reached Therava's tent when everything in front of her eyes rippled. She rippled. It was not imagination. Meria's blue eyes widened as far as they could go; she could feel it too. Again everything rippled, including herself, harder than before. In shock Faile stood up straight and let go of her robe. A third time the world rippled, and as it passed through her she felt as if she might blow away in the breeze, or simply dissipate into mist.

 

Breathing hard she waited for the fourth ripple, the one that would destroy her and everything.

 

[KoD--Something... Strange--173]

 

Note the similarity between this and Elaida's use of the word thinness, which she says is occuring because the Dark One is gathering himself--my guess is this is him expressing real effort.

 

There is a whole bunch of this going on, and it has been since CoT. RJ stepped it up in KoD.

 

New Ghost Sightings

 

1. Rodel Interulde. KoD--Prologue; Embers Falling on Dry Grass. Unique in that Interulde sees seven or eight ghosts at one moment. The Seanchan ride through the ghosts without seeing them.

 

2. Beonin Marinye. KoD--The Dark One's Touch--Chapter 2. Beonin sees Turanine Murdagon. Unique because it's the first POV we've had of someone who recognises the ghosts for what they are.

 

Dead Towns

 

1. KoD--A Village in Shiota--Chapter 10. Mat and co. see an entire town including buildings from the past. The inhabitants, like the ghosts, seem to be completely unaware of the present. A peddler rides into town and when it melts he is sucked into the ground and killed. This is the first time the ghost phenomena had proven directly dangerous (events in So Harbor came about due to fear of the ghosts, not the ghosts themselves).

 

2. KoD--News for the Dragon--Chapter 18. Verin states that a few men moving cattle saw a fair sized town melt away a few miles north of Algarin's Manor, and in KoD--Vows--Chapter 19 Loial clarifies that she also informed them that the town was out of the past--though she apparently didn't know of the danger since Loial is dreaming about walking through the town before it melts.

 

New References to Ghosts and Explanations of their Presense

 

"Taim very likely will have to wait on the Last Battle, whatever he's about," Verin said suddenly, her knitting, a shapeless lump that might have been anything, sat in her lap. "It will come soon. According to everything I've read on the subject the signs are quite clear. Half the servants have recognized dead people in the halls, people they knew alive. It's happened often enough that they arn't frightened by it anymore. And a dozen men moving cattle to spring pasture watched a considerable sized town melt into mist just a few miles to the north."

 

[KoD--Vows--394]

 

The inference being these are signs of Tarmon Gai'don referred to in prophecy. Tuon agrees with this.

 

"This is a night for prayer" [Tuon] told him before going in with her maid. "Do you know nothing Toy? The dead walking are a sign that Tarmon Gai'don is near."

 

[KoD--A Village in Shiota--256].

 

As does Siuan.

 

Egwene had been able to discuss it with Siuan in Tel'aren'rhiod, so she knew these things were the sign of the approach of Tarmon Gai'don.

 

[KoD--Honey in the Tea--518]

 

Elaida agrees, and specifies it's cause. Kath already quoted that above.

 

The Ripples

 

Already touched upon.

 

Changing Architecture

 

We see this first in the Royal Palace in Andor when Elayne gets lost on her way back to her rooms--Chapter 15--A Different Skill--335-336. She thinks it's just her pregnancy but later Birgitte sets her straight.

 

"The palace is... changed." For a moment there was confusion in the bond. Birgitte grimaced. "It sounds mad, I know, but it's as if the whole thing had been built to a slightly different plan"...

 

..."I don't forget a path once I've followed it," she went on, "and some of these hallways aren't the same as they were. Some of the corridors have been... shifted. Others arn't there anymore, and there are some new."

 

[KoD--A Bronze Bear--366]

 

Through Egwene we see this has occured to the Tower too.

 

Impossible as it seemed the interior of the Tower had changed. People got lost trying to find rooms they had been to dozens of times.

 

[KoD--Honey in the Tea--518]

 

Tarna also references it.

 

[Tarna] climbed toward Elaida's apartments, although it meant using a seemingly endless series of staircases--twice those stairs were not located were she remembered them, but so long as she continued upward she would reach her destination.

 

[KoD--Attending Elaida--535]

 

Birgitte lays out the potential dangers of this phenomena.

 

"Not the Forsaken," Birgitte said once Aubrem was out of earshot. "But what caused it is only the first question. Will it happen again? If it does will the changes be benign? Or might you wake up to find yourself in a room without doors or windows? What happens if you are sleeping in a room that disapears? If a corridor can go so can rooms. And what if it's more than the palace? We need to find out if all the streets still lead where they did. What if next time part of the city wall isn't there?"

 

[KoD--A Bronze Bear--367]

 

The Wind

 

I don't know if this classifies since I'm not sure what the Dark One has to do with it, but in chapter one the normal opening 'wind' motif develops a certain new harshness, and later we see what might be the same wind his Perrin in Altara.

 

Born beneath the glow of the fat, sinking moon, at an altitude where men could not breath, born among the writhing currents heated by the fires inside the ragged peak, the wind was a zephyr in the begnning, yet it gained in strength as it rushed down the steep, rugged slope. Carrying ash and the stench of burning sulfur from the heights; the wind roared accross the sudden, snowy hills that reared from the plain surrounding the impossible height of Dragonmount, roared and tossed trees in the night.

 

[KoD--When Last Sounds--101]

 

And still it's gathering strength.

 

On the wind roared toward Tar Valon, gaining strength as it went, shrieking over military camps near the river.

 

[KoD--When Last Sounds--102]

 

Now, later we see another strange gale--in Altara when Perrin meets the Seanchan.

 

Suddenly the breeze was a gale howling in the opposite direction, pelting them with grit, blowing so hard that he had to cling to his saddle to keep from being knocked out of it. His coat seemed on the point of being ripped from his body. Where had the grit come from? The forest was carpeted inched deep with dead leaves. The tempest stand of burned sulfur too, sharp enough to burn Perrin's nose.

 

[KoD--A Deal--159]

 

So yeah, the same wind? I only bring it up because Tylee specifically connects it to the strange occurences. "Avert the Shadow. Where under the Light did that come from? I've heard tales of strange things happening."

 

The Bugs

Tylee cut off when the man who was coughing surged to his feet, his stool toppling with a clatter. Clutching his middle, the young man doubled over and vomited a dark stream which hit the floor and broke up into tiny black beetles that went scurrying in every direction....

 

...he bent over and spewed another black stream, longer, that broke into beetles darting accross the floor. The skin of his face began writhing, as if beetles were crawling on the outside of his skull...

 

...again and again the man vomited, sinking to his knees then falling over, twitching disjointedly as he spewed out more and more beetles in a steady stream. He seemed to somehow be getting... flatter. Deflating. His jerking ceased but black beetles continued to pour from his gaping mouth and spread accross the floor. At last--it seemed to have gone on for an hour, but could not have been more than a minute or two--at last the torrent of insects dwindled and died. What remained of the fellow was a pale flat thing inside his clothes, like a wineskin that had been emptied.

 

[KoD--A Manufactory--297]

 

 

And reference to it occuring another time.

 

"I heard a rumour," Faloun said hoarsely. Sweat beaded on his forehead. He smelled of fear. Not terror, but definitely fear. "From east of here. Only that was centipedes. Little black centipedes."

 

[KoD--A Manufactory--298]

 

Other Issues

 

Perhaps the weather and the food spoilage should be added to this list, but they were intentional efforts on behalf of the Dark One, whereas these seem to be side effect. Perhaps bubbles of evil too.

[vasu619]

Wow, thanks for all the quotes and references, but no offence meant, I'm pretty familiar with all the signs. I kinda feel bad that you went to all that effort for me. Thanks a lot though. The primary part of my question was why nobody else seems to think on the ripples.

 

Another question, if the Asha'man were illusions created by Fain, is that why Rand still doesn't believe that Taim is a bad guy?

 

What was with Egwene's dream of mat dicing with Ba'alzamon with blood streaming down his face? The FAQ says that this refers to his "wager" of sorts with Gaebril/Rahvin, but I don't buy it. Why would the dream show Ba'alzamon/Ishamael when his wager is with Rahvin?

 

 

[Luckers]

Wow, thanks for all the quotes and references, but no offence meant, I'm pretty familiar with all the signs. I kinda feel bad that you went to all that effort for me. Thanks a lot though. The primary part of my question was why nobody else seems to think on the ripples.

 

Oh no, don't. I compiled that for the revamp of the FAQ. Copy and paste job, through and through. I'm not THAT helpful. Lol.

 

As for the question--maybe its just that they don't want to. Things have fallen appart, the centre's loosing its hold, and mere anarchy is knocking on the door--wilful ignorance about what you can't change seems reasonable.

 

Another question, if the Asha'man were illusions created by Fain, is that why Rand still doesn't believe that Taim is a bad guy?

 

I don't nessasarily see what the connection would be. Why would Fain's actions shade Rand's thoughts on Taim one way or the other?

 

What was with Egwene's dream of mat dicing with Ba'alzamon with blood streaming down his face? The FAQ says that this refers to his "wager" of sorts with Gaebril/Rahvin, but I don't buy it. Why would the dream show Ba'alzamon/Ishamael when his wager is with Rahvin?

 

You are confusing two different dreams.

 

What did it mean that Mat was dicing with the Dark One, and why did he keep shouting "I am coming!" and why did she think in the dream that he was shouting at her?

 

The Dark One, meaning the Shadow in general, of which Rahvin is a representative.

 

...Mat throwing dice with blood streaming down his face, the wide brim of his hat pulled down low so she could not see his wound

 

Which does not say who he was dicing with. Most commonly this is taken to be reference to Mat loosing an eye in order to save the world, and the general run of thought is that this will occur whilst saving Moiraine from Finnland.

[vasu619]

I don't nessasarily see what the connection would be. Why would Fain's actions shade Rand's thoughts on Taim one way or the other?

 

 

Those illusions say something like "We shouldn't attack till we regroup, because if we fail, the M'Hael will kill us." (I can't remember the exact words)

Now if Rand thinks these were apparitions manufactured by Fain, he probably won't take what they said seriously. On the other hand, if they were normal ghosts, well...

 

 

 

One last question: Can Sammael be transmigrated or whatever it is when he's killed by Mashadar? Now I know Mashadar and Machin Shin are not the same, but the Ogier in TGH supposedly has nothing in him i.e no soul. If Mashadar kills in a similar way, there won't be any soul left for the DO to put in another body.

 

As it stands, can Sammael come back?

[pxnsolid]

One last question: Can Sammael be transmigrated or whatever it is when he's killed by Mashadar? Now I know Mashadar and Machin Shin are not the same, but the Ogier in TGH supposedly has nothing in him i.e no soul. If Mashadar kills in a similar way, there won't be any soul left for the DO to put in another body.

 

As it stands, can Sammael come back?

 

No, but not because he couldnt be. He was a bad Chosen, and tried to kill Rand while the standing rule was to not kill him, therefore wasnt transmitigated.

[vasu619]

Okay guys, thanks a lot.

[Mr Ares]

One last question: Can Sammael be transmigrated or whatever it is when he's killed by Mashadar?

It's unknown what, if anything, Mashadar does to souls, whether it just kills people or whether it also consumes them in the same way as Machin Shin. But, given it first arose after everyone was dead, and given its opposition to the Shadow, I'd say the chances of this being something Shai'tan could bring you back from are slim to none.

[Thorn]

Found this thread while searching for an answer on the "ripples" in Knife of Dreams.

 

I'm not really happy with the explanations I've read so far. Going by the timeline, there are two sets of ripples, approximately a day's ride (forty miles?) apart, and about five days apart.

 

Could be two different "bubbles of evil," but they seem like more to me -- more attention is given to them, they mirror each other, and they aren't directly explained. My first thought was that the ripples were the last three seals breaking, but I'm not sure where Rand left them last, and I don't think it was near Malden.

 

Instead of two separate bubbles of evil, could both instances be the same three "ripples," travelling slowly across the map (at about eight miles per day)? 

[Red2111]

bubba and i are having an arguement ya'll can solve.

 

i say the "wolf dream" and the world of dreams are the same thing.  in other words, when Perrin has his "Wolf Dream"  he's actually stepping into tel'alenrod(sp) which is the world of dreams.

 

bubba says they are different places, but very similar.

 

i believe i'm right because of the similarites between the two. 

 

- asfar as how one travels and finds things in both,

- both you can enter into fully and that is very dangerous.  when saving Faile in DR, hopper tells Perrin he's in the dream fully and it's dangerous and you can be killed.

- in both images and places "flicker" depending on how fixed they are in the waking world

- if you get cut or harmed in both worlds, the same is done to your body in the waking world

- brigette was in both, while hunting Slayer, Brigette approaches perrin at the tower of genji(sp)

- and i believe that it was mentioned by either Verin or the Aiel Dream Walkers, that Wolfs used to be guides of a sort in the Dream World

 

 

please let me know if i'm right or wrong.  i looked through previous threads and couldn't find one that said so :)  much appreciated.

[OptimusPrime]

You're right Red2111, Perrins Wolfdream sends him to TAR, no doubt about it. Look at why Slayer gets shot as Isam in the Wolfdream and is still injured as Luc in the real world. Also, doesnt Hopper lead Perrin to a Forsaken meeting?

[Red2111]

exatly :) 

 

am i right about the "wolfs used to be guides" thing.  i can't remeber who said it, if it was Verin reading from the last Dreams notes, or one of the aiel dream walkers

[OptimusPrime]

That I dont know, sorry

[Luckers]

exatly :) 

 

am i right about the "wolfs used to be guides" thing.  i can't remeber who said it, if it was Verin reading from the last Dreams notes, or one of the aiel dream walkers

 

Yes, you are. It's stated by Moiraine in tDR after they encounter the mad wolfbrother.

[Red2111]

thanks optimus prime :)  i'll use that slayer getting hurt in my case of comparisions XD

 

thanks luckers :)   i remembered reading just, just couldn't place it

 

maybe now he'll see i'm right  *shakes head*

 

ya'lls help is very much appreciated