Would you accept Rand returning to life?

[MatrixM]

Why do you consider him an asshole?

[RAND AL THOR]

rand's an asshole i hope he dies

 

I hope ur not talking about me ::) ??? ;D ;D ;D :o

[benr]

Rand is many things, but I've never considered him that.  No-one has had to put up with the stress that he has, and he tries to maintain a moral and fair approach to the world (not counting his personal life!), trying to avoid breaking the world while defeating the DO.  He has established the Academies, tried to protect those that he can, and eliminated those that pose the biggest threats to the people of Randland that we never see - the general populace.  Every major decision is judged first by defeating the DO, then by what causes the least amount of harm.  He has tried to force those that he cares about away from him, out of fear for their existence.  There are not many characters in literature that have been thru so much while staying true to the course.

[Safia al-Maaz]

I agree he can be kind of a butt, in the latest books especially, but with everything he has gone through at such a young age just after leaving his home... can you blame the poor guy?  I love him ^^

[RAND AL THOR]

I've never found Rand himself annoying. However, what I DO find annoying is the shift in focus away from Rand in the latter books.

[billoumm7]

ok fine... hes just a stupid asshole! he lets darkfriends ESCAPE! and he didnt kill fain when he had the chance!why the hell did he ever trust any of taim's damn Asha'man... and then the one person he can trust, logain, he doesnt!!!! then he runs off with min, and diesnt even tell any one where he's going! he's a comlete asshole!!!

[RAND AL THOR]

Rand has no proof that Logain is trustworthy.

 

He runs off with Min to accomplish something. He doesn't want anyone to know where he was so he doesn't tell anyone. Simple as that.

 

I agree that he should have been more wary of the Ashaman.

 

Which darkfriends do you mean?

[Safia al-Maaz]

I think Rand should trust Logain as well, but RAND is right, there is no proof that he can, and the fact that Logain doesn't trust Rand doesn't help either.  And his comments about Taim being the favourite would have made me want to knock him upside the head if I were Rand. 

 

And he is probably referring to Rand letting women darkfriends go... but otherwise he hangs them if he finds them...

[Lord Nik]

i think rand is a good guy.. he has alot to deal with and hes dealing with it the only way he knows he... becoming hard and strong enough to bind the nations and deafeat the DO

[Nightstrike]

Yeah, Rand is dealing with lots of stuff. And somehow he manages it all quite well (even though he is in the process of going insane from the taint). I think Rand is well above average as far as dealing with hardships goes. All that works as excuse for any "rude" behaviour, as far as I'm concerned.

[RAND AL THOR]

even though he is in the process of going insane from the taint)

 

But he is no longer going insane due to the taint. From the moment of cleansing, a person cannot become any more insane. Of course, he may be going insane due to Min/Avi/Elayne.

[Nightstrike]

Yeah, you're right. He's probably not getting any worse... Because of the taint, anyway. My mistake.

[Luckers]

I think Rand should trust Logain as well, but RAND is right, there is no proof that he can, and the fact that Logain doesn't trust Rand doesn't help either.  And his comments about Taim being the favourite would have made me want to knock him upside the head if I were Rand. 

 

Quite frankly, as a leader Rand should not trust Logain, but he should seek to make the man loyal. Dismissing him, taking umbrage, treating him like a challanger for 'leader of the pack' is stupid--not because it might not be true, but because it achieves nothing.

 

But then, testosterone is an evil drug. :)

[Bob T Dwarf]

Rand is faced with a bunch of bonfires.  He can't put them all out at once.  So, he has to prioritize.

 

Rightly or wrongly, Logain, like Taim, has been relegated to the pending file while he deals with those things he considers more important rightdamnow.

[RAND AL THOR]

Come to think on it, should WE trust Logain? I mean, i doubt any human in the entire world suspected Ingtar of being a DF. That was so shocking I has to read it at least 5 times to actually get it into my head. And Logain has a far more dirty background than Ingtar. Do we dare trust him? Especially with the 'glory' halos?

 

But I do, anyway.

[Safia al-Maaz]

I think Logain is a good guy, especially when you look at his Aes Sedai POVs.  Were you really that shocked about Ingtar?  I kinda saw it coming... not that I was happy about it, but I saw it coming...

 

But Luckers is right, Rand is dealing with Logain wrong.  The glory in his future probably does not refer to anything bad, considering we are all fairly certain the Light will triumph, and so any glory to be found would be aiding the prevailing side.

[RAND AL THOR]

Were you really that shocked about Ingtar?

 

Yes I was. I didn't expect it at ALL.

[Safia al-Maaz]

I was shocked when I found out Nynaeve and Lan were in love at the end of tEotW.  I actually went back and reread all the chapters with them just so I could pick it up...

[RAND AL THOR]

I was shocked when I found out Nynaeve and Lan were in love at the end of tEotW.  I actually went back and reread all the chapters with them just so I could pick it up...

 

same here. i didn;t pick up all the hints that are lying about in EOTW. there are quite a few-especially Nynaeve's determination to outperform Lan! nice

[Safia al-Maaz]

There really were a lot of hints to their relationship, but for me they were just so subtle and went along with Nynaeve's obstinate personality so well that I just did not pick it up at all...

[RAND AL THOR]

Back to the original topic,

There following is a web page where many fantasy authors discuss instances where an author revived a dead character. Thought it may be fun. ;)

 

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29503

[Guest Dreadlord]

Thanks for that, its quite an interesting discussion going there. I felt the need to post a reply, so I registsred (I posted as Titan Orion if anyone is going to look).

 

The thing about that discussion though is that it seems like many of them are looking at resurrection from a PoV from within a world they have already created, and looking at how it wouldnt work in their own setting. If resurrection works within the boundaries you have set then its all fine and dandy as long as you put it across well enough.

 

Look at Wheel of Time, for example. RJ has made it so Rand being resurrected is a possibility, and it seems like it always has been possible. Its never been out of the question, what with all the prophecies, visions, viewings etc that point in resurrections general direction.

 

What gets me is this; there are so many people on here who think Rand being alive after dying would spoil things. Why? We have seen no such objections to teh situation with Ishamael/Moridin, Balthamel/Aran'gar, Aginor/Osan'gar, or Lanfear/Cyndane. Why cant the same happen to Rand? Hell, we've even seen Mat die and live again. Why can't Rand have the same happen to him? A lot of people seem to want Rand to stay dead, but I myself would love for him to be alive at the end. I want him to die, as stated in the prophecies, and then somehow be brought back to life; it seems to have been building up to that for a while now.

 

[RAND AL THOR]

Dreadlord, my reasons for starting the thread are these:

 

In WOT it is theoretically impossible to bring a dead person back to life. "Death cannot be Healed" is well known among AS. What the DO does is an evil act of transferring a person's soul into another person's body.

 

Since everybody is reborn, the souls of people who die must be somewhere while awaiting rebirth. I am assuming that the DO plucks the souls from this 'somewhere (possibly TAR but unlikely)' and puts them in a new body.

 

The way that Mat's prophecy of dying and living again was fulfilled is quite different from what would happen to Rand (I'm assuming Rand won't simply be killed and the killer balefired to return Rand to life).

 

Sooooooo, the problem becomes-how will it be done, without damaging any of the existing rules? You did point out a strog point: Since book 2 we have been aware that Rand would die and possibly live again. While reading the next 9 books, this idea has only been reinforced in our minds and we are actually expecting it to happen now.

 

I'm sure that RJ had a nice ending planned. My continued wish is that Rand's revival does not violate the exisitng rules in any way. If anyone doesn't understand that well, I'll just give a few instances where the exisitng rules WOULD be violated:

 

-Any power related healing of death.

-dead person returned to life after several hours. This is not limited by WOT rules but rather by ordinary rules. Body organs quickly fail after death. Even if you wish to donate, I believe that 4 hours is the max time.

-Creator intervention. This would be extremely disappointing. Practically every arguement in this forum about TG is based on the assumption that the Creator will not interfere.

 

I hope you get the idea. What nags at me most is the manner of the revival. OF course we have no idea how that is going to be. IF the delay between death and revival is going to be medically challenging......I'm not sure what I'd think of that.

[Guest Dreadlord]

I wasnt saying an outright resurrection should/will happen, or that Ishamael/Aginor etc were resurrected at all. My point is that many of the people who use these forums have stated that they will be dissapointed if Rand doesnt stay dead. Yet they werent disapointed when Ishamael, Aginor, Balthamel and Lanfear were all reincarnated (or transmigrated as people seem to prefer to call it, but I stick by reincarnation).

 

If Ishamael and all that lot didnt stay dead, why should Rand?

[RAND AL THOR]

Thankfully I'm not one of those guys who want Rand to stay dead.

 

I believe that the people who DO say that say it because they believe it would be a more dramatic ending. And lets not forget the Rand's body is really busted.