Rand, Ta'veren, and his influence on Mat and Perrin

[Revenant]

This is the first time I've posted on this forum, after casually browsing it from time to time, and I felt I wanted to share an idea or just a train of thought I had, to enjoy a good discussion about it.

 

Rand is Ta'veren, and many times over quoted as being possibly the strongest ta'veren to ever live. I was thinking on this as I just recently finished rereading the series thus far, and at the end of Knife of Dreams, this idea came to me. Prophecy says "The north shall he tie to the east, and the west shall be bound to the south," and as Rand figures, it means that the Seanchan must hold the south and west, and he needs a truce with them, so they will fight at the Last Battle. The pattern seems to bend to Rand, Mat, and Perrin, often giving them things they need... sometimes before even they know they need it.

 

Rand indeed is an incredibly powerfull Ta'veren, here are two ideas (one I believe to be true, or alteast interesting, and the other is...a bit more far fetched and just for fun.)

 

One, Rand has been pulling at Mat and Perrin for many books now, directing him to his goal of a truce with the Seanchan. While we know he needs them, as the swirling colors and viewings/etc say, think about what Mat and Perrin have been doing the last few books. Rand needs a truce....what better if he has access to Tuon? Mat just so happens to be prophesized to marry her, and events are set in motion, he marries her (I love the chapter with Furyk when she announces it, pure gold lol,) and opens an avenue for Rand in the future to secure his truce. Perrin meanwhile, has been set to rescue his wife Faile, and while it generally involves the Shaido for the most part, near the end he meets with Tylee and they rescue Faile. Somehow I feel this connection may also help Rand's situation, something about the last chapter of Knife of Dreams where Galgann (think that's his name) tells Suroth that he's promoted her. Makes me think RJ was building up to something or dropping clues (or adding another wild goose chase for no reason :P.) So, Rand's own pull as Ta'veren have been dictating their lives to a point, to help fufill this prophecy.

 

Second idea is a bit crazier and somewhat silly as I think more about it but it was fun fleeting idea. Mat and Perrin were purely spun out by the pattern with Rand as Ta'veren, to facilitate Rand's needs. As in, Rand's a strong Ta'veren, but he can't be everwhere at once, so the pattern gave him exentions to further serve the purpose of fighting the last battle. Pretty much they're just there cause Rand needed more backup :P

 

 

I apologize if this post is long, or if it's been broached before, but I thought it was an interesting idea and wanted to share.

[42Bonzo88]

    Very good thread. I like how the three need to be together for any chance of Tarmon Gaidin to go thier way.

 

    Interesting, Rand can Channel and is the strongest ever maybe excluding Lews Therin himself. Mat can't channel but has memories of battles and the luck of the dark one (and sometimes you need both to be a great general). Then Perrin has the ability to talk to wolves which is going to be needed at Tarmon Gaidon alot.

 

    Then you throw in the Ta'veren influence which brings the pieces together for the prophecies, wow what a story!

[mb]

The thing about north with east and south with west, an alternate prediction comes from the the Aelfinn answers::

"The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one."

Here is the link I got it from::

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/prophecies/aelfinn.html

The prophecy (the north shall he tie to the east, and the west shall be bound to the south) was sort of fulfilled without Mat and Perrin.  For the two to become one, I think at most just Mat (with his marriage to Tuon) would be needed.

 

Somewhere Elyas tells that wolves (and wolfbrothers) would be needed at the last battle, mainly for darkhounds.

 

Mat's knowledge of the Old Tongue might be one thing need (for giving the Heroes orders); with Seanchan alliance, the damane & suldam could possibly be directed by him (though probably indirectly).

 

Edit:: Here is one prophecy that ties Perrin and Mat:

"When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus are the final days known. When the fox marries the raven, and the trumpets of battle are blown."

Wolf King refers to Perrin; fox refers to Mat, raven refers to Tuon.

 

[Thor]

Yes this is correct (or so I think).

 

The fact that the prophecies of the dragon got bits and pieces of Perrin and Mat mixed in clearly shows this.

[Alderthal]

Hmm, I dunno. I don't think Rand's taverenness has much to do with Perrin and Mat. Sure, they're closely tied, but the very fact that they're mentioned in the prophecies does make them two seperate variables from Rand. Rather, a more proper way to look at it is, the Pattern twists all three to its whims.

 

Still, book 11 DID change my perspective. Previously, I thought they were solely about Rand and ending TG, but now that the other two are mentioned... Could it be this mythical 'dragon' is actually divided into the three boys?

 

And Rand cannot be directly responsible for ALL the tavaren twisting... Here's an example that particularly struck me was forkroot and its sequelae...

 

Elayne and Nynaeve got captured by Ronda Macura. They escaped, and Elaida birched her. Ronda decided to go to the Seanchean then and give them the forkroot recipe. Faile is captured. Perrin tries to save her, uses forkroot to save her.

 

Now, Faile is not needed for the final battle, that's pretty much been established by the fact that she isn't a tavaren, AND of course, by all the Faile haters out there ;).

 

Still, she was rescued, through the use of forkroot, which came from the Seanchean, who got it from Macura, who gave it because she hated Elaida, who birched her because Elayne and Nynaeve escaped... And that led to Perrin being the first one to get a truce with the Seanchean, and resulted in Tylee being elevated to the low blood, which in turn would smooth relations between Rand and the Seanchean if Perrin were around.

 

So why was forkroot introduced? For Rand's sake? or for Perrin's? Or maybe for both?

[OsaroLJ]

I think we're forgetting the true "dragon" of this story: the wheel. I'm beginning to believe that this story is about how the Wheel stops the Dark One, not Rand, Mat, or Perrin. Sure they are important to the storyline, but they seem to be a little more than Pawns. The Wheel is the genius here, and ta'averens are just extensions of that genius. This fact becomes clear in the latter books when the DO declares war on the Wheel and seemingly leaves Rand alone.

[Mr Ares]

Mat and Perrin were purely spun out by the pattern with Rand as Ta'veren.

No-one is spun out as ta'veren. You are spun out, and made ta'veren later, as needed by the Pattern.

 

Interesting, Rand can Channel and is the strongest ever maybe excluding Lews Therin himself.

LTT and Ishy/Moridin are the same strength as Rand.

 

Could it be this mythical 'dragon' is actually divided into the three boys?

No.

 

I think we're forgetting the true "dragon" of this story

No, we're not.

The Wheel is the genius here

Hardly. The Wheel is without sentience, just a fuzzy logic device. It goes forward blindly, trying to nudge things back on course. I wouldn't call that genius.

[Alderthal]

I think we're forgetting the true "dragon" of this story: the wheel. I'm beginning to believe that this story is about how the Wheel stops the Dark One, not Rand, Mat, or Perrin. Sure they are important to the storyline, but they seem to be a little more than Pawns. The Wheel is the genius here, and ta'averens are just extensions of that genius. This fact becomes clear in the latter books when the DO declares war on the Wheel and seemingly leaves Rand alone.

 

NOW WE KNOW HOW AMOL WILL END!

 

Fade to real life, a buncha nerds playing a DnD game. The DM is Seymour the Dragon!

 

NATURAL TWENTY! YOU'RE DEAD MORIDIN!

 

Moridin (or Joe the Barbarian): Dammit! YOU WIN AGAIN, DRAGON!