Tor's decision to split AMoL

[RobertAlexWillis]

Allow me to double post for the purposes of tacking on an addendum, hopefully for the sake of clarity.

 

People thinking that they know more about what what RJ wanted than his wife is stupid, but its the kind of stupidity I can live with.  What has angered me is the way in which the motives of Harriet McDougal have been impugned.  The idea that she would essentially throw over what her husband and collaborator of decades wanted, to make a few extra bucks, is insulting to me.  And that is the implication of the accusations being made here, whether such implications are directly stated or not.

 

If there are those who believe that she is making a well-intentioned error, I think you're silly, but I'm not angry at that idea.  I merely disagree.

 

But to those who seem to think she is deliberately pissing on her husband's legacy to turn a buck, shame on you.

[Vambram]

People thinking that they know more about what what RJ wanted than his wife is stupid, but its the kind of stupidity I can live with.  What has angered me is the way in which the motives of Harriet McDougal have been impugned.  The idea that she would essentially throw over what her husband and collaborator of decades wanted, to make a few extra bucks, is insulting to me.  And that is the implication of the accusations being made here, whether such implications are directly stated or not.

 

If there are those who believe that she is making a well-intentioned error, I think you're silly, but I'm not angry at that idea.  I merely disagree.

 

But to those who seem to think she is deliberately pissing on her husband's legacy to turn a buck, shame on you.

 

 

QFT.

I could not agree with you more, RAW. Well said.

[seasnake]

Thank-you RAW.  I've been going nuts trying to explain this last to so many people.  Some people seem to think they know better than Harriet, which is arrogant and silly.  Authors accuser her of ignoring her husbands wish for the purpose of making a buck (hint, she's rich already). 

 

Bottom line:  She's doing what she thinks is best for the series.  Deal with it, people.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

Agreed!

[Dmitri]

I've been on RAW's side on this topic all along.

 

People may have different views on splitting AMoL, but ending in insulting... that's simply disgusting.

 

 

[Jonn]

I think it's pretty hilarious how whenever someone posts and actual account of Robert Jordan saying something about what he wished for this last book SOME PEOPLE, go right back to their little argument involving Harriet, his wife.

 

How COWARDLY.

 

Straight up evidence of what the man wanted and then the hypocrites have to drag his wife into the argument when people like myself have again and again said that our feelings about Harriet have nothing to do with our opinion of what ROBERT JORDAN SAID HE WANTED. In public he said these things.

 

*shrug*

 

He said these things several times.

 

But instead of challenging the fact of what was actually said, the reality, we get this stupid defensive "HOW DARE YOU QUESTION HIS SWEET WIFE HARRIET!" nonsense.

 

What the heck are you on about? No one mentioned Harriet in a bad tone, ever. EVER. Your insinuation is ridiculous that we insinuate such a cowardly idea.

 

Harriet is an employee of Tor, an editor. As representative for RJ, she's more than that, true, but after working for a company for decades, how does one turn around and basically tell the boss what to do with his business? Would she fight for an idea, or simply do what it took to get her husband's work completed in whatever for she could? I don't know, but it would be totally unfair to pose that question to her in her position, because ultimately she doesn't make the same decisions Tom Dohrety makes. That's a fact. Whoever wants to represent it otherwise is having a laugh. She makes editing choices, but she also has to consider who she is making those decisions for and she picks her battles. That's the most honest assessment I can make, and that's based on logic rather than some self-righteous feigned outrage, that some people have as if they personally know any of these people well enough to make a real judgment of how they think about the situation.

 

The only thing we have to go on is what is documented, either through quotes and interviews, or the outright reality of the decisions that have been made.

 

I look at Tom Dohrety's decisions based on the principle that he's supposed to have the ultimate say in whether or not this book gets published through Tor.

 

The only recourse for Harriet, even if she did disagree strongly enough to not want to do it Tom's way, would be for her to turn her back on someone she has worked with for decades and shop the book to another publishing company.

 

The thing that sticks out with me is the many statements of how Harriet insisted that she was very happy that she got someone like Brandon Sanderson to finish the series because she knew she could not do it. She's not the writer to do it. That's not her role. Neither is it her role to make those decisions about how the book is marketed or ultimately published as an asset to the company. That's the boss' job.

 

If you want to talk about Harriet in a neutral light, then fine. She probably would rather not fight the decision that Tom Dohrety made.

 

Being RJ's wife, she would have to know that he planned to write a very long book. True to form though, we never heard a word from her about this regarding her opinion on the matter when RJ indicated this publicly. She kept her thoughts to herself and didn't interfere with what RJ wanted, publicly.

 

She was there when this whole thing started, and did she seem to care how long the series was? She edited The Shadow Rising. People are acting like she'd be the last person in the world to agree with the idea of writing a long book. That's simply not true.

 

To ask her to go to bat and fight with the company that employs her a year removed from losing her husband and collaborator, what an utterly retarded notion.

 

The fact that Tor's decisions have lead to even the idea of this is what infuriates me.

 

They don't even have the minerals to step up and make a statement that it was their decision in the offices of the publishing company. The blame they've trickled down to and let land on Brandon Sanderson and Harriet herself. At least it has for those who want to act like there isn't an exclusivity regarding the subject of these decisions.

 

Tor books ultimately decides how this ends. They make those decisions regarding publishing. Robert Jordan was under contract to give them a book and Harriet is obliging enough to follow through on that contract, in large part for the sake of her husband and his fans. She didn't have to do that. Consequently, Harriet is under contract to Tor. Brandons Sanderson is under contract to Tor. Who is drawing up these contracts? Tor.

 

Business decisions are made by the business heads. The employees either follow those decisions or quit. It's obvious that most people here have the opinion that people with more power should get the benefit of the doubt over the people with less power.

 

The only leverage Harriet has is to simply not allow her husband's work to be published by Tor. Basically, she's in the position of having to make an impossible choice. Deny the fans of having the ending that her husband wanted OR make a compromise and bank on Sanderson's skill and empathy to save the situation.

 

Again, she really didn't have to be put in such a position, but Tor making that release date prior to completion of the book created the situation.

 

But I am forced to point out that the only people suggesting we hold Harriet up in the line of fire are the ones who agree with RAW.

 

As soon as someone attack's Tor's decisions what does he do?

 

He holds Harriet's name up as a shield for Tor as if she's actually the one who runs Tor books. Like I said, cowardly.

 

Challenge the facts and stop with the sensationalism of hiding behind Robert Jordan's wife and widow.

 

You are in direct odds of what RJ has said again and again, and the best you can come up with is to say that if we blame Tor's front office for business decisions, we should blame Harriet?

 

That's a leap and you know it. It's a lie and it's cynical. No one suggests that but you. You should be ashamed of yourself.  >:(

[Ludmian]

Will you, please, find at least a couple of quotes from the time before CoT where RJ says something like "I promise you to finish the series in just two more books and no more?"

 

You've supplied the quotes yourself, Ludmian.  Just because he didn't use the words "I promise" doesn't change the fact that it was, indeed, his intention to complete the series in far fewer books than we already have.  Again, you are latching onto a slight difference in wording, and pretending that it is the one and only indicator of everything that Robert Jordan wanted.

 

All right, I get it. "Several more books" means "JUST TWO MORE BOOKS".

 

"Hopefully fewer than seven more books" means "JUST TWO MORE BOOKS".

 

"At least ten total books" (after book 7) can only mean "JUST TWO MORE BOOKS".

 

And last but not least, "at least three more books" can mean nothing else than "JUST TWO MORE BOOKS".

 

How can anyone possibly argue with that?

 

Quote

Well, you are usually much smarter than this, RAW. We have repeated statements from him refusing to make promises about number of books. Then we have a promise about number of books. The two are clearly different

 

The intent was always the same.  The wording was different because of external circumstances.  He was being pressed harder to finish, he was more desperate to finish (there were other things he wanted to write), and then he was dying.

 

The intent was not the same. Until AMoL he clearly avioded giving any definite estimate of the number of books it will take him to finish WoT. That he wanted to finish AMoL in one book because he was dying is another proven lie misrepresentation of the fact of yours. The true reasons have already been mentioned here. Or maybe you can provide a quote that proves what you are saying? And will you please explain why RJ hoped to write one 1500-page book significantly faster than 3 books 500-pages each?

 

And yes, of course he did not want to write anything else beside WoT until he started writing AMoL. Thirty-years' worth of ideas for new books simply came to him suddenly while he was writing the first sentence of AMoL (*cough* Shipwrecked/Infinity of Heaven *cough*)

 

It is the refusal to acknowledge that these other circumstances affected his wording, and that circumstances WHICH DO NOT NOW APPLY, AND WHICH WERE NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT HE IDEALLY MAY HAVE WANTED, were behind the idea onto which you are latching AS IF IT IS THE ONE AND ONLY PARAMOUNT WISH HE HAD REGARDING HIS LIFE'S WORK, which I find objectionable.

 

I don't know about "the one and only paramount wish", but there can be no doubt that this wish was important enough for him that he spared no hyperbole to make it clear to everyone. And if it was important enough for him it's a good enough reason that it be important enough for his readers.

 

The sheer arrogance necessary to assume that you, or Ludmian, or I, or anyone else knows more than Harriet about what Jim Rigney's intentions were, and what his wishes would be, is stunning even to me, and I am on occasion a monument to arrogance.

 

And we know what she thinks RJ's wishes would be. Mr Ares might be right and Brandon failed to communicate his meaning clearly in this particular case, (hopefully, he'll clear it out in a letter to Roxinos and Roxinos will post the letter here), but what he actually said in his blog can have only one interpretation: If RJ were given a chance to publish AMoL as one book he would have done that. To say that Brandon meant "If RJ were given a chance to publish AMoL as one book, he would have split it anyway" is absurd. But after all, you think that "hopefully, fewer than seven more books" actually means "just two more books", so I shouldn't be surprised.

 

I've been on RAW's side on this topic all along.

 

So you also think that "at least three more books" means "just two more books" and that if RJ were given a chance to fulfill his promise and publish AMoL as one book he would have refused to do that? :o

 

People may have different views on splitting AMoL, but ending in insulting... that's simply disgusting.

 

I guess you mean words like "pathetic", "narrow-minded" and "self-centered" used by RAW. Am I right?

 

Jonn, it's an excellent post. Everything is summed up very well. No one here is blaming Harriet. That by questioning Tor's decisions we are somehow insulting Harriet is another lie that Tor's voluntary advocates here use. One of many lies.

[Roxinos]

If I were a mod, I'd declare this argument dead.

 

No one mentioned Harriet in a bad tone, ever. EVER.

 

Tom and Harriet made a decision. When you implicate Tor in shady, greedy dealings, then you implicate Tom and Harriet.

[Ludmian]

Roxinos, has Brandon replied to you?

[Roxinos]

*sigh* Not yet, unfortunately. On the note before the submission form, it says that it make take Brandon a rather long time to respond considering his writing obligations. Believe me, when he does, I'll post his response here.

[water_seeker]

Wow..Jonn..

 

I read a post once where you were crying that big bad RAW was being demeaning and what not, and here you are doing the same thing.  

 

Cowardly huh?  To point out that his wife might actually know more about RJ than we do?  

 

Hypocritical to "drag his wife into the argument?"  And then you start talking about Harriet based on NOTHING BUT YOUR OWN ASSUMPTION.  

 

The only thing we have to go on is what is documented, either through quotes and interviews, or the outright reality of the decisions that have been made.

 

Documented eh?

 

I look at Tom Dohrety's decisions based on the principle...

 

When you say "I look at [something in this light]..." you are speculating.  You could be right, but still speculation.

 

She probably would rather not fight the decision that Tom Dohrety made.

 

Where's the documentation?

 

The only leverage Harriet has is to simply not allow her husband's work to be published by Tor. Basically, she's in the position of having to make an impossible choice. Deny the fans of having the ending that her husband wanted OR make a compromise and bank on Sanderson's skill and empathy to save the situation.

 

This is based on 2 things:  1)Your assumption about Harriet, and 2)Your assumption that because she is the editor that she works for Tor.  IDK if you've ever written anything.  I did, with a friend, we had the help of professional editors and guess what...they didn't work for a publisher.  My dad has a book in publisher's hands right now and they do not provide editing.  Maybe she does work for Tor, maybe not...TBH that's not the point.  You paint her as this helpless victim but you have none of this proof that you talk so much about.

 

At least the people who brought up what Harriet said have something to back up that she said it...that is unless BS lied outright to us.  Which he didn't...

 

Harriet McDougal said on the process behind A Memory of Light: “The scope and size of the novel was such that it could not be contained in a single volume

 

Furthermore, no one said anything about anyone mentioning Harriet in a bad tone.  The whole point here was "YOU say this, but Harriet says something else..."  It had nothing to do with "how dare you say something about Harriet."

 

 

 

Edit: That last line was over the line.

[Dmitri]

The intent was not the same. Until AMoL he clearly avioded giving any definite estimate of the number of books it will take him to finish WoT. That he wanted to finish AMoL in one book because he was dying is another proven lie misrepresentation of the fact of yours. The true reasons have already been mentioned here. Or maybe you can provide a quote that proves what you are saying? And will you please explain why RJ hoped to write one 1500-page book significantly faster than 3 books 500-pages each?

 

Care to tell us who exactly proved it?

 

I've been on RAW's side on this topic all along.

 

So you also think that "at least three more books" means "just two more books" and that if RJ were given a chance to fulfill his promise and publish AMoL as one book he would have refused to do that? :o

 

I also think that, being able to write AMoL himself as he saw it, RJ would face the same situation - fighting with Tor for publishing a 1,500-2,000 page book. And you know, in this case I would still place a bet on Tor. RJ was sensible enough not to be obsessed with "one volume book".

I'm sure we'd still have AMoL printed in several volumes.

 

People may have different views on splitting AMoL, but ending in insulting... that's simply disgusting.

 

I guess you mean words like "pathetic", "narrow-minded" and "self-centered" used by RAW. Am I right?

 

I see that no matter who used them, those words describe your style pretty well. But no offence meant, you have time to change it.  :D

 

Jonn, it's an excellent post. Everything is summed up very well. No one here is blaming Harriet. That by questioning Tor's decisions we are somehow insulting Harriet is another lie that Tor's voluntary advocates here use. One of many lies.

 

So, we are all liars and Tor's advocates now? How sweet of you...

Maybe, you have some more bad words ready for those who contradict your view of things?  ;)

 

[Ludmian]

The intent was not the same. Until AMoL he clearly avioded giving any definite estimate of the number of books it will take him to finish WoT. That he wanted to finish AMoL in one book because he was dying is another proven lie misrepresentation of the fact of yours. The true reasons have already been mentioned here. Or maybe you can provide a quote that proves what you are saying? And will you please explain why RJ hoped to write one 1500-page book significantly faster than 3 books 500-pages each?

 

Care to tell us who exactly proved it?

 

Actually, it was me. :-[

 

You can take it in the context of the fact that the man knew he was dying, and really wanted to finish it himself, so he knew he only had time for maybe one more book.

 

If you look at his "one book left" statements and only those statements, then yes, it seems obvious.  If you consider the complexity of reality, then its not so simple.  In other places and times he has said things like "It will take as as long as it takes" and "I don't really know how many more books".  He changed his tune when he knew he was dying.

 

You are either mistaken or deliberately misrepresent "the context of the fact" (I don't know which is true though the fact that people who defend Tor's decision base a lot of their arguments on statements that are either obviously false or cannot be supported by reliable sources is speaking for itself). RJ definitely said that the series is going to end with book 12 before before BEFORE he was diagnosed with Amyloidosis. The reason for that was that he didn't see any breaking points in the remaining part of the story. And why do you think that he hoped to write a 1500-page book quicker than 3 books 500 pages each?

 

The reason for that was that he didn't see any breaking points in the remaining part of the story.

 

That's a pretty big leap. Prove he thought that.

 

The reason for that was that he didn't see any breaking points in the remaining part of the story.

 

That's a pretty big leap. Prove he thought that.

 

Yet another report comes in from Kevin Dean, one of Dragonmount’s staff members who attended the event...

 

 

RJ then went on to say that during the signing, he would be asked a few questions, as he always is. The second person in line, he said, would ask “When is the next book coming out”. He gave us a gurantee that we could “take to the bank” that it would be on shelves shortly after he finished writing it. And the fourth person would inveriably ask, “How many more books in the series” which he explained the same way as other signing, about needing a “dolly” to carry the thing out. But unlike other accounts, he said at this point, it is not possible for him to write two more coherent books. He said he might get one coherent book, and one incoherent, or two semi-coherent, so tWoT would be finished by book 12. He then mentioned the two planned prequels, and said they would be written. After a brief pause, he said “… I would not write in the Wheel of Time universe again unless I had a GREAT idea. I may have had one.” He went on to say that he has an idea that MIGHT end up being two or maybe three “outrigger” novels, not part of the main sequence, and not prequels per se, but following other characters, at another time. He said this is not definite, and that he had to “poke around at the idea” before he decided. He doesn’t want to “write anything just to write it”.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/News/?p=234

 

So that's as simple as that. He wanted AMoL to be the last book in the series however long the book might be because he didn't see how he could break the remaining story into several parts. At the same time he was planning the prequels, the outrigger novels, The Infinity of Heaven and what not. He did not decide to finish the series with AMoL because he "had time only for one more book".

 

And just in case anybody here claims that RJ knew about his diagnosis during his October-November 2005 KoD book tour but wasn't telling us:

 

Known to millions of readers as Robert Jordan, the best-selling author of “The Wheel of Time” fantasy series continues to cross swords with the rare blood disease amyloidosis, a progressive disorder he was first diagnosed with in December 2005 at the Medical University of South Carolina.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/RobertJordan/?p=91&cp=1

 

I've been on RAW's side on this topic all along.

 

So you also think that "at least three more books" means "just two more books" and that if RJ were given a chance to fulfill his promise and publish AMoL as one book he would have refused to do that? :o

 

I also think that, being able to write AMoL himself as he saw it, RJ would face the same situation - fighting with Tor for publishing a 1,500-2,000 page book. And you know, in this case I would still place a bet on Tor. RJ was sensible enough not to be obsessed with "one volume book".

 

His wife and friend seem to disagree with you.

 

 

I'm sure we'd still have AMoL printed in several volumes.

 

The people who defend Tor's decisions should understand that there is no more A Memory of Light. Period. Not after they decided to publish the three volumes under different titles a year apart from each other and make each book as self-contained as possible.

 

People may have different views on splitting AMoL, but ending in insulting... that's simply disgusting.

 

I guess you mean words like "pathetic", "narrow-minded" and "self-centered" used by RAW. Am I right?

 

I see that no matter who used them, those words describe your style pretty well. But no offence meant, you have time to change it.  :D

 

What is it that you find in my posts narrow-minded and self-centred? My insistense that RJ's final book should be published as close to his wishes as possible?

 

Jonn, it's an excellent post. Everything is summed up very well. No one here is blaming Harriet. That by questioning Tor's decisions we are somehow insulting Harriet is another lie that Tor's voluntary advocates here use. One of many lies.

 

So, we are all liars and Tor's advocates now? How sweet of you...

Maybe, you have some more bad words ready for those who contradict your view of things?  ;)

 

 

Yes, you are Tor's advocates because you defend Tor's decisions. What's wrong about that? That's a simple statement of fact. As for liars... Most of the arguments used by Tor's advocates are either obviously erroneous or can be proven erroneous or represent their opinions that cannot be proven by facts. Not all of you lie deliberately, there are people who are simply misguided by all that erroneous information floating around. But I think now we can be sure that RobertAlexWillis is a deliberate liar who intentionally spreads misinformation among the less knowledgeable people here, who twists the meaning of quotes as he finds suitable, who insists on his lies even when they are proven to be lies and sticks to his false arguements in the hope that he can mislead people who have not read the previous discussion.

 

Furthermore, no one said anything about anyone mentioning Harriet in a bad tone.  The whole point here was "YOU say this, but Harriet says something else..."  It had nothing to do with "how dare you say something about Harriet."

 

I guess you mean the following quote by RAW:

 

People thinking that they know more about what what RJ wanted than his wife is stupid, but its the kind of stupidity I can live with.  What has angered me is the way in which the motives of Harriet McDougal have been impugned.  The idea that she would essentially throw over what her husband and collaborator of decades wanted, to make a few extra bucks, is insulting to me.  And that is the implication of the accusations being made here, whether such implications are directly stated or not.

 

If there are those who believe that she is making a well-intentioned error, I think you're silly, but I'm not angry at that idea.  I merely disagree.

 

But to those who seem to think she is deliberately pissing on her husband's legacy to turn a buck, shame on you.

 

He is accusing people of insulting Harriet whether they mention her or not. Of course it does not equal to "how dare you say something about Harriet."

 

And finally.

 

Some people seem to think they know better than

 

the person who spent the last 23 years of his life writing The Wheel of Time and ten more years before that planning the series

 

which is arrogant and silly.  

 

EDIT: Looking through my post I noticed an interesting thing. In one of the quotes I reposted RAW stated that before AMoL RJ did not give any definite estimate of how many more books there would be in the series (and that particular time, I must admit, RAW was absolutely right). Later he "changed his tune" and started saying that in the past RJ frequently said there would be "just two more books" in the series. Now he is insisting on this second statement ignoring the meaning of all the quotes I posted that disprove it (and ironically, support his previous statement), just because he thinks this second attitude is more to his advantage. Do we need any more proof that RobertAlexWillis is a deliberate liar?

[Roxinos]

Do we need any more proof that RobertAlexWillis is a deliberate liar?

 

First, I don't know which one of you started it, but stop it. I'm not a mod, but have some self-respect. Whenever one of you insults the other, all you're doing is making yourself look bad. It may not effect the strength of your argument one way or the other, but when you make yourself look like an ass, the board sees it and makes the entire discussion community a rather unpleasant place to be. Even if RAW won't, which I'm not saying he won't, be the bigger man and stop the insults now.

 

Second, RAW never "changed tunes." RJ has both said definitively a few times that it will be a certain length and then changed his mind and that he wasn't sure how long it was going to be. RAW's assessment on the impact the Creator's realization of his own mortality had on his planning is arguable, and that's what should be argued against here.

 

Third, stop stating everything you've presented as fact. Stop stating your interpretation of that single line as fact. It's the basics of persuasive essay writing; when you are arguing a point, acknowledge the other side. The same goes for RAW, not just you, Lud.

[Ludmian]

Do we need any more proof that RobertAlexWillis is a deliberate liar?

 

First, I don't know which one of you started it, but stop it. I'm not a mod, but have some self-respect. Whenever one of you insults the other, all you're doing is making yourself look bad. It may not effect the strength of your argument one way or the other, but when you make yourself look like an ass, the board sees it and makes the entire discussion community a rather unpleasant place to be. Even if RAW won't, which I'm not saying he won't, be the bigger man and stop the insults now.

 

Second, RAW never "changed tunes." RJ has both said definitively a few times that it will be a certain length and then changed his mind and that he wasn't sure how long it was going to be. RAW's assessment on the impact the Creator's realization of his own mortality had on his planning is arguable, and that's what should be argued against here.

 

 

Again, let's compare the quotes:

 

You can take it in the context of the fact that the man knew he was dying, and really wanted to finish it himself, so he knew he only had time for maybe one more book.

 

If you look at his "one book left" statements and only those statements, then yes, it seems obvious.  If you consider the complexity of reality, then its not so simple.  In other places and times he has said things like "It will take as as long as it takes" and "I don't really know how many more books".  He changed his tune when he knew he was dying.

 

The rest has jest been recycling, so I won't repeat my arguments, but I did want to address this:

 

Not "just two more books". "At least two more books". Or rather it was "At least three more books" until CoT was published. And with AMoL it was "Just one more book". Do you see the difference?

 

He has given a limitation estimate the number of books before.  It was, at various points, "just" six books, and "just" one or two more.  So, the "difference" you're pointing out is a construct of your own point of view.  Jordan did create artificial limits in the past, and then break them, more than once.  This time is no different.

 

So how do we reconsile these quotes, provided RAW told the truth in each of them. The only way is to agree that when asked about the number of books RJ could on his whim either express certainty that he would finish the series in "just one" or "just two more books" or to be rather vague about the length of the series and say something like "at least three books" (which can basically mean anything, from three books to infinity). That's what you are saying, Roxinos. It doesn't show RJ in a good light, but I already got used to the Tor's advocates' habit to making RJ look like a habitual liar or a very irresponsible man at best, while passionately accusing their opponents of their alleged lack of respect for Harriet. But let's assume that what you are saying is true. Then it wouldn't be that difficult to find both quotes where RJ promises to finish the series in "just one" or "just two" more books and quotes where he is being vague about the number of books in the series. I provided lots of quotes that show RJ did not put artificial limits on the number of books before AMoL. I think it shouldn't be difficult for either you or RAW to provide quotes that illustrate the opposite attitude.

 

Third, stop stating everything you've presented as fact. Stop stating your interpretation of that single line as fact. It's the basics of persuasive essay writing; when you are arguing a point, acknowledge the other side. The same goes for RAW, not just you, Lud.

 

I try to prove what I'm saying the best way one can do in a debate like this, by providing links to reliable sources. RAW does nothing of the kind. Instead he makes one ungrounded claim after another and insults his opponents. I don't insult anyone. To call a person who deliberately misrepresents facts on a regular basis a liar is not an insult. It's just a statement of the fact. Give me convincing proofs to RAW's questionable statements and I will take my words back. So far I haven't seen any proof from RAW, only more and more of ungrounded accusations and misrepresentations of the facts.

[Shard]

I don't know how anyone who has read the Wheel of Time as long as some of you have can't remember how old hat the whole "just a couple more books guys" is. I remember getting into Wheel of Time just as A Crown of Swords was being released to Hard back. Soon after that I got online to follow the series and know when the next book came out. I remember as each book came out Jordan would be interviewed or be in an Official online chat and he was constantly saying "just a few more". I remember this as a major thing since SO MANY fan pissed and moaned about the length of the series and 'Oh RJ is milking us!'. This was a major reason for many to stop reading the series as well. I do remember when aCoS came out that he said we were closer to the end then the begining.

 

It really doesn't matter if he said just 2 more or just 3 more, he intented to write it as it NEEDED to be written. Yes it seems he wanted to get it all done in one book as he has said that, however he WAS dying and I think that was a factor regardless of when he was diagnosed, though it seems it was just two months after KoD was released.

 

I know there was online arguements about RJ himself inflating the story more then it had to be. Now were arguing that TOR, Tom, Harriet and BS are doing the same thing?

[Roxinos]

It seems my hope lies with RAW in that he will take the higher road and walk away, as Lud seems to be unwilling.

[Luckers]

And on that note, I'm locking this thread.

 

I will add, since Robert didn't get to reply, that I agree with him. I'm locking it anyway.