What Rand Should Have Done

[Luckers]

Ok, you know whats always irritated me, is that Elaida made two overt acts of war against Rand in having him kidnapped and attacking the Black Tower... and he did nothing out of fear of Aes Sedai knowing more. Idiot child. All he needed to do was be open minded and ask the Aes Sedai about conditions inside the tower, and he would have known. Here's what he should have done.

 

Firstly, on his side he had 600 or so Asha'man (at that time) and around 5500 Wise Ones who could channel... not all had massive strength or were trained, but they can be alleviated by linking--and yes, with the Aes Sedai he had sworn to him he had access to linking knowledge.

 

Now, there were only about 190 Aes Sedai in the White Tower at that stage... probably a little less, but lets be generous. In addition there was probably another hundred or so novices and Accepted which should be dealt with. Just in case. Then there were the Tower Guards, of which there were 30,000 and the Warders... maybe 200 of those.

 

Now, what i would have done is something along the lines of a surgical strike. Firstly, break your groups into links of 26--that way even if a group of the strongest Aes Sedai happen to be together and are fast enough to form a link... hell, even if some are packing hidden angreal, you can still suppress them.

 

Now, for the maths bound people 190 groups of 28 includes 5000 of the Wise Ones and 320 Asha'man leaving us with 500 Wise Ones and 280 Asha'man for other purposes... more on their uses later. Alternatively if not that many Wise Ones were involving themselves, you just assign circles 2 or 3 Aes Sedai to capture each... no real issue.

 

Now, in capturing the Aes Sedai, what you do is open a gateway into the rooms of captured Aes Sedai... one in each Ajah's area. Have a pre-written list of Aes Sedai present as supplied by captured/sworn Aes Sedai as well as their room locations and each circle being allocated one Aes Sedai to capture. At this stage have them be in inverted light (the one that makes you invisible) It ripples when you move, but thats no problem, because we are attacking at 4 in the morning.

 

Have them go stand outside their assigned Aes Sedai's room, and wait for a pre-arranged signal--a strong channeling of saidin would serve this purpose--and then simultaniously enter and shield the Aes Sedai. Six members of the circle then break away, and travel away to the Black Tower removing the Aes Sedai. Any warders they had go with them.What the groups do then is they come back out of the room and take up positions through the tower to answer any unforseen resistence.

 

Meanwhile, of the other channelers, a link of 72 is to travel to near where the angreal and sa'angreal are housed to answer anyone managing to get one of them. A smattering of two or three person links are to round up the Accepted and Novices using the same tactics as those sent against the Aes Sedai, and the others will be transporting occupation forces into the city itself as well as aiding them in kepping the Tower Guard from rising up. Well placed there should be very little struggle at all. Also, any forces within the tower itself should be made only of maidens or spears of the dragon.

 

Places that should be sweeped in the early minutes of the attack. The Library for the Brown Sisters that live there and sometimes stay up all night. Also, lets not forget Elaida and the Keeper, both of which live outside the Ajah Quarters... also there are some Aes Sedai who live in the city, if possible round them up, if not, deal with them later. They lose their threat value after the initial fighting dies down because their lives arn't physically in danger.

 

Now, what you can do is use the oath rod to force out the Black Ajah. Also, he could have approached the Rebels and used the giving back of Tar Valon and the innocent Aes Sedai to force them into an Alliance in which they arn't constantly trying to take over. It would have forced them to re-evaluated their views on the skills of non-Aes Sedai channelers such as the Wise Ones... altogether it would have solved a whole bunch of problems if done carefully. Rand is an idiot.

[Guest Majsju]

A reason why he stays away might be that he still believes there's a hidden group inside the Tower supporting him, lead by Alviarin. Smart guy, he distrusts all Aes Sedai, except for that one letter by Alviarin...

 

But seriously, having Rand take that kind of action against the White Tower would only result in Aes Sedai getting more convinced in their view of him as dangerous. What he really should have done, instead of sending Mat to the rebels, he should have gone there himself, explained that he's just as much against Elaida as they are, and offered to help in any way they thought good.

 

You have a similarity with Caemlyn, Elayne could not accept interference by Rand in securing the throne, because of the negative results that would have brought to her position. The same goes with Egwene, if Rand had done something without asking first, Egwene as Amyrlin would have been considered even more of a puppet than she was before the declaration of war, only this time she would have been considered a puppet of the Dragon. Which would have limited her ability to influence the Hall. And thus effectively removing one of the most supportive Aes Sedai from the position where she can use that support.

[Guest cwestervelt]

That is such a recipe for disaster that I don't even know where to begin.

 

1) You will have Aes Sedai killing Asha'man. So far, they have appear to have avoided that, even at Dumai's Wells. Once killing starts, it will escalate out of hand. Any Aes Sedai (rebel or Tower) that sees an Asha'man will feel threatened and attack on site, as would any Asha'man seeing an Aes Sedai. Any chance of truce between the Aes Sedai (rebel or Tower) and Asha'man would be finished. The need the Tower whole, not destroyed.

 

2) The rebel Aes Sedai would turn on Rand like he was a rabid dog. So would most of the remaining rulers, including the Borderlanders. They are already concerned about his actions, and that would be confirmation in their eyes that Rand is out of control and did in fact kill Morgase Trakand and Mattin Steppaneos.

 

3) The Aes Sedai that he has don't know what things are like in the Tower. They have been gone for too long to have a real idea anymore.

[rd2000]

Another big problem is even the Aes Sedai that swore fealty to Rand would have a big, big problem with helping him launch an attack against the WT. I just don't see it happening.

[mightisright]

That would be a disaster. Even though I wouldn't have minded seeing that senerio. Remember, East and North must be as one, West and South must be as one. Rand is trying to get people to cooperate, not scare everyone away - no matter how mistreated he has been. That said, I would not have advised going to Egwene with just a blanket offer of help. We already have learned that a power struggle (mostly a peaceful one) will go down as male and female channelers reconfigure the balance of power. However, I would sit down with Egwene and say, 'hey ain't the tower being divided a b****?, you help me prepare for Tarmon gaidon and I'll help you bring down Elida'. What does that mean? Lets work together on what we CAN agree on.

 

Just for the record though I liked your senerio. I have thought out several engagements where Rand wails on everyone like in LOC. Very likely - no. Very cool - yes.

[Leafburner]

Luckers, I normally agree with your opinion, but I have to disagree here. You're saying that the best thing for Rand to do while he is in the process of trying to bring all armies together is to start a fight with the White Tower?

 

Sorry. I can't buy that.

[Cybertrolloc]

Rand is trying to get people to cooperate' date=' not scare everyone away - no matter how mistreated he has been...[/quote']

Bit of dissonance between your screen name and the sentiment ;) I don't see this as too much of Rand's plan, remember how well things have gone in Tear and Carhien.

 

Luckers, some of it is Rand's priorities on what has to be done first say post LoC. Plenty of Forsaken running around still, plus Moiraine always advised being cautious in dealing with Aes Sedai and that they would eventually come around.

 

Given that, I don't think the Wise Ones are necessary at least pre-Cleansing, there aren't many in the Tower that knew about Traveling at the time, possibly only darkfriends. I agree with a dead of night hit involving Traveling and stealth, probably a handful of Ashamen could handle it. Though they do have anti-Shadow wards in the Tower, they might have at least something set up, even if it's on an Ajah or individual Aes Sedai basis, but I'd still go with the Tower being very easy to knock over before word of Traveling and the number of Ashamen and their capabilities has gotten around, and probably after.

[Luckers]

Au contrair i think that it would end fighting. Rand theoretically could take Tar Valon with absolutely no bloodshed. Aes Sedai arrogance and the ability to travel essentially make them an easy target to someone with as many channelers as Rand. The entire Tower could have been taken in less then five minutes... the entire city.

 

Then what you do is approach the Rebel Aes Sedai openly and straight away. Bring them the news of what happened--be calm, and fair, state specifically the reason you did it, and your exact and only intentions. Then ask them to be included in the trial process, and have a representative on the court that is judging Elaida. They won't have time to be angry, nor indeed reason... Aes Sedai, whatever else they are, and calm thinkers. They would see your position.

 

In time let Egwene talk you into letting the Aes Sedai accept the parole of the Tower Aes Sedai, as well as giving them back the Tower--done unarrogantly "It's yours, we acknowledge that freely."

 

The won't be allowed to get openly angry, but they will be aware that they got it back only because you let them--it'll open their eyes to the reality of Aes Sedai living.

 

I don't see how in any way it would be a disaster... im not proposing a war, im proposing a surgical strike, followed immediately by meeting and offering an alliance to those that remain. It would be over in less then a few hours, and despite what you think would likely result in a very strong alliance between Rand and Egwene's Aes Sedai.

 

The same goes with Egwene, if Rand had done something without asking first, Egwene as Amyrlin would have been considered even more of a puppet than she was before the declaration of war, only this time she would have been considered a puppet of the Dragon.

 

The question of Egwene IS a good one though. The obvious answer would be to wait until after they declared war on Elaida, but Rand would have no way of knowing that. I rather suspect, though, that Egwene would have gotten power using the situation with Rand as much as she did using Elaida.

 

Nevertheless this should never be put forward as a plan to help Egwene. It should be done as a police movement to bring a criminal to justice for the crimes she commited against Rand and his allies.

 

cwerstervelt.

 

1. How would Aes Sedai come to be killing Asha'men as a result of what i suggested. Every Aes Sedai in the Tower would be shielded and removed before there was even a chance for a counter-fight... even those that had a chance to be aware... even if they managed to form a circle of thirteen they would have been swamped. Did you mean the rebels? Any counterattack instinct would have been oposed before they even had it by the method i suggested above. Random Aes Sedai wouldn't even hear of it for weeks... months.

 

Moreover though... Aes Sedai arn't dangerous... The channcelers on Rand's side outnumber them, out-power them in angreal and sa'angreal, and at the very least equel them. There wouldn't be a fight.

 

2. I don't think so... if anything the way they reacted to learning of the forced bonding proved that. I'm suggesting a method of reaching out to them that is much the same. And the other rulers... at this stage its either Seanchan, Rand-sworn or so far out of touch with other people, as in the case of the borderlanders, that by the time they found out, there would be no need for them to get angry...the fair treatment of the Aes Sedai would oppose that, and moreover, they would know he is the Dragon... following him would be required, and they would know that, and deal with it, and as long as he made his reasons for the attack clear, and his intentions for captured Aes Sedai, i dont see them having political problems with it.

 

3. They know where people are sleeping... thats all they need to know.

 

rd2000

 

A good point... I think verin would get over her issues pretty damn fast. But more to the point, whilst the oath of fealty is somewhat loose, if Rand made clear to them that none of the Aes Sedai were to be harmed, they would not have any conflict... and would likely be required to aid him. Concider their feeling that the oath required them to oppose Cadsuane... if death of Aes Sedai is taken out of the equation, in a situation where Elaida has directly opposed Rand, they would be required ad his vassels to aid him.

 

mightisright.

 

The east to north, west to south prophecy would still hold just fine.

[Ord]

Rand should have balefired everyone...jk, jk...

I think if rand would have tried to interfer with the tower or the succession of the throne in Caemlyn it would have led everyone else to distrust of the people he left in charge.

[Guest Majsju]

Now, what Rand should have done is a more covert action. Ask the Aes Sedai with him to show him where the Amyrlin's study is, then gateway in, seize Elaida by the scruff of her neck, get out, and not tell anyone what happened. Then he could have let Avi and Min use Elaida as target practice :lol:

 

If he had managed to do that without anyone noticing, noone would know what happened to Elaida, it could not be tied to him, and the rebels would have gained a huge advantage without being compromised by Rand's interference.

 

And imagine how much fun Min and Avi would have had :twisted:

[Luckers]

That actually could have worked too... though it probably wouldn't have solved any problems but Elaida.

[Guest Majsju]

Well, removing Elaida would mean removing the #1 obstacle to a peaceful solution. The entire conflict would stand in a new light, when all of a sudden the White Tower stands without an Amyrlin, while the rebels have one. All Aes Sedai wants the conflict to be solved before it gets ugly, and what would the easiest way to solve it be? Invite the rebels back, set up Egwene as Amyrlin for all Aes Sedai, and as compensation give Elaida's Aes Sedai a slight advantage in the Hall to balance Egwene.

[Luckers]

The Tower would have raised their own new Amyrlin rather then face a girl who is, by all thoughts, a mindless puppet. Its why Egwene needed to be captured, she needed to earn the Aes Sedai's respect before Elaida could be removed or Elaida would have been replaced by someone else rather then allowing a child-puppet to sit the seat.

 

Best case scenario, the rebels go back to the Tower and Egwene ends up in exile or dead. This one strikes me as most likely since we've heard Egwene concider surrendering to Elaida if only it would result in the Tower being strong, she only doesn't do that because she knows what a mess Elaida will make. Worst case scenario the Tower split becomes permenant because the Tower Aes Sedai actually WANT to follow their Amyrlin. Then you get war and death and yeah...

[Guest Majsju]

I don't think so. By raising a new Amyrlin of their own, the White Tower would continue the conflict, and they would send a signal to the rebels that they know must be interpreted as the final stand, after that physical conflict is enevitable.

 

And I don't think the White Tower would have much of a problem accepting Egwene, even if they are still thinking she's just a figurehead. If they negotiated that they should get a majority in the Hall as compensation, they would see it as the balance tipping in their favour. They would gain the most from having a weak Amyrlin.

[Red States Rule!]

Why Luckers.... are you changing sides, perhaps?

 

What is this talk of "surgical strikes" and perhaps premeditational war? Are you advocating the killing of "innocent" Tar Valon citizens and Tower guard?

 

You giving up your side and joining mine?

 

So, what's the difference between Rand Al Thor and GWB then???? Hmmm?????

 

HA

[Luckers]

Red States, i have no problem with war, premeditated or otherwise. I have a problem with needless, unfounded war.

 

Maj, given the time it would take to reach the rebels at that time, i think they would merely raise a new Amyrlin, and offer her knowing that the rebels main complaint was with Elaida. They would know that the rebels would return on those grounds... and indeed they would. Perhaps it might be different if the rebels were right outside the gates... but then again, perhaps not.

[Guest Majsju]

Well, I assumed the rebels would be outside, since you brought up Elaida sending sisters to attack the BT as one of Rand's motives for taking action against Elaida. Rand doesn't learn about that until COT, when the rebels have been in place for some time already.

[Luckers]

Indeed. Well, my original theory was talking to CoS, but ok... in CoT things would be different, by then the Aes Sedai WOULD have been aware of what Elaida was, and in the event of her death may have turned to Egwene... likely would have. Indeed, i think this is part of the point of the Seanchan invasion. Now the aes Sedai are in position to all follow Egwene, all that needs be done is to have Elaida leashed, broken or killed and there ya go...

 

How cool will it be if Elaida gets leashed.

[Guest Majsju]

Meh, I'd still prefer to see Avi and Min get their hands on her *weg*

 

I think Elaida would beg for being given to the Seanchan after a few days :lol: