'Wheel of Time' and other fiction similarities

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Ridicule me for this one all you want, but on X Factor alot of the time Danni Minogue reminds me of Moiriane. She almost has the ageless look

Botox.

[Jethro]

Exactly. But put a stole on her and a blue stone dangling from a chain in her hair and you have Moiraine

[Majsju]

As long as she does not open her mouth...I really can not imagine Moiraine with an Oz accent ;D

[Jethro]

I almost laughed out loud at the thought of Moiraine with an Oz accent.

 

I can just imagine it now. An encounter between Moiraine and Padan Fain, Fain grabs a passing commoner and holds them in front of him, his tainted knife poised ready to cut their throat.

 

"He's got a knife!" come the cries of the civillians.

 

"Thats not a knife," Moiraine said, channeling Fire, "This is a knife."

 

Mick Dundee style

[sleddog116]

I almost laughed out loud at the thought of Moiraine with an Oz accent.

 

I can just imagine it now. An encounter between Moiraine and Padan Fain, Fain grabs a passing commoner and holds them in front of him, his tainted knife poised ready to cut their throat.

 

"He's got a knife!" come the cries of the civillians.

 

"Thats not a knife," Moiraine said, channeling Fire, "This is a knife."

 

Mick Dundee style

 

That was epic.  I can do nothing but stand in amazed silence at the brilliance of that post - then lol at the image of Moiraine as an Aussie.

[Jethro]

Thanks, Im here all week.  ;D

 

Another similarity lies between WoT and the Riftwar Saga by Raymond E Feist. A character, Thomas, is given some armor which has been infused with the powers of Ashen-Shugar, a god-like member of the Valheru race, and as Thomas wears the armor he begins to evolve into a mixture of Ashen-Shugar and himself. Mixed memories and such, it makes me think of Rand when he first has trouble seperating his own memories from Lews Therins.

[Majsju]

I almost laughed out loud at the thought of Moiraine with an Oz accent.

 

I can just imagine it now. An encounter between Moiraine and Padan Fain, Fain grabs a passing commoner and holds them in front of him, his tainted knife poised ready to cut their throat.

 

"He's got a knife!" come the cries of the civillians.

 

"Thats not a knife," Moiraine said, channeling Fire, "This is a knife."

 

Mick Dundee style

 

Sonofa...

 

Thanks a lot, now there is an imagery that will haunt me for days ;D

[bg.vince.earl@gmail.com]

If she doesn't, Rand fails.

 

All the evidence agrees with you. I'm just a pessimist.

 

But callandor, unlike the Ring, has no power in and of itself, nor is it an inherently evil thing in the same way the Ring is. I'm not sure it even counts as a surface similarity.

 

Certainly not in how the two items work. I'm referring more to the specific role they play in driving the story. Obviously the One Ring is pivotal to the plot of Lord of the Ring. Early in the WoT (following EotW), Callandor is a similar driving force. The comparison breaks down pretty quickly though, as I said. Frodo starts out with the Ring and only has to keep it from Sauron while Rand has to obtain Callandor before the Forsaken.

 

Another comparison is with King Arthur's Excalibur (sword in the stone).

The Sword in the Stone is usually taken to be a separate weapon to Excalibur.

 

Actually, the Sword in the Stone is usually identified as Excalibur, although the reverse is not always true. Thomas Malory names two swords as Excalibur: the Sword in the Stone and the sword obtained from "some watery tart" (the Lady of the Lake). Wikipedia has a nice summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur#cite_note-4.

[Mr Ares]

-He Who Must Not Be Named (Harry Potter)

You mean Voldemort?

 

2) The puppet of the evil lord (or, "False Prophet" in biblical terms) who is often a harbinger of the dark lord's evil.  This character is rarely just a drooling minion, but instead may hold great power of his/her own.  The character is often (though not always) destroyed by his/her own short-sightedness and lust for power.

Examples:

-Viserys Targaryn (A Song of Ice and Fire)

Viserys? Really? How did you come to that conclusion?

 

That was epic. I can do nothing but stand in amazed silence at the brilliance of that post - then lol at the image of Moiraine as an Aussie.

I'm just disappointed it wasn't Moiraine as Steve Irwin. Crikey!

 

I'm referring more to the specific role they play in driving the story.

You mean the one being the repository of Sauron's power, and thus its destruction being the key to victory, and Callandor being quite useful, but not in and of itself enough to win?

 

Another comparison is with King Arthur's Excalibur (sword in the stone).

The Sword in the Stone is usually taken to be a separate weapon to Excalibur.

Actually, the Sword in the Stone is usually identified as Excalibur, although the reverse is not always true. Thomas Malory names two swords as Excalibur: the Sword in the Stone and the sword obtained from "some watery tart" (the Lady of the Lake). Wikipedia has a nice summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur#cite_note-4.

Well, from the article you linked to: "Sometimes Excalibur and the Sword in the Stone (the proof of Arthur's lineage) are said to be the same weapon, but in most versions they are considered separate." Like I said, usually separate to Excalibur. That said, I think we should all be very disappointed that no peasant ever tells Rand that supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical ceremony involving swords, aquatic or not.

[sleddog116]

1) Yes, I do mean Voldemort.  I was trying to be whimsical.

 

2) You're right - Viserys doesn't fit that part to a T, but he does possess many of those qualities (particularly the rather messy end with which he meets) - it might have been more appropriate to put him into the same category as Wormtail.  I thought Viserys belonged in there somewhere, but I couldn't really define him as a separate archetype.  If anyone can, do so - but please give us other examples of characters in this type so we have some sort of comparison.

[bg.vince.earl@gmail.com]

You mean the one being the repository of Sauron's power, and thus its destruction being the key to victory, and Callandor being quite useful, but not in and of itself enough to win?

 

Ultimately, we find out that Callandor isn't the ultimate weapon RJ initially made it out to be. But until we get that knowledge later in the series, its possession (not destruction) is seen as fairly vital.

[Mr Ares]

1) Yes, I do mean Voldemort. I was trying to be whimsical.

I know, but I was thinking of Blackadder. "The Scottish Play? You mean Macbeth?"

 

2) You're right - Viserys doesn't fit that part to a T,

The big thing he's missing is a connection to the Dark Lord.

[Ilyena]

OK, so I've seen alot up here about modern day fantasy... what about all the many myths RJ drew upon to create his works?

For example:

Mat=Odin/Lokey in Norse Myth.

Perrin= Thor

Birgitte= Diana/Artemis (Roman/Greek)

besides which there are many relevant stories that seem to be super imposed across WoT...

Like a good example is the Princess Anastasia and Elayne:

Both have red-gold hair, both are spoilesqe princesses from royal families that aren't really that well liked by the populace, both have mother's who "fall" for a typically crazy man (Rasputan and Ravin (sp?)), both have clashing denizens in the populace (White guard, Red Guard seen in EoTW), both have been (or are) presumed dead, as well as their mothers...

That's all I can remember for now, but think about it!

[Mr Ares]

OK, so I've seen alot up here about modern day fantasy

Because that's what this thread is about. The myths RJ drew on are covered here: http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,37627.0.html

 

besides which there are many relevant stories that seem to be super imposed across WoT...

Like a good example is the Princess Anastasia and Elayne

Considering this thread is about fiction similarities, and Grand Duchess Anastasia is a real person (although her survival is fictitious), so it doesn't really belong.

[Ilyena]

All I meant was that it can be seen as something RJ has drawn upon to further the story... that's like saying the Japanese samurai played no part in RJ's writing of the books... I chose to include it in this particular thread because:

1) I did not take the time to search out other myth threads(I mean, there are hundreds+ of threads on these forums so common)

2) None of the stories anyone else is drawing to has much in common (that is written before RJ began and beyond the whole goodguy/badguy/idol dies/love with a girl thing) so I thought I would bring up a piece that I recently thought belongs with the series...

:)

[mcs0083]

Someone told me that Thom and Gandalf are similar.

Umm, no. I don't tsee that at all.

[Hybrid]

Someone told me that Thom and Gandalf are similar.

Umm, no. I don't tsee that at all.

Actually, there are similarities, IMO.

 

The stereotype of the wise, experienced guide in TEOTW is split up into two characters - Moiraine and Thom.  Both have extensive experience in the world and both have sage advice for the young Emond's Fielders.  They both act as leaders of the party, though Thom only does so in the absence of Moiraine.  In addition, Thom's "death" in Four Kings are similar to what happens to Gandalf in Moria.

[mcs0083]

I suppose.

But Thom isn't a BA wizard, even if Gandalf is gay.

Wait, Ian McKellan is gay.....damn there I go confusing myself again ;D

[Hybrid]

But Thom isn't a BA wizard

True.  Moiraine gets that part.

[mcs0083]

Yeah. It does seem kind of smart to make a duel role for the mentor person. Moiraine is the wise, calm, BA magic wielding half, and Thom is the cheerful, juggling, full of street-wise advice half.

[Jethro]

Please tell me you guys arent really saying Moiraine is Black Ajah

[mcs0083]

No, we're not. We were making the comparison of similarities between Gandalf and Thom, but came to the conclusion that Thom and Moiraine would be that comparison collectively.

[Hybrid]

Please tell me you guys arent really saying Moiraine is Black Ajah

BA = bad ass  ;)

[mcs0083]

Oh lol that went completely over my head.

[mb]

Some "Wheel of Time" and Narnia similarities::

-Time correlation between Telaranrhiod and Randland is not a constant; time correlation between Narnia and real world is not a constant.

-Susan's Horn & Horn of Valere, both bring help.

-The Silver Chair are kind similar to chair like terangreal, each has magic-like effects on people.

-Ogier kind of similar to centaurs; both are filled with knowledge and have kind of similar temperaments.