Announcing

[Captain General Miraj]

Why hasn't Rand announced to the world that saidin is clean?

 

 

[aevogt]

I'd say that one of the great advantages of having the Ash'aman is that his reluctant allies, i.e. most of the nobles, are a little too afraid of them to seriously consider outright betrayal.

[Kadere]

Because he's been resting and hiding for the Forsaken who he just gave a great big "HEY! I'M OVER HERE!!!!" not all that long ago.

[Captain General Miraj]

Kadere Quote:

Because he's been resting and hiding for the Forsaken who he just gave a great big "HEY! I'M OVER HERE!!!!" not all that long ago.

 

 

Rand has Ash'aman and Aes Sedi who can spread the word by having signed documents destrubuted to the merchants in Tear, Cairhien, and Illian.  Signed documents can be posted in every capital city including Tar Valon and the major towns inside the nations esp. the ones on major trade routes.  The Aes Sedi can spread the word through their personal spies and the Ajah spies as well.  The documents could include a simple explanation of how he cleansed saidin including that Aes Sedi helped him cleanse it mentioning Nynaeve Sedi of the Yellow Ajah (the healing Ajah). 

[Kadere]

Well he's already got the Asha'man telling the Salidar Aes Sedai. And posting notes all over the countries would be a good way of telling every darkfriend what he's been up to. Not to mention most sane people wouldn't believe for an instant that Saidin was cleansed after 3,000 years. Telling how he did it would only alert interested parties in the fact that he has access to the Choden Kal. Not to mention, he's been resting and hiding from all the attention cleansing Sadin has caused him.

[Guest Dreadlord]

This is something Ive been wondering about myself actually. Having said that though, there are a few things that come to mind.

 

Firstly, he is a man who can channel-would people believe him? There are that many rumors about him flying about that people would jump to many conclusions that would turn out badly in the long run. People rarely believe anything Aes Sedai say at all anymore, so even if they said "SAIDIN IS CLEAN" outright they would think the Aes Sedai are twisting the truth somehow. Rumors such as he is a Darkfriend and the Aes Sedai who say Saidin is clean are Black Ajah. Rand has no way to prove to the people that Saidin is clean, other than recruiting more Ashaman who will not eventually going insane. Its just a long run thing.

 

Also, Rand is figuring out that the Forsaken are hidden everywhere, that Darkfriends are ruining everything, and that if he did announce it then the Shadow would somehow make him regret doing so.

[Asmo]

Because few will believe him. If he goes to some common folk and tells them "Hey, I just created a huge conduit of saidar with the most powerful sa'angreal ever and then used its male counterpart to siphon saidin into the ancient city of Shadar Logoth and thus cleansed the True Source from the Dark One's Taint" most people will believe he's already mad. I mean, most people don't even believe in Trollocs.

 

Because noone cares whether saidin is tainted or not. Noone cares whether the Dragon Reborn is eventually going to go insane or not. Those that follow him follow him out of fear, need or personal gain. There are a few who are loyal to him, but it's not like he'd gain more followers or more dedicated followers in the world of politics by claiming he was not going to go insane.

 

Because even if he does persuade them, after 3000 years there is no way they would suddenly embrace men who could channel, especially in the form of the Asha'man. It's just not going to happen any time soon.

 

Because he wants people to fear him and the Asha'man. Fear is a strong motivation.

 

Because he isn't sure if he has cleansed the True Source properly. He is still hearing Lews Therin in his head, still feeling sick when he is about to channel, although most likely both are not a result of the taint, or even the One Power. He doesn't know that, though.

 

Because that would make certain all of the Forsaken know what he is about. For all he knows, some may believe he just wanted to destroy Shadar Logoth in a flashy way. If he claims to have cleansed the True Source, the Darkfriends would find a way to twist it and turn it against him.

 

Because men who can channel, who are the most important ones, probably already know or can be told privately by Asha'man recruiting parties.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Hmm...a couple of things wrong with that post Asmo.

 

QUOTE

Because he wants people to fear him and the Asha'man. Fear is a strong motivation

UNQUOTE

 

Dude, are you even reading the same books as the rest of us? Rand is feared not because he wants to be, but because he is prophecied to destroy everything as well as save everything, and because he will eventually go insane as far as people know. Rand only takes some nations the hard way because the easy way isn't an option in those instances.

 

QUOTE

Because that would make certain all of the Forsaken know what he is about. For all he knows, some may believe he just wanted to destroy Shadar Logoth in a flashy way. If he claims to have cleansed the True Source, the Darkfriends would find a way to twist it and turn it against him.

UNQUOTE

 

The Forsaken already know what he was about because the Cleansing is done and dusted. Its obvious why he did it; so the Ashaman wouldnt get any more insane than they already were.

[Asmo]

Dude, are you even reading the same books as the rest of us? Rand is feared not because he wants to be, but because he is prophecied to destroy everything as well as save everything, and because he will eventually go insane as far as people know. Rand only takes some nations the hard way because the easy way isn't an option in those instances.

 

Numerous times Rand states that he will bend the world over by fear if he has to, in the interest of uniting the nations against the Shadow. It's not a matter of choice or preference. It's what he feels he has to do.

 

The Forsaken already know what he was about because the Cleansing is done and dusted. Its obvious why he did it; so the Ashaman wouldnt get any more insane than they already were.

 

Rand doesn't know how much the Forsaken know. It's not like he put up a giant sign saying "HEY!! I'M CLEANSING SAIDIN HERE!!". How Cyndane knew, I don't know. They probably could work it out anyway. But Rand doesn't know that. And he probably assumes that because the male Forsaken are tied to the Dark One and channeling clean saidin anyway, they wouldn't feel the effects of the cleansing.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Numerous times Rand states that he will bend the world over by fear if he has to

UNQUOTE

 

That hardly means he prefers to rule by fear-like you said earlier-only that he is prepared to, if he must. Surely you didnt think Rand actually prefers to rule by fear? If you thought that then sorry but  yes, I think you dont know what youre on about.

 

QUOTE

Rand doesn't know how much the Forsaken know. It's not like he put up a giant sign saying "HEY!! I'M CLEANSING SAIDIN HERE!!". How Cyndane knew, I don't know. They probably could work it out anyway. But Rand doesn't know that. And he probably assumes that because the male Forsaken are tied to the Dark One and channeling clean saidin anyway, they wouldn't feel the effects of the cleansing

UNQUOTE

 

After 11 books Rand has obviously learned that he cant even scratch his behind without the Forsaken knowing about it, so he will assume that they already know Saidin is Cleansed.

[Asmo]

That hardly means he prefers to rule by fear-like you said earlier-only that he is prepared to, if he must. Surely you didnt think Rand actually prefers to rule by fear? If you thought that then sorry but  yes, I think you dont know what youre on about.

 

*sigh*

 

I didn't say he wants to rule the world by fear. I said he will if he must, and the way things are looking right now, with the Seanchan holding Tarabon and Amadicia and him being forced to either waste his forces to push them back or ally with them, both options potentially deadly, with the White Tower broken and the Aes Sedai not even knowing who or what they want to support, with the Forsaken spreading dissension everywhere and the nations fighting against each other all the time, there doesn't seem to be much option than to use fear, and he knows it.

 

After 11 books Rand has obviously learned that he cant even scratch his behind without the Forsaken knowing about it, so he will assume that they already know Saidin is Cleansed.

 

Yes, by now, he should be aware that the Forsaken know what he has done - they are not idiots after all. But he wouldn't want to flaunt his plans, else they'd find a way to turn them against him, like so often done in the past.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Because he wants people to fear him and the Asha'man. Fear is a strong motivation

UNQUOTE

 

Dude, I copied and pasted that quote from your post. Your words

[Asmo]

there doesn't seem to be much option than to use fear, and he knows it.

 

If you don't have any other option than to use fear, you use fear. If people thinking he or the Asha'man can snap at them and burn them where they stand any time, they are afraid. If they are afraid of him, they obey him. If they obey him, he succeeds in what he wants. If they stop believing he is half-mad, they will try to take advantage of that. Not much chance, but Cairhienin play Daes Dae'Mar all the time, so I'm sure they'll find a way through it. Other nations that join because they are afraid he will destroy them out of madness may not be so eager to rally to his cause. I'm not saying that's an accurate or correct viewpoint. I'm saying that's Rand's viewpoint.

[Guest Dreadlord]

That doesnt mean Rand prefers to use fear, or that Rand thinks fear is a better motivater; thats what you said in your post. Seriously, look back and check it mate.

 

And where is that quote from anyway? This is a speculation site so you cant use something from on here to prove your point, as its all speculation.

 

And yes, Rand does use fear IN SOME CASES, but no way in hell does he prefer to like you said, and there aren't even that many cases he HAS used fear. He has taken nations by force, BECAUSE THERE WAS NO OTHER OPTION, but we arten't even on about that.

 

The only thing I can remember Rand doing to make people obey him using fear is when he made it clear to the Tairens that he would come back by thrusting Callandor into the ground. Unless you count threats made to people like Taim, Asmodean etc but thats different.

[aevogt]

Based on POV's from Demandred and Osangar, and the topis of the Chosen Coffee Hour in WH, the Chosen knew exactly what he was up to, attempting to cleanse Saidin, as soon as they felt that beacon.

[Asmo]

That doesnt mean Rand prefers to use fear, or that Rand thinks fear is a better motivater; thats what you said in your post. Seriously, look back and check it mate.

 

When he needs to control people with fear, he wants them to fear him else he can't control them. Period.

 

And yes, Rand does use fear IN SOME CASES, but no way in hell does he prefer to like you said, and there aren't even that many cases he HAS used fear. He has taken nations by force, BECAUSE THERE WAS NO OTHER OPTION, but we arten't even on about that.

 

The only thing I can remember Rand doing to make people obey him using fear is when he made it clear to the Tairens that he would come back by thrusting Callandor into the ground. Unless you count threats made to people like Taim, Asmodean etc but thats different.

 

Rand uses fear a lot. He has bullied noblemen before by appearing to be slightly deranged into doing what he wanted. How come threatening individual people is different in this case than threatening an entire nation? And the only nation that wasn't forced to accept Rand was Illian - Tear accepted him because he had taken the stone, and Cairhien because he had defeated the Shaido. They had no choice on the matter. Anyway, Rand very often uses fear to control others, whether he likes it or not.

 

And one who uses fear as a measure of control, however involuntarily or out of need, has to have something to frighten the people he wants controlled. The ability to channel, at first. The Aiel. The madness.

 

As for your post, aevogt. I will repeat yet again, that Rand didn't know what the Forsaken were doing. They could have worked it out, probably, but it was Cyndane who warned them what he would do - without her they might not have guessed. Why would Rand assume that just because he flared up saidin like a mountain near Shadar Logoth the Forsaken who, according to Rand's knowledge, had no idea of his plans, would immediately assume he was trying to cleanse the Source.

[Guest Dreadlord]

The point is, Asmo, you said Rand prefers to rule by fear as its a better motivater. You were wrong. Rand does so only because there is no other way to make them listen. You made it sound like Rand actually prefers using fear. Fair enough, he will go to whatever lengths are required to make them obey, but there is now way that was Rands first choice at all.

 

Anyway, if you cant see your mistake now you never will, and this thread has gone waaaaay off topic. Back to the real subject.

 

I dont think Rand cares if people know whether or not Saidin is Cleansed. The Black Tower knows, the Aes Sedai who took part know and word will probably spread through the other Aes Sedai, and thats all thats needed. Whether or not the public know or not isnt an issue to Rand, because all he cares about in the long run is winning the Last Battle. Since the public dont generally interact the Ashaman or follow them in battle they have no reason to know, and even so they probably wouldnt believe that Rand could undo something the Dark One did.

 

It'd also create many openings for the Forsaken to spread rumors that Rands sanity truly no longer exists. All they need to say is "How can a mere man do what 3000 years worth of Aes Sedai could not?"

[benr]

There are so many things to do for Rand and his allies that he has to figure out the cost/benefits of everything (even if he doesn't know that he's doing that).  I can't see much benefit from this, even if a massive campaign could actually convince anyone.  As said earlier, the mistrust and fear of Rand and the Black Tower is so ingrained that the effort would have to be huge, and even if it worked, what would be the benefit? And how much time does he have to do this?  Maybe if he is around after TG, and still cares.

 

Nice if Rand could figure out how to cleanse racism, sexism, etc., too. 

[Guest Dreadlord]

You really think Rand-or anyone could stop racism/sexism? The only way I can see that happening is with an Oath Rod, and I really doubt Rand would even think about using one

[benr]

No, I don't.  Sigh.  It wasn't started by the DLs taint...or was it?

[Asmo]

The point is, Asmo, you said Rand prefers to rule by fear as its a better motivater. You were wrong. Rand does so only because there is no other way to make them listen. You made it sound like Rand actually prefers using fear. Fair enough, he will go to whatever lengths are required to make them obey, but there is now way that was Rands first choice at all.

 

Anyway, if you cant see your mistake now you never will, and this thread has gone waaaaay off topic. Back to the real subject.

 

*facepalm*

 

Can you even begin to comprehend what I am talking about?

 

Wanting to rule with fear is something Rand doesn't want.

 

However, he ends up forced to do it, since there's no other way the people who must obey him will do it.

 

NOW, WITH THAT A GIVEN.

 

Do you think, since Rand NEEDS to rule with fear, he would want people NOT to fear him, so that they won't obey him? Nonsense. Rand wants people to fear him, because that's the only way they will obey him. If there was another way, Rand wouldn't want them to fear him (particularly), but there isn't.

 

It's plain English man...

 

As for the rest of the points, they were already analyzed by myself and others beforehand. It's pretty basic, really.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Some people just dont like admitting theyre wrong do they Asmo