Rand's eyes and LTT

[Hotspur]

Hey folks,

 

two points of interest.

 

Given the revelation of Moridin/Ish. as the "Third Man" with Rand and LTT, there is another potential explanation for Rand's recent eye problems... they are connected in some way... Moridin has the saa... could this be in some way linked to Rand's recently noticed eye problems in KoD?

 

Second, while this theory (http://www.wotmania.com/theorypostdbtheory.asp?ID=716&Category=Archetype) probably takes things waaay too far, it is interesting to note that LTT begins to make his first appearance after Rand's first trip in T'A'R, and that after his lengthy and violent excursion there in TFoH, and the rather revealing incident wherein Rahvin tried to turn him into LTT. It is perhaps possible, given that LTT is connected in some way to the Heroes, and that the Heroes, in turn, are connected to T'A'R, that there is at least some connection between LTT, Rand's trips into T'A'R, and his gradual loss of humanity? Obviously, as people have pointed out countless times before, there appears to be a connection between LTT and the taint as well, but I would suggest that perhaps the growing insanity that the Taint produces simply erodes the barriers that might ordinarily help prevent such overflow from past lives. That or something like the fact that the "evil" that the taint contains has a similar effect. The fact that Rand has LTT's memories as confirmed by the FS is enough to convince me that LTT is not merely a product of insanity.

I'm kind of intrigued by the somewhat loony theory above's mention of LTT as a candidate for Asmodean's murder. Doesn't really seem plausible, but it is thought provoking, mais non? Esp. since RJ has remarked that the identity of the killer has to do with *timing*, and a lot of balefire, which has a certain effect on time, was being thrown around recently. Asmo even notices some bf-produced damage shortly before his death.

[Skinwalker]

i was under the impression that Rand hurt his eyes looking at/into the fireball that semirhage threw at him in KoD. You know, where he lost his hand? Looking into any bright light, whether the sun, or an intense fire can damage your retinas, even if it was for just a moment.

 

not to mention head trauma that can occur from falling off a horse.

[wtfv]

i was under the impression that Rand hurt his eyes looking at/into the fireball that semirhage threw at him in KoD. You know' date=' where he lost his hand? Looking into any bright light, whether the sun, or an intense fire can damage your retinas, even if it was for just a moment.

 

not to mention head trauma that can occur from falling off a horse.[/quote']

 

I had the same feeling. To me he got his eyes injuried from the fireball, either by looking at it, or by the heat it emanated...

[Hotspur]

That is of course, the most likely explanation... but didn't Nyn try to heal him? Wouldn't that have resolved those issues?

[wtfv]

That is of course' date=' the most likely explanation... but didn't Nyn try to heal him? Wouldn't that have resolved those issues?[/quote']

 

If I'm not mistaken, she said she wouldn't heal him cause she knew little about eyes and that kind stuff, creating the risk of blinding him completely...

[Hotspur]

ahhhh.. you're right about that. Still, makes me wonder... there's been a lot of fire and explosions thrown around in the series, but it's never been remarked on before as having an effect on people's eyes... though most of them don't get such close examinations as to health.

[Zardi]

Yeah, but looking at fire doesn't automatically hurt your eyes. It takes a certain amount of brightness before that happens. That's why you can't look directly at a solar eclipse, if you want a real-world example. It is extremely bright and can blind you.

[Hotspur]

And, again, there's been alot of fires and explosions so far, even around Rand. Why now, is it suddenly remarked upon that his eyes have gotten all funky?

[Zardi]

Because, presumably, the fireball Semirhage used was brighter than usual...or wasn't a simple fireball at all. I don't own a copy of KoD so I can't look at the passage myself, but maybe someone else could quote it for us?

 

But actually, we have seen an instance of a bright light hurting someone's eyes before. It happened to Mat in EotW, when Rand unknowingly used all that lightening in Four Kings.

[joeybsmash]

i do own a copy of KoD. but i won't look at it to make this remark. but i remember that the there was a fireball----- then the chapter/section/paragraph ended. i believe that rands eyes have to do with a problem associated with the brightness/injury of the fireball. in book 12 semi will provide a cure for it.

[Zardi]

But is it an ordinary fireball? I can't remember how it is described.

[Dashiva]

Doesnt seem too different...

 

"Semirage flicked her hand, and a small ball of fire streaked toward him from her fingertips."

 

KoD ch. 27 A Plain Wooden Box pg.588

 

But i wonder if semi threw something else with.

[Guest Majsju]

The fireball Semirhage hurled at Rand exploded only decimeters from his eyes. I can't recall having seen anyone survive such close exposure so far in the series.

[Guest Winespring Brother]

I wondered if the fireball was a bit of a smkoe-screen. It was hardly an elaborate weapon, and she probably thought it would be blocked or something. Divert Rand's attention with a fireball so that he doesn't notice something else thrown with it.

[Guest Majsju]

Or simply take the fastest weave you can think of, hoping to distract Rand long enough for Semi and her gand to take action. With Moridin clearly stating that Rand is not to be killed, the logical thing to do would be to distract him, and kill all his followers. Since they were evenly matched in numbers (actually Semi had the upper hand), with the usual forsaken-attitude that "We're always superiour", she must have underestimated the people Rand brought with him.

 

I strongly doubt it was anything else than a simple fireball. It's just a few seconds between Semi being shocked at her disguise failing, to the fireball. Not enough time to come up with some plan for an extra sneaky weave "just in case". And it's not really RJ's style.

[Luckers]

I suspect it was not a smoke screen... as in, yes, what you say makes sense about its simplicity, but there is a reason for that simplicity you havn't concidered.

 

My suspicion is that Semirhage had a number of nasty, complicated and inverted weaves prepared in the same way Elayne prepared for fighting the Black Ajah. Her plan, it seems to me, was to lure Rand's party in close, and lay on them all a weave that would cause so much pain it would leave them incapable of anything, and by the time they recovered they would all be leashed. Only something went wrong. Deeply wrong.

 

Specifically, Cadsuane was present. She used her ter'angreal to break the woven webs that Semirhage had prepared... intending only to break her disguise she would have also broken the perpared weapons. Semirhage had no way to prepare for this... Cyndane shows in WH that the forsaken were'nt even aware ter'angreal that could do that existed, and she would have had no reason to tell her old enemy Semirhage.

 

So. Something that Semirhage thought was impossible happened, suddenly she was revealed and her plans were shot to hell. She reacted instinctively, trying to get rid of rand and distract the others--in light of that, simply throwing a fireball seems entirely likely.

[shaitan]

Hang on a minute though. looking at the sun or any bright light will always leave an aftervision or partial blindness. Though if a forsaken were to throw a forsakenfireball or an extremely high power flame, wouldnt rands eyes just suffer just as anyone else's would? :?:

[Hotspur]

and all this is very reasonable... but again, there've been a lot of bright flashes thrown around in this series. Why suddenly is it remarked upon that there is an effect like this? In all likelihood, yes, it probably is just the effect of the fireball. But it could also be something that had been present before the incident that Nyn only noticed upon making a closer examination as a result of the fireball attack. Just a thought. Also, presumably, Nyn has seen people suffering from that kind of thing before... she's been a healer and Healer for some time now.

[Luckers]

Its not like this is a fantasy effect of the Power... its a genuine medical symptom come from Rand starring right at a fireball exploding right in front of his eyes. Totally normal.

 

Ny lived as a healer in a pre-industrial age, with almost no encounters with anything resembling fireworks or the Power. The chances she's encountered retinal damage from over-exposure to light seems unlikely. And since becoming an Aes Sedai she's not been faced with healing that sort of damage before... her healings can be traced through the book, she hasn't been present at many flashy one power battles, or explosions aside from balefire ones, and she was never close, nor treating anyone close enough to the beam to suffer this sort of injury.

[Zardi]

but again, there've been a lot of bright flashes thrown around in this series. Why suddenly is it remarked upon that there is an effect like this?

Because not every flash of light is supposed hurt your eyes. Eyes are made to take in light, but they have limits. They're only flesh, afterall. This fireball hurt Rand's eyes because it was arm's length or less from him, and he was looking right at it. It's like Luckers said: it's a genuine medical condition, not something RJ made up for Randland.

 

And like I said before, this is not the first instance of a bright enough light hurting someone's eyes. It happened to Mat in Four Kings. I also don't think that this condition existed in Rand before the attack, because we had his point of view and he didn't mention anything.

 

You've seen flashes of light, surely...fireworks, on TV, at the theater, etc. Most likely, the only effect you got was purple spots in your vision for a few minutes. However, if you look directly at a solar eclipse, or if you (like Rand) have a fireball explode right in front of your face, you too will sustain eye damage. :P

[shaitan]

Lets just say that rands eyes were hurt by the forsakens fireball... :D