Civil War Mafia: The Abolitionists Are Coming! Game Over!

[DPR]

I'm still catching up on stuff - and Luthine, how do explain this? Just wondering and all.....

 

Quote from: the dude on June 02, 2008, 05:09:47 PM

no, loki, i don't think i'm going to be doing any of those things.  

 

[glow=red,2,300]for the record, i didn't view kivam as guilty.  i viewed him as a turncoat.  i wasn't given an alignment, just a role description.[/glow]

 

i'm outta here for the day.  let's see what happens overnight...  have a good one you guys.

 

Quote from: the dude on May 22, 2008, 11:18:15 AM

Sure, thing, Sirayn.

 

(1)  Kivam's a dangerous player.  It was between him and you, and I went with him.

 

(2) [glow=red,2,300]At the time of my viewing viewing, he showed up as currently innocent.[/glow]  I'm inferring right now that he's evil.  He voted for 2 innocents yesterday, which is suggestive, and for the rest, I'm banking that he won't resist the temptation to turn.

 

(3)  I see your point here, and I don't have a logical explanation here.  The cat's a little out of the bag anyway at this point, so I guess this is moot, but I'm going on gut with this one.

 

(4)  My PM says that [glow=red,2,300]I have the normal finder role, with the added bonus of getting one "free" viewing at the beginning of the game, which was an innocent.[/glow]  That could be suggestive I suppose, of there being others, but I'm not really thinking so.  There was no explicit mention of such a thing.

 

And I know it was risky, but I think you'll find that this should work in our favor, if you'll indulge me and give my claim some credence.

 

the dude is a lieing liar who lies.

yes dude, you can curse my imaculate memory if you wish.

 

 

untill i remebered that, there was also the fact that you aboslutly refuse to admit that you could be wrong and are pushing so hard for a jelly lyynch. which is leading me to believe that rather than a inoccent with inforamtion, you are mafia pushing to control a lynch and get what could be our actual finder. baring anything else, my vote is on you tommorow

 

Now, I am mafia and a "gambler".

 

Which one is it?

 

[Luthine]

*bites lip*

 

I don't know... he said he just forgot...

 

*wrings her hands*

 

If it's any comfort, I'll slap myself silly and volunteer to be lynched Day 1 my next games if I'm wrong ;)

[Daetirion]

I am in no condition to be playing this

 

however one must make ones attempts. As much as i dislike theDude's frequent withholding of information, persistent attempt to lynch and lying, if i ignore the whole finder thing, you are very suspicious.

And losing you is potentially far better than losing a finder claimant

 

I've had moments of genius by going with gut feeling - now my guts telling me to lynch all 3 and the hell be done with this mess

 

Still have my offer open to place the last vote on DPR if someone is willing to vote for him...

[Alys Kinch]

vote count:

dpr- blig, leelou, dae, luthine, the dude

the dude- jelly, dpr, verbal

 

six to lynch, eleven left.

 

not voting: boyo, may, loki

[Luthine]

I am in no condition to be playing this

 

however one must make ones attempts.

 

I've had moments of genius by going with gut feeling - now my guts telling me to lynch all 3 and the hell be done with this mess

 

roflmao

You speak so true, they made me so confused that I can't remember my name anymore...

 

JK, I know my name's Barmy

[Alys Kinch]

i hope you guys know that i have to work all morning tomorrow and then get ready for a wedding, so if a decision sin't made by tonight... you may well have to wait all weekend. *not trying to scare you all with the boredom or anything* :P we all know that barms is never around to take care of this stuff... ever.

[DPR]

I really don't know what to say to that. But it did make me think of a scenario. Why are so many people acting so suspiciously?

 

- maybe it will make sense. maybe it will get me lynched. I have no idea at this point -

 

So, I've tried to figure out why Vemy acted so weird when he was innocent. Everyone was so sure he was evil based on it - and he was not.

Then Blig starts acting one way, and suddenly shifts over to acting evil. That was weird as well

Dae is riding the fence something awful,and has been called on it.

Luthine, who has been an ace the entire game is suddenly content with the worst explanation for a lie of all time.

And Dude has gone back and forth acting evil, then innocent, then evil, and is obviously working some kind of a plan.

 

So how does this all add up?

 

Well. Kivam has been confirmed as the turncoat. But we don't have an explanation of what that role does. What if it was a recruiting role?  I mean, why have Kivam and Sirayn on the same evil team and have him be a turncoat. That has always confused me.

But, if Sirayn was chosen to be the queen mother of the evils, and Kivam was the turncoat who could recruit, then they would have a lot to plan for. And the game would be twisty and confusing - kind of like it is now.

What if a certain number of players were chosen to be recruits, and if you accepted the offer, you would have to wait for a certain action to take place before you were officially turned?  Vemy would have been an excellent choice as an evil. Blig would have been a good choice as a cover. And Dude would be an awesome choice.

 

So, Sirayn and Kivam come up with a plan to recruit these players. Maybe one of the players figure out who had sent it, and vig killed Sirayn instead of accepting it? or, more likely, someone who got an invitation was a bomb, and Sirayn died.

 

If you are recruited, it is in your best interest to play as an evil becaue you know you will be investigated, found innocent, and then you can turn. It's how several games have turned out, so there is a precedence. And it explains Kivam's role, wonky finder roles, and strange player behavior.

 

So I'm back to Dude. Why lie like that and come up with "I forgot". That's the worst excuse of all time. Have any of you ever had a role and forgot how it works? Especially if it is the normal Finder role? is there anyone who does not know how the finder role works?

 

But, interestingly, Jelly investigated Dude last night, and he was innocent.

 

I believe that he started as innocent.

I believe that he might have been given a wonky finder role.

Then I believe that he might be the proud recipient of an invitation to join the evil team.  Which effectively makes him an innocent symp.

So, now he can focus on taking out the other finder, Jelly.

he has no idea how her role works, so he goes in for the kill in case she finds him as mafia.

But when she found him as innocent, he must have jumped for joy. Because right now, he still is. And when he get's her lynched and she's innocent, he can go back and say, "well, she was right after all".

Or, when he gets lynched and is innocent, he'll still take out valuable players (me) with him.

 

This is the level of complexity that I believe this game is at. This is the kind of plan that I think two mods like Barm and Alys would set up for Kivam and Sirayn. Instinctively, I've been trying to see this the whole game,  but I'm just now seeing how these pieces could fit together.

 

Now, I'm not suggesting that this is exactly how this game is going down, but don't you think that it is something like this? Does anyone else see anything in this?

 

Don't you think it's something a little more complex than "Dude really is a great guy who just forgot how a finder role worked"?

 

I'm keeping my vote on Dude. I'm doing my best to play and provide insightful content to help the innocents win. I'm still asking that everyone contruibute with ideas and opinions. Let's not go down as the innocent team that lost because the mafia told us that they forgot how the finder role worked.  

[DPR]

 

This is from Dae....and is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

Still have my offer open to place the last vote on DPR if someone is willing to vote for him...

 

Why in the world would somebody believe you when you cannot change the voting order? What do you think, they'll vote and then you'll tell the mods to kill you instead of them?

 

I don't think so. If you menat it, you would unvote, and then after the next person voted, you would throw down the hammer vote.

 

But you don't mean it, do you?

 

And who Just assumed that my bomb role would take out the one player that put the hammer vote on me? I don't even know how it works, but it seems to me that you have equal odds of it taking out a random person. Or a person with a role. Given how this game has turned out, you gonna just guess and go with that?

 

Or is this just another blatant piece of evidence that mafia is leading this game around. bleh

[Daetirion]

Well i was expecting someone to say 'im willing to make the vote', then i would unvote

 

As seeing you appear to be calling me on it [glow=red,2,300]unvote[/glow] but i stil reckon the most logical course of action may well be to lynch DPR, and thats what i am going to do, if someone votes DPR shortly

 

And as to the complexity - i just don't get this prisoner role, that turns into a bomb if Kivam is lynched. Seems very odd, especially as, and i quote 'I don't know my triggers'. Well we're all presuming it would be your death and that just seems  a wierd wierd statement.

 

I stand by my vote - if i'm wrong so be it

[DPR]

 

Yeah, because in a game themed around a war, a prisoner role makes no sense. A gambler? Sure, but not a prisoner.  :P

 

[Daetirion]

And it is tied to a turncoat how? And becomes a bomb why? And is specificly triggered by what?

 

It's just too odd. If i'm wrong so be it, lynch me or TheDude, i really won't mind. I almost just want this game to end now.

[Luthine]

Let's not go down as the innocent team that lost because the mafia told us that they forgot how the finder role worked.

 

Yeah, because in a game themed around a war, a prisoner role makes no sense. A gambler? Sure, but not a prisoner.

 

Ohhh the juicy sarcasm <3 Excellent.

 

It maybe the lack of sleep speaking but I'm tempted to unvote just to drag this out through the wkd  ;D

 

With this yet again, critically useful post, I am really off to bed. 

I'll be back tomorrow evening, hopefully with a clear head.

 

Good night and good luck.

[DPR]

 

From Dae again:

 

And it is tied to a turncoat how? And becomes a bomb why? And is specificly triggered by what?

 

It's just too odd. If i'm wrong so be it, lynch me or TheDude, i really won't mind. I almost just want this game to end now.

 

Look, I'm not trying to be a pain, but most mods are usually a little bit secretive about their roles. Especially in a game with new roles, else, what's the point?

 

And I can't help but scream when I see things like "It's just too odd". You find it odd that I have a complicated role in a complicated game with complicated players, but your totally cool with another player getting caught in a lie and making up their own role to suit their purpose-o-the-day?  You're killing me - we are so gonna lose.

 

Honestly, I know that burnout can make you want to tank a game, but don't ruin it for everyone else.

[SBoydW]

As I said I would do. [glow=red,2,300]The Dude[/glow] now to read the 7 ...  :o 8 pages that posted while I was away...

[Daetirion]

Its fairly simple DPR

 

Its ultimately a gamble - which gamble is going to hurt us least? taking out finders? or a role we only have your word for, having been viewed as guilty?

 

By i want no more, this is the decisive point in the game, where we find out one way or another - burnout? no. As most people know i aint been in the best of condition all game, so its hardly changed. At some point you have to say, enough is enough, and find out what the hell is going on. This is that point

[DPR]

 

Nicely ironic that I've been fighting to keep the finders around, and now you are going ot use that to try and take me out.

 

You yourself qouted Lynch All Liars.

 

The fact that you now support a known liar speaks clearly for itself.

 

You guys tried to work a plan while I was away, and while Loki was away and now we see what has become of it. Blatant refusal to account for a huge lie, and a push to take out a player that has contributed a great deal to the game and that you yourself have agreed with on several occasions.

 

You are marked, sir.

[SBoydW]

Yep daet definitely earned the mark of the axe for tomorrow... or rope as the case may be..

[Alys Kinch]

vote count:

dpr-(5) blig, leelou, dae, luthine, the dude

the dude-(4) jelly, dpr, verbal, boyo

 

six to lynch, eleven left.

 

not voting: may, loki

[SBoydW]

I thought that Dae unvoted... *scampers off to look*

[SBoydW]

yep... page 82 post #974

 

Well i was expecting someone to say 'im willing to make the vote', then i would unvote

 

As seeing you appear to be calling me on it [glow=red,2,300]unvote[/glow] but i stil reckon the most logical course of action may well be to lynch DPR, and thats what i am going to do, if someone votes DPR shortly

 

And as to the complexity - i just don't get this prisoner role, that turns into a bomb if Kivam is lynched. Seems very odd, especially as, and i quote 'I don't know my triggers'. Well we're all presuming it would be your death and that just seems  a wierd wierd statement.

 

I stand by my vote - if i'm wrong so be it

[Alys Kinch]

vote count:

dpr-(4) blig, leelou, luthine, the dude

the dude-(4) jelly, dpr, verbal, boyo

 

six to lynch, eleven left.

 

not voting: may, loki, dae

 

when will you guys learn that i am too distracted to count properly?

[Barmacral]

When you learn2count?

[Daetirion]

For those thinking im Mafia - look at my previous day's and consider whether a mafia would play like that.

 

Anyway, moot point. Slept on this (or rather didnt >.> was up most of the night which gave me time to think on this). Thinking that there are too many inconsistencies from TheDude, and too much in the way of danger in taking down DPR. Should we find TheDude innocent, DPR is top of my list.

[glow=red,2,300]

TheDude[/glow]

 

And let this be an object lesson to you all - don't ever log on when you are that tired, and then try and play Mafia properly

[Luthine]

Aww Dae, don' be scared off, come back to the bright side! (we have cookies  ;) )

 

Having slept on it, I'm happy keeping my vote on DPR.

I'm not gonna play who to trust or who's the less odd because at this point, I could point out strange behavior from anyone.

 

So looking at it from another pov, it comes down to: who do you think is Finder? I toyed with the idea of having 2 wonky Finders but it seems pretty obvious now that one of them has to be Mafia.

 

If DPR/Jelly were right:

DPR is innocent = a "prisoner" and a triggered bomb

Jelly is innocent = a Finder

real

paranoid (every one is mafia)

insane (opposite results)

crazy (random results)

or naive Finder (every one is pretty and innocent)

 

Viewings:

Day 1: Vemy appears mafia, he is an innocent Mason

>> Jelly

real

paranoid (every one is mafia)

insane (opposite results)

crazy (random results)

or naive

 

Day 2: DPR appears mafia, according to him, correct viewing

>> Jelly

paranoid (every one is mafia)

insane (opposite results) If the viewing is correct, she can't be

crazy (random results)

 

Day 3: Jelly view herself innocent, correct viewing

paranoid (every one is mafia)

crazy (random results)

 

This leaves us with a crazy finder who gets totally random results and can only give out "alignments" not roles.

And it all comes down to this: do you really believe that in a game this complicated, we would be given a crazy finder, which is even worse than no Finder at all because it is just as useless but much more harmful?

 

On the other hand, Jelly's fake claim makes sense, as does the fact that she can't reveal roles since the Mafia can't know about them.

 

A few more things:

DPR, in a very uncharacteristic move, you result to finger pointing, trying to scare away people who voted for you:

 

Leelou the low-layer. No surprise there. Symp.

 

Blig - I totally said you were probably replaced because bcx was evil. And here you are waiting to roll on me at the first hint of a lynch.

About Dae

You are marked, sir.

 

And as a very smart player once said:

A truly innocent player with your experience would just say "go ahead and lynch me - I'll be innocent, you'll be evil and my team can go on to victory". But you didn't. Because you're not innocent.

 

So why don't you? By your own words, you should be Mafia ^^ 

[Daetirion]

I like the idea of going with Vemy's early assertations - he's an underrated player in many ways, and its a shame he went down early.

 

Of course, this leads to the question... is it ultimately better to take down Jelly? I don't want to start a 3rd vote, but i guess if we lynch her.. well common theory is that at worse she is a Crazy finder, at best a Mafia fakeclaim. Less repercussions than lynching DPR with his supposed claim, and less than losing a claimed finder (who we still have suspicions may be true)

 

and yeaaaah, i have an exam in 2 hours and shouldnt be online but this is far too interesting