Something occurred to me last night...

[trakand_01]

We have a need to identify certain characters as Darkfriends or otherwise. In my (very personal) opinion, there are a few that are 'dubious' to my mind (and a couple of these are waaaaay beyond being simply dubious;

 

Taim (see what i mean)

Sheriam

Elaida

Weiramon

Darlin

Danelle

Roedran (if we ever meet him)

a few others.

 

So, I thought, how can we tell if these people are honest and trustworthy light-followers, or dirty rotten darkfriends?

 

Then it occurred to me that there was a way we could distinguish at least SOME of them as df's...

 

There was a character that was brought into the story, developed and I at least came to really like them. Then they disappeared, seemingly finished with the story. So why develop them so much?

 

Hurin.

[Luckers]

If Hurin couldn't decern Lanfear properly, he's hardly an accurate judge.

 

Beyond that, we know that Elaida is not a darkfriend.

[trakand_01]

But the suggestion given for why he couldnt 'smell' Selene was that it was likely she personally hadnt gotten her hands dirty. That was well before Kadere in the wagon, but I'm pretty sure Taim at the very least must have a particularly bad smell?

[Guest durram laddel cham]

yeah, but he also "legally" killed some channelers who were going insane. Didn't RJ once say that Hurin would return somewhere?

 

[Luckers]

Exactly, and we can't rely on our darkfriends to have dirtied their hands--which was my point. He missed Lanfear intirely... indeed, there is nothing to sustain that channeling violence even smells--its so distant, and not physical.

[trakand_01]

Fair enough I suppose.

 

But, if we assume that we have yet to see Hurin again, what can be his purpose? I think at this stage in the game, that the majority of characters we meet will have a specific duty in terms of plot progression.

[JenLenaMom]

I think Hurin has already played his role.  How else did the borderlanders get such detailed reports of his exploits very early on.  There were battles over whether he was the true Dragon Reborn.

[aussie_ashaman123]

Hurin Loial and Rand met Lanfear/Selene in the wierd world, where he could smell where violence would be, he admits it ends up messing up his sense of smell terribly, saying he could smell terrible violence over Selene, and still could. What he doesnt know is his nose was absolutely okay.

 

Darlin isnt a DF, nor is Sheriam, otherwise shed tell Aran'gar everything without her beating it out of her. Neither is Elaida, shes just a deluded, misguided megalomaniac whos let power go to her head.

 

Concerning Huron, I really do hope he becomes a new Hero of the Horn

[trakand_01]

Besides his 'sniffing' abilities, the overwhelming memory of Hurin's character that I have is that his strongest desire was to provide for his family, and protect them.

 

I'm struggling to see where he may return, at this late stage in the story.

[RAND AL THOR]

If I was Egwene, after getting the Tower, I would just summon every single Aes Sedai and make them swear on the oath rod again and ask them if they were BA as the group of AS in the tower were doing in the latter books.

We can at least eliminate the BA by doing this.

Elaida's mad she not BA, Sherium is most likely being blackmailed. I dont remeber Rodrelle or Danelle.

 

 

And Rand killed Aginor. Shouldnt Hurin have smelled something on him???

[aussie_ashaman123]

It was an act of self defence, which would smell a lot different than a cold blooded murder and probably wouldnt last as long. Besides, Hurin is from Sheinar, hes probably used to people smelling like they've killed something of the Shadow.

[sunshine + gasoline]

I certainly hope Hurin makes an apperance before the end. I loved that guy, he was what kept the second book normal when everything else was out there. The average man in big events so to say. Sure he could smell things but otherwise there was nothing special about him. I liked that.

[Luckers]

Hurin Loial and Rand met Lanfear/Selene in the wierd world, where he could smell where violence would be, he admits it ends up messing up his sense of smell terribly, saying he could smell terrible violence over Selene, and still could. What he doesnt know is his nose was absolutely okay.

 

Except that they continue on with Selene for nearly a week after leaving that place.

 

Darlin isnt a DF, nor is Sheriam, otherwise shed tell Aran'gar everything without her beating it out of her. Neither is Elaida, shes just a deluded, misguided megalomaniac whos let power go to her head.

 

Darlin does seem to have too much integrity to be a darkfriend, but the fact is that we don't know for sure.

 

As for Sheriam, we have no indication that it is Aran'gar beating her--freankly it seems much more likely that it is either Delana or Lelaine given her comment about wishing she'd never even seen a sitter in her life.

 

Besides her clear free will shows that she is being blackmailed, which moots the point. Either she isn't a darkfriend, and is being beaten by another not-darkfriend, or she isn't a darkfriend and doesn't know her attacker is a darkfriend, or she is a darkfriend and her attacker isn't.

 

If she were a darkfriend and her a attacker were, the comment about sitters would be different. If she weren't a darkfriend and knew her attacker was, then no matter how bad her transgression she would reveal it.

 

If I was Egwene, after getting the Tower, I would just summon every single Aes Sedai and make them swear on the oath rod again and ask them if they were BA as the group of AS in the tower were doing in the latter books.

 

Care would have to be taken--if they learnt what was occuring they would flee, and if any attempt to detain them were made it would lead to a bloodbath. You would have to move in absolute secrecy until every single name was known.

[trakand_01]

As for Sheriam, we have no indication that it is Aran'gar beating her--freankly it seems much more likely that it is either Delana or Lelaine given her comment about wishing she'd never even seen a sitter in her life.

 

 

That was what I thought at first too, the comment about speaking to Sitters made me think that. I think actually she thought she wished she'd "never spoken to anyone in the Hall", but then I came up against something that put me off it being Delana or Lelaine;

 

she didnt know there was anyone in the tent until she entered. Surely if there was a sister of Delana or Lelaine's standing in there, she'd have sensed them before it was too late?

 

which is what made me think it was Halima - 'anyone in the Hall' could be Delana who of course tells Halima everything, but Sheriam wouldnt sense halima because she doesnt channel saidar.

[aussie_ashaman123]

Thats the way i made sense of it, add to the fact that Delana seems more on Egwenes side i think indicates that Sheriam would confide in her more readily than someone who would use the information to oust Egwene and take her spot.

[Luckers]

she didnt know there was anyone in the tent until she entered. Surely if there was a sister of Delana or Lelaine's standing in there, she'd have sensed them before it was too late?

 

Not nessasarily. Women miss the sensation all the time--for instance Galina and Coiren stood within a metre of Egwene in LoC and yet didn't sense her, and incidents in that tent happened fast. All it requires is for Sheriam to be pre-occupied (which she was) and she could easily have missed the sensation.

 

Also, around the same time knowledge of the method of masking the ability was spreading through the camp, which could also explain it.

[RAND AL THOR]

Yeah, luckers I know that what I said about the oath rod thingy is not practical. Its just that I am going totally insane with all the hidden black ajah and not knowing who are darkfriends. You can trust so few people! I want the BA eliminated so that Rand has a pure team of channelers at TG.

 

I have read few books where you have to suspect so many characters. This is actually exciting, though infuriating at times. The suspicion gives rise to a lot of speculation and suspense. RJ is a master of suspense.

[aevogt]

And Rand killed Aginor. Shouldnt Hurin have smelled something on him???

 

Rand did not kil Aginor.  Aginor flamed himself by drawing too much of the Eye.

 

Presumably, Hurin ignores the smell of violence coming off people he knows or trusts.

 

 

[tallasse]

A couple of things:

 

1) Didn't Hurin say that the smell of violence fades over time?  I'm at work, so I can't check tGH, but I believe he said that he could faintly smell a battlefield years old, but the trails would have faded.  After 3000 years, I imagine that pretty much anything Lanfear may have done personally could have faded.

 

2) When they were in the world reached by the Portal Stones, where he could smell the past and future blended together, I believe he said he could smell violence, terrible things from all of them, even her.  I think he even apologized to Selene for being able to smell the terrible violence on her.  I think he chalked it up to the world itself being strange, but he did smell violence from her.

[42Bonzo88]

    Two things:

 

    1. About Egwene telling all Aes Sedai to come to the tower and take the Oath Rod and swear. The Hall would never allow that to happen and like someone else said that the BA would just run or find a way around not having to do that. Also, Egwene herself has not used the Oath rod. I believe that will play a big factor (yes, I think her test for Accepted means something) during either her assension to the Amrylin or TG.

 

    2. About Hurin coming back in the last book. If the world is fighting the DO they are going to need as much help as possible. Also, Hurin was very close to Rand so could be a diplomat for King Easar.

[bronnt]

As for Hurin, I'm pretty sure I saw a quote from RJ saying that he wouldn't appear directly in the story again.  His indirect impact on the story was the mess going on in the Borderlands during tDR and tSR, and ultimately led to the Borderland Alliance army moving south.

 

I also thought I remember reading about a plot by one of the Forsaken, or maybe it was Taim, which was manipulating Weiramon.  I don't remember where I read it, but I thought it was convincing.  Though now I can't really remember what they said.

 

Personally, I like Darlin too much to think he's a DF.  Remember, he was the guy who popped out half-dressed to fight Mat in the Stone.  I really hope he doesn't turn out to be one.

 

Sheriam surely isn't, because of the beating incident.  Luckers has that right.  It just doesn't fit that she was being beaten by Black Ajah.  I've got to think that's related to Lelaine-she seems like the kind of closet sadist who might be beating a fellow sister.  Elaida definately is not-Alviarin knows the name of every Black Sister, and she wouldn't need to manipulate Elaida if Elaida were black-she could just order her around.

 

Danelle is interesting.  I've heard theories that she might be Mesaana.  It fits that Mesaana would be a brown, given her background.  There's more about that theory here: http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=45

 

Taim is definately black.  Not only black, but raising the DO's new army of male Dreadlords.  There are truckloads of evidence that connect him to the Forsaken.  His quote at the end of KoD should have removed all lingering doubt.  His color scheme is pretty much Ishydin's.

[Majsju]

RJ intended to bring Hurin back in AMOL. Of course, that now depends on if he left behind any notes regarding when and where Hurin would show up, and what he was supposed to do.

[trakand_01]

 

Not nessasarily. Women miss the sensation all the time--for instance Galina and Coiren stood within a metre of Egwene in LoC and yet didn't sense her, and incidents in that tent happened fast. All it requires is for Sheriam to be pre-occupied (which she was) and she could easily have missed the sensation.

 

Was that when Rand hid her behind a wall of Saidin? They did sense her - in the carriage after they left they said something to the notion of "Does anyone know who the Sister that shared our meeting was?" They knew someone was there but didnt know who or where they were.

[Luckers]

Only Nesune notices her, which was why I left her out. Galina and Coiren missed her entirely. Which is my point, its entirely possible for a female channeler to miss noticing another female channeler, even if she is within arms reach.

[aussie_ashaman123]

yes it is, but only when they take everything for granted. Youd think, after the first time (i get the feeling that wasnt the first time that'd happened) Sheriam would learn to be a lot more observant