Meanwhile...

[RAND AL THOR]

And if she is serving the DO without him knowing it then she too will be destroyed once he wins.

 

Why?

 

I doubt the DO is going to leave any human alive after TG if he wins (with the possible exception of the Forsaken but I am inclined to believe that he would dismiss even them).

[Guest Toad]

What will the forsaken rule if all the humans are dead?

[RAND AL THOR]

What will the forsaken rule if all the humans are dead?

 

As I said, I doubt the DO would care about the Forsaken once TG is over. They are tools to him. It was stated once that the DO liked to set the Forsaken against each other so that the weakest would be wiped out. Doesn't seem like he cares much for them.

 

The realm where Rand/Hurin/Loial went in TGH is one where the Trollocs wars were won by the trollocs. Ishamael began those wars, presumably at the word of the DO. There was no civilization left.

The trollocs were not used to invade the humans-they were used to totally overhelm and wipe them out.

[Guest Toad]

So if everything gets wiped out, what will the dark one rule.  Or will he just be happy to destroy what the creator made?

[RAND AL THOR]

I would assume that is more or less his goal, as senseless as it seems. He is not a human tryrant, wanting power and control over the world. He wishes to escape from his prison. I believe his intent is to break the Wheel. That would damage the universe.

 

Again, look at that alternate world where they went in Book 2.

[D24g0n]

I remember there being a part in the early books that talks about Ishy being the only Forsaken to understand what the DO truly wants, and that it was the destruction of everything.  The DO destroys, and I see no reason for him to leave the Forsaken alive if he breaks free, I think he would be perfectly content to just chill in a void of nothingness for the rest of... forever.

[Raistlin]

This makes me wonder if Ishy is truly going to fallow through in the end. Or if understanding what the DO truly wants will change him in the end. He seems to know more of how the WoT works then everyone else in the books. That leads me to believe that he knows the DO will be resealed.

[RAND AL THOR]

Then he may as well committ suicide now! ;D

 

No- I think the end is not known to him. Early in the series he seems to know a lot but that part of him seems absent when he re-surfaces as Moridin. Perhaps him seeming 'wise' was acutally his madness?

 

In books 1-3 he talks as though he has been controlling dozens of weaves in the Pattern for many years but as Moridin, he is very different.

 

All the Forsaken want the DO to win. Though he will likely kill them all once he does. Typical evil overlord there.

[Guest Toad]

I remember there being a part in the early books that talks about Ishy being the only Forsaken to understand what the DO truly wants, and that it was the destruction of everything.  The DO destroys, and I see no reason for him to leave the Forsaken alive if he breaks free, I think he would be perfectly content to just chill in a void of nothingness for the rest of... forever.

 

Isn't that where he is in now?

[Bob T Dwarf]

Practical reality doesn't matter.

 

The DO is a being who admits no restraint.  So long as the universe and the Wheel exist, the DO is restrained to some extent.  THAT IS NOT ALLOWED!

[Mr Ares]

This makes me wonder if Ishy is truly going to fallow through in the end. Or if understanding what the DO truly wants will change him in the end. He seems to know more of how the WoT works then everyone else in the books. That leads me to believe that he knows the DO will be resealed.

He may think that Shai'tan will be resealed this time (how could he know, absent the hard information we have of the Fourth Age and other signs of a future?), but the operative phrase is this time. What about next time? Or the time after that? It's a war with only one possible ending - Shai'tan wins. All the Light can do is delay the inevitable. That is a big part of why Ish turned to the Shadow. He joined the side that will win.

 

As for Shai'tan, He's a control freak. He dislikes things going on outside his control. The Wheel is outside His control, and He doesn't like it. Hence wanting to "control" it. Whatever else he has planned, I think we can rule out free will for anyone else as any part of it.

 

What will the forsaken rule if all the humans are dead?

You answered your own question. The Chosen are human too.

[benr]

I've always felt that if the DO were able to break free, it would not much care what the humans of Randland did.  I think that is what the Forsaken are counting on - that they would be given free reign.  I know that is the antithesis of Mr. Ares "control freak" theory, but I think the DO's obsession is with breaking free...all actions are designed for that.  His imprisonment must feel like one of us being held hostage by a bunch of snails - if we broke free, we might step on a few snails, but we wouldn't bother to hunt down all of the snails.  Don't think that this is something we will get and answer to in AMoL, though - since we know there will be a 4th age and all.

[Avery]

Since we have the "Creator," I always thought the Dark One simply wanted to destroy everything. It's his purpose, his drive. Like someone said, he'll only be content floating in a vacuum. If the Creator creates something else, he'll be driven to destroy that too. I highly doubt he'll honor his agreements with the Forsaken. How they can actually count on that is beyond me.

[Mr Ares]

I highly doubt he'll honor his agreements with the Forsaken. How they can actually count on that is beyond me.

RJ addressed that:

Greed leads people to believe strange things, to excuse the most abhorrent behavior on their parts-just check out the nightly news for confirmation-and at the root, that is what motivates the Forsaken and, in truth, most Darkfriends. Greed for power, greed for immortality. That makes them believe, because they want to believe. So will he grant these things? Maybe. After all, he gains more willing followers, more eager followers, if he is seen to give rewards. But will he care whether he has any followers at all in a world where he is all-powerful?

 

benr, maybe you should have a look at what the author has said:

Week 9 Question: We've read in the Forsaken's POVs that channeling in the Pit of Doom would have some...unpleasant...effects. Is this related to the nature of the opposition of the One Power to the True Power or is it the Dark One consciously acting against the channeler? If so, why should the Dark One care?

 

Robert Jordan Answers:It is a matter of the Dark One consciously acting, though interactions between the One Power and him, the source of the True Power, can be unpredictable. The Dark One is not pleasant. He is also highly distrustful. He…dislikes…things that happen outside his control or not at his order. Call him the ur-control freak. Combine these two facts, and anyone channeling in the Pit of Doom without permission can expect swift punishment on the assumption that failure to ask permission means you intend to do something he won't like. It isn't that he believes anyone can harm him, just that he is in charge, and your failure to ask permission, your presumed intention to do something he wouldn't like, means that your faithfulness quotient has just suffered a severe downturn. Myself, I'd sell you short in a skinny minute.

[benr]

I highly doubt he'll honor his agreements with the Forsaken. How they can actually count on that is beyond me.

RJ addressed that:

Greed leads people to believe strange things, to excuse the most abhorrent behavior on their parts-just check out the nightly news for confirmation-and at the root, that is what motivates the Forsaken and, in truth, most Darkfriends. Greed for power, greed for immortality. That makes them believe, because they want to believe. So will he grant these things? Maybe. After all, he gains more willing followers, more eager followers, if he is seen to give rewards. But will he care whether he has any followers at all in a world where he is all-powerful?

 

benr, maybe you should have a look at what the author has said:

Week 9 Question: We've read in the Forsaken's POVs that channeling in the Pit of Doom would have some...unpleasant...effects. Is this related to the nature of the opposition of the One Power to the True Power or is it the Dark One consciously acting against the channeler? If so, why should the Dark One care?

 

Robert Jordan Answers:It is a matter of the Dark One consciously acting, though interactions between the One Power and him, the source of the True Power, can be unpredictable. The Dark One is not pleasant. He is also highly distrustful. He…dislikes…things that happen outside his control or not at his order. Call him the ur-control freak. Combine these two facts, and anyone channeling in the Pit of Doom without permission can expect swift punishment on the assumption that failure to ask permission means you intend to do something he won't like. It isn't that he believes anyone can harm him, just that he is in charge, and your failure to ask permission, your presumed intention to do something he wouldn't like, means that your faithfulness quotient has just suffered a severe downturn. Myself, I'd sell you short in a skinny minute.

 

Thanks - that indeed upholds your view of the DO as a control freak.  And since RJ has called him "he", I feel more comfortable using it.  That doesn't mean that, if he is broken free and destroys the wheel, that he won't lose interest in the folks of Randland quickly.  He will have other worlds to conquer...and, it is possible that breaking the wheel will actually destroy Randland (I, for one, don't believe that, but it is certainly possible).  So, viewing this quote from RJ in another light, were Rand to break the last seal and channel near the DO, it could have disastrous consequences.  Better to create a new seal.