New here with a couple of questions

[Jethro]

I just can't see Moiraine's marital status having any impact on Rand's success at Tarmon Gaidon

 

Thats not what I was implying in my post. I think Moiraine marrying Thom was a failed viewing, and Rand failing without Moiraine has nothing to do with it, since I cant see how that could be seen as a failed viewing. We have more reason to believe that Min had a viewing regarding Moiraine marrying Thom than we have to back up the "Rand dying without Moiraine" viewing being a failed one. As i said before, the thing that makes me think this is Moiraine saying she knows the face of the man she would marry. How does everyone explain her knowing that, when we know for definite that Moriaine hasnt seen the Finns at all at that point? How else could Moiraine know the face of teh man she would marry at that time, other than Min?

[Matrim DeLaneous]

Min most likely had the viewing when Moiraine arrived at the Inn with Thom and the others; and telling Moiraine was likely some private time before the company left.  I do not have proof that Min told Moiraine, but the first 3 points I brought up are a good indicator that Moiraine was told.

 

But this likely viewing is not referred to anywhere from anyone's POV.  There is no direct reference to any private meeting from any character's POV.  There is evidence to indicate there are other ways that Moiraine may have known about Thom (i.e. accepted rings test).  I think the two ref's from ACOS - 3 pgs apart, provide direct evidence to the other, more popular theory.  As such, it seems that this new theory may only fall in the indefensibly possible category.

[Jethro]

But we do have ample evidence that Moiraine had access to Mins viewings before we ever saw Min, we have evidence that Moiraine knew Thoms face at least vaguely enough for her to be able to say it outright, and we also have evidence that the only place Moiraine could possibly have got information about her future husband from is Min. How can all this be explained, if it isnt all connected to Moiraine marrying Thom? Where did Moiraine elarn the face of the man she would marry so early in the series?

[Matrim DeLaneous]

...and we also have evidence that the only place Moiraine could possibly have got information about her future husband from is Min...Where did Moiraine elarn the face of the man she would marry so early in the series?

 

The 3 rings terangreal(sp) in the Tower when she tested to become Accepted

 

 

[Swigaro]

It is eaqually possible that Moiraine's comment is simply meant to tell the Wonder Girls not to be so certain about what they think they know.  If I have to rely on a vision that might have happened (off camera, so to speak) and news of that vision being shared (off camera as well) I am much more comfortable assuming it never happened.  RJ is not big on that sort of surprise.  The clues are generally all there, whether we see them or not.

[Jethro]

...and we also have evidence that the only place Moiraine could possibly have got information about her future husband from is Min...Where did Moiraine elarn the face of the man she would marry so early in the series?

 

The 3 rings terangreal(sp) in the Tower when she tested to become Accepted

 

 

 

They don't tell the future.

 

It is eaqually possible that Moiraine's comment is simply meant to tell the Wonder Girls not to be so certain about what they think they know.  If I have to rely on a vision that might have happened (off camera, so to speak) and news of that vision being shared (off camera as well) I am much more comfortable assuming it never happened.  RJ is not big on that sort of surprise.  The clues are generally all there, whether we see them or not.

 

The clues are there, whether we see them or not. And on this I think I do see them.

 

The first is that Moiraine already knows Min when Min is introduced; because Moiraine already knows about Mins ability and also taking into account that Min trusts Moiraine, I would say Moiraine knows of at least some viewings that appear around herself. And since viewings of marriages/love lives are not at all uncommon, I think it seems entirely possible. Again, just because we didn't see it ourselves it doesnt mean it didnt happen.

 

The second is that comment about Moiraine knowing the face of the man she would marry better than the girls. It could very well be Aes Sedai word-twisting, taking into account the "I could wager" bit, but I doubt it.

 

The third is Moiraine's comment to Thom, saying outright "you will survive." How did she know Thom would survive without any hint of uncertainty? Because she knew she would marry Thom.

 

EDIT: Another clue. In EotW (Page 568 I believe) when travelling through the Ways, Moiraine mentions doubt that Thom was killed because of some viewing of Mins. Heres the link, as posted by mb (I think) in another thread.

 

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/2_nondark/2.5_lurv/2.5.3_thom-moir.html

[mb]

Min most likely had the viewing when Moiraine arrived at the Inn with Thom and the others; and telling Moiraine was likely some private time before the company left.  I do not have proof that Min told Moiraine, but the first 3 points I brought up are a good indicator that Moiraine was told.

 

But this likely viewing is not referred to anywhere from anyone's POV.  There is no direct reference to any private meeting from any character's POV.  There is evidence to indicate there are other ways that Moiraine may have known about Thom (i.e. accepted rings test).

 

It is not explicitly referred to, but Moiraine's comments during the three times seem to imply it.  Min's first viewings of Thom might be slightly connected.

Like another poster told, the Accepted test does not tell the future; it only tells the fears of the person walking through.  Only Dreamers I think would have prophetic results from them; and Moiraine is not a Dreamer.  If Moiraine's only knowledge about it was from them, it would be doubtful that Moiraine would be as confident as she was during those 3 times.

 

[MikeRiley]

Doesn't Min need both people together to see they will marry? In every case we hear of her marriage predictions the two people were together, at least. So I'd say if she had that prediction it was at the inn.

 

For Moraine to mention herself and marriage suggests she does know exactly who it will be and that it wasn't an offhand comment. Aes Sedai seldom marry and by this point she must have known her courting days were over with the Last Battle looming over them. It would have been too absurd not to be serious.

[Jethro]

No, when Min saw Rands three loves, she tells Elayne they both marry him or whatever and also some woman Min didnt know. She had never even met Aviendha when she saw her face around Rand.

[mb]

No, when Min saw Rands three loves, she tells Elayne they both marry him or whatever and also some woman Min didnt know. She had never even met Aviendha when she saw her face around Rand.

 

Actually, that viewing was that each 3 would become in love with Rand; not marry.  The marriage prediction was from Aviendha's trip through Rhuidean's 3 Rings.

 

[Jethro]

Really? Didnt Min see three womens faces around Rand?

[mb]

Really? Didnt Min see three womens faces around Rand?

 

Yes, the viewing was 3 women; one being Min herself.

Min's interpretation did not explicitly say marriage; the closest in the interpretation would be binding, yet that could have also been fulfilled when they bonded him.

 

[Jethro]

But if it was regarding him being bonded wouldnt Alannas face have been there as well? I always thought the viewing was of Rands three loves. Not specifically marriage, but the connection.

[mb]

But if it was regarding him being bonded wouldnt Alannas face have been there as well? I always thought the viewing was of Rands three loves. Not specifically marriage, but the connection.

 

Alanna does not seem to love Rand as much nor in the same way as Min/Elayne/Aviendha.

The viewing I think is both the 3 loving Rand and Rand being tied to them.

 

[Majsju]

But if it was regarding him being bonded wouldnt Alannas face have been there as well? I always thought the viewing was of Rands three loves. Not specifically marriage, but the connection.

 

Mins viewing speaks of love. Alanna might feel closeness and "ownership", but it is not love.

[Charlz Fel]

In The Great Hunt, when Elayne is introducing Egwene to Min, Elayne says that Min had told Elayne she would have to share her husband with two other women.  This suggests there may be a separate viewing of Elayne, which Min did not put together with her viewing of three women's faces around Rand.  Moreover, this viewing, if it exists, suggests that Elayne, at least, will marry Rand.  However, if Min did have such a viewing, it seems peculiar that she and Elayne would be so uncertain later about who Rand will choose, since they would know he would choose all three.

[Jethro]

But if it was regarding him being bonded wouldnt Alannas face have been there as well? I always thought the viewing was of Rands three loves. Not specifically marriage, but the connection.

 

Alanna does not seem to love Rand as much nor in the same way as Min/Elayne/Aviendha.

The viewing I think is both the 3 loving Rand and Rand being tied to them.

 

 

Thats exactly my point. If the viewing was regarding Rand being bonded, then Alannas face should have been there as well. It wasnt, so it looks like the viewing was about Rands loves. That was my point; someone said they thought Min could only see love auras if both people were present, and I provided the viewing of Rands three loves as the example to show they didnt need to be present because Min had never even met Aviendha when she had that viewing.

[mb]

Doesn't Min need both people together to see they will marry? In every case we hear of her marriage predictions the two people were together, at least.

 

In Great Hunt, Min told Elayne that Elayne would share her husband with 2 people; not sure if Min knew if she herself was one of them.  Each person was not present then, only Min & Elayne.