Tanks at the Last Battle? (Minor Spoilers)

[mb]

Even if those do not change, the steam engine would be stronger than horses since some portion of it is metal.

Um ... irrelevant?

I think it could be relevant.  Taking down a metal thing would be slower than taking down taking down a horse.

 

it would violate AS Oath #2.  Said "tank" would be a weapon for "one man to kill another."

The weapon (or its parts) would have already existed before the process began; and it would not be the Aes Sedia that would do the actual making.

 

[Builder]

Didn't you read his post RAW? I too can remember that a child told Rand about the four steam engines.

[Achoo]

-Majsju-

 

When I say that horses are faster, I am talking about shorter distances, in a bit rougher terrain than a nice country road. Try chasing down a horse with a Porsche in a forest or in mountaineus terrain, and you will see what I mean.

 

In a heavily armed and armored vehicle, speed over short distances is not the objective. It would be much better to have something with endurance, like an engine. Horses would tire easily pulling a heavy cannon at high speeds. The Last Battle is to be widespread. It is likely that a lot of it will take place next to roads, plains or other relatively smooth surfaces.

 

The tanks at the Last Battle would not be like today's tanks, which run about shooting things. They would move to a strategic position, blast their target and move on elsewhere. One does not need to be very speedy for that sort of warfare.

[Builder]

Why would the tanks be like that? How did you come to that idea? Why shouldn't they be able to fire and move and the same time (that's just too cool)?

[Muad Cheade]

The steam engines that Rand would have are not very reliable. Also, I'm sure putting Aludra's dragons on them would make them slower. There's not going to be enough time for Mat to make tanks. I do think horse drawn cannon are going to play heavily in aMoL. Horse artillery played a big role in the 18th and 19th centuries. four horses would not get that tired pulling the dragons around. You must remember that knowledge of traveling is pretty widespread and also horse drawing carts and wagons have kept up to the Band's pace and they move faster than any other army. A tank is very unlikely. Even Rand's didn't even hink of it as being useful during war. His main thought wondering if merchants would think about using it and his answer was "no."

 

I don't think the dream Egwene had of Mat has ended. It's begun but it won't end for a long time. In his campaign in KoD, the Band of the Red Hand killed tens of thousands of Seanchan soldiers (they were mostly Taraboners but still). In the chapter "A Cup of Kaf," Karede learns  from Loune that Gurat (a general) lost four banners of horse and five banners of foot almost to the last man. That's 18,000 men! There were also the numerous raids and skirmishes they had and also the 10,000 they fought at the very end. And that was just with the new crossbows.

 

When the new crossbows, Aludra's slings and her dragons are more widespread, that's when the huge amount of carnage begins. Imagine a war when every army has them and uses them against each other. That's going to cost huge amounts of lives. Plus, you also have to remember that when Mat and Tuon go back to Seanchan (the continent), the Ever Victorius Army will have them on their side and the Seanchan rebels won't. It'll be like Egwene's dream where each rank of men simply get bowled over and are replaced. I think that's why Egwene was so shocked. It'll absolutely devastating.

[Builder]

I didn't completely get it. Does the Band only have the new crossbow? I thought the legion of the Dragon had them.

[The Doctor]

Even if they could come up with some crude tankish device, it would be so slow in maneuvering that they would just be better off saveing their resources and putting the canon on a cart.  And even if they could make them, how many could they make by the last battle? 2, maybe 3?  Even 3 high tech US Military tanks wouldn't count worth feces against the forsaken, who would certainly make any exceptionally effective weopon they came across a target.

[ShinyThingsGood]

They may not have "tanks" as we know them today, or even close, but the argument against using the steam engines to transport them doesn't hold weight in my mind.  Rand may not have seen them as an effective weapon of war, but between Mat and Rand, we all know who has the military mind. 

 

Also, the main point everyone seems to be making is manueverability.  Granted, a steam engine pulling a wagon with a dragon on it would be impossible to move through forested terrain...but how well do you think a horse-drawn cart would do? A man on horseback will do alright, but even then roads are the preferred method.  If you think about it, the dragons will be impossible to use effectively in rough terrain under any circumstances.  And the steam wagons are much faster and don't tire or lame like horses.

 

And with four engines already made (yes, hitched together, but only to pull 100 wagons) that's at least four they have already.  If Mat puts in an order soon enough, which he may not since as far as I know he isnt' even aware of them yet, and he and Rand throw enough gold around, they could easily raise than number to ten or a dozen before the LB.  Assuming that since four pulled 100 wagons, how many dragons could 1 pull?  Several, I would imagine.  So no, they will not be tanks as we may know them, even crudely, but transportation?  I don't presume to know RJ's mind, but I don't see any feasible reason it wouldn't work, and even be the most effective.  As far as Traveling being better, that may be true, but will the light side channelers be able to spare any for a mundane task such as that?  It's possible I suppose, but I for one rather doubt it.  I suppose the only thing we can do is RAFO.