Rand's Harem

[Rahela Sedai]

I don't know about you guys, but I alwas thought Rand's harem was a bit of a farfetched idea. I mean is it really fair for one guy to have all three of those women and for them to share the love of their life? Or should I say that is it really fair because they're all going to drive him bonkers before TG with all their ridiculousness.

 

I mean they're three really stubborn set in their ways women, 1 Aes Sedai, 1 Wise One in training, and 1 oracle. How does he handle it?

 

I'm a woman and even I don't understand it; I mean he has to deal with 3, well 2, cases of PMS EVERY MONTH.

[42Bonzo88]

      I am the 4th great grandson of a man who had 11 wives. He lived in about 7 different places and had his wives spread out that way (in other words no more than 2 or 3 in the same house) and then he would live in one of the places for about a season. He was a farmer and also built Mills. I haven't really alot of information on how well they all got along, but there is an example of how it could be done.

    Just imagine the family reunions!! *shudder* lol

 

[Harmless Bandit]

Rand would be stupid to try hanging out with the three of them at the same time and all the time. That would quickly accomplish what the taint has so far failed to do.

 

At least the three ladies are on more than good terms, and understand their situation. I say, if they are pigheaded enough to hook up with a man who is doomed to go bonkers and reduce the world to shreds in the first place, then they can handle sharing said man.

 

And as for the idea of three wives/women itself, I believe him being ta'veren has something to do with it. In itself it is a feasible thing, but throw in ta'vereness, and the odds are ridiculously increased.

 

Mmm, perhaps a bit stretched.

[trakand_01]

I do think it is a little far fetched, but I think there is good reason for it. If he fell in love with the first woman he met (Min), and stayed with her throughout the books we would be a little bored, I think. Also as he is in many different places, he could not feasibly be with one woman all the time (Min, Aviendha, Elayne all have their own 'plots'), and knowing what we do of Rand I think his POVs would become quite tiresome after a while with no love interest to keep us fickle women happy.

 

The more I read though, the more I think about it, I think the reason for there being three women, and one other bonded to Rand has more to do with the bond than any romantic plots. I think there will likely be some sort of 'event' in aMoL that the bond will play a part in.

[aussie_ashaman123]

i think the 3 women symbolise the different sorts of people. Aviendha ties him to the aiel, elayne ties him to the rulers of the wetlands, the nobles and royalty, and Min ties him to the commoners.

[Guest nephitess]

I think you may be right Assie...it would make sense...then the people can see that he does not discriminate. and it also halep to give him power over said groups. *nods*

[Luckers]

These characters are not in your culture, however. And polygamy is hardly a new concept, nor even a rare one. Indeed, the initial reason it was outlawed (in the west, at least) was to stop the practice of fathers marrying their daughters off to pay for debts.

[Death Dragon]

Why should this be offensive? As said above, it's not in your culture and it doesn't affect you. Heck, it's not in my culture either, and I'm fine with it. Even in real life, polygamy isn't necessarily bad. I think it's perfectly possible to love more than one person at once: rare, but possible. Why should it be viewed as "disgusting?"

 

Now, there's the matter of actually dealing with three women . . . poor Rand. If they all actually, y'know, survive, he'll have to start dealing with all three at once. I can imagine him accidentally 'slighting' one of them. "Hmm . . . none of my wives are talking to me . . . crap I screwed up again, didn't I."

[Rasta Ashaman]

Offensive? Disgusting? It would have been, were it forced - but if it suits all the parties fine, where's the problem?

 

I'm a woman and even I don't understand it; I mean he has to deal with 3, well 2, cases of PMS EVERY MONTH.

 

Reaching for the void and chanting 'Aum...Shanti...Aum' might help with that; but what about having to deal with 3 mothers-in-law? having to hear 3 versions of 'Oh, my daughter deserved so much better than you!' (and knowing that is true)...

 

DEATHGATE! DEATHGATE! DEATHGATE!

[Rahela Sedai]

Let me make it clear that I don't find the idea offensive or disgusting, I just kinda feel bad for the guy hvaing to deal with 3 very stubborn strong minded intelligent women who can tend to accuse him of doing something wrong and then not tell him what it is.

[Orange Fescue]

I don't know that the idea of multiple wives getting along is necessarily far-fetched. One of the books I read recently (possibly Guns, Germs and Steel, possibly The World Without Us, I read enough that sources get confused) mentioned an east African forest ranger with whom the author had spent time while researching the book.

 

In his culture (Massai?), men traditionally had as many wives as they could afford and a whole boatload of children. This young man, considered himself to be fairly progressive and modern--he was a forest ranger instead of a traditional herdsman--and had decided he would have only one wife and two children in the western fashion. 'Twas a lovely idea until he told his lady love about it. She was livid at the idea of being "all alone in the marriage." To calm her down, he had to compromise and agree to get a second wife eventually.

 

Whether or not polygyny will work with the al Thor household, I don't know. The young couple I mentioned were both from a culture where polygyny is expected whereas three out of the four in Rand's group marriage are from monogamous cultures. The girls are all strong-willed but seem to get along in the way Aiel sister-wives are supposed to.

 

Group marriages aren't my thing but, as several have said, everyone is a consenting adult and I tend to mind my own business unless children or force are involved. There also doesn't seem to be a centralized religious authority forbidding it. The closest thing would be the Tower and the only ajah with sisters who marry, the Green, seem to tend towards polyandry.

[Rahela Sedai]

Well Aviendha's culture is somewhat polygamous, with the whole sister-wives thing. But I'm not worried about them getting along. I'm more worried about them all ganging up on Rand hahaha.

[Majsju]

Why not look at things any sane person would find unacceptable in the real life, murder, torture, slavery, rape, to just mention a few (and out of those four, the Light has been guilty of three...)

 

Heard any complaints about that recently? 

 

Of course not. It is a book. It is fiction, not real. The only thing I would find unacceptable is if the books were poorly written, and if they were I would what I did with SOT, and simply quit reading.

[Luckers]

Agreed. This is not purporting such a lifestyle, merely portraying it. The Seanchan actively practice slavery, yet i think one and all we've come to indentify with the likes of Tuon and Leilwin. Even with Bethamin and Seta.

 

These characters are, ostensibly, people, living specific lives ruled by their own codes. Because those lives differ from what your code prescribes is not a judgement on you.

 

And of the things you've raised... Aiel and Shienaran covort quite openly naked--and the atha'an'miere don't wear tops at sea. I'd not do that, but I'm not complaining either. And incest--it may not be in this book, but if you've ever read the Song of Ice and Fire you'd see it there--a brilliant series, and yet i do indeed reguard incest as being repulsive.

 

It's simply... not taking it personally.

[Majsju]

Depends what you mean with young. I would have loved these books when I was 12-13, and would not have any problems recommending it to kids that age if I felt they were up to it.

[Luckers]

Mmm. I got the Eye of the World for my thirteenth birthday--along with a Game of Thrones. The first i loved and had no issues with, the second i simply couldn't get through because i found it too confrontational. When i went back to it at sixteen i loved it though.

[Safia al-Maaz]

I started reading WoT when I was 14, and I did not really understand some of the insinuations worked in the series until I reread it.  But I always loved the series.  And besides, it is a fictional series, so things that would not happen in real life can happen in books.  I.e. you would not see someone walking around using the Force now would you?  That would be a tad bizare.  In most of the western world today you would not see three women married to the same guy, but in a book, why not?  I think the fact that it normally would never happen makes the story much more entertaining and interesting. 

[Bnots]

I certainly have no problem with an author writing a fictional situation that involves polygamy.  Fiction need not advocate what's taking place within it (besides, even if a RL culture outside my own advocates it, it's none of my business as far as I'm concerned so long as basic human rights aren't being abused).

 

The issue with Rand's harem, for me, is whether it's likely those three particular women would allow themselves to "share" him? 

 

In-story cultural acceptance of polygamy aside, these are all three very strong-willed women, two of whom, after a fashion, wield considerable power over most other people in the world by their ability to channel.  One is ruler over one of the larger and prosperous nations in the "Wetlands."  As unlikely as she is to share political power with anyone but perhaps Egwene's White Tower--heck, once she takes control of Andor she basically abandons Rand's cause for a time to secure her own power--how likely is it she would share her man?  One is essentially a commoner, who is repeatedly confronted with the fact that outside of her special ability she is unremarkable.  Realistically, how would she deal with the jealousy of sharing a man with two attractive women who channel, one a daughter-heir/queen?  And given Aviendha's cultural background as a former-Maiden and future-Wise One, even where it might be expected that polygamy would be accepted, how likely is it that she would tie herself to a situation/three people so far outside the Aiel cultural heritage?

 

Min solves her problem with her absolute, even sometimes depressing, commital to her place in the Pattern.  She accepts sharing Rand because she believes she has no other choice.

 

Elayne and Aviendha are meant to tie Rand to "their people," moreso than Min, who IMO is there to be the friend and mother figure that "good wives" are presumed to be.  Yes, Elayne and Aviendha obviously love Rand and, if it comes down to it, will place his well-being above essentially any other individual (besides perhaps their other "first sisters"), but even superceding their love for Rand is their responsibility to their own "people." 

 

I actually consider the twins as a deplorable use of Rand's love for Elayne--it is insurance against Rand abandoning Andor, including if it is opposed by another human faction (including another allied with him).  Elayne certainly loves Rand a great deal, yes, but she also is willing to use his love for her own political advantage to the point that she will accept sharing him.  She is even able to forgo the political disadvantages of openly allying with 'The Dragon Reborn' because Rand is such a fool for her that she can keep him out of Andoran politics once she comes into her power (in so far as pre-TG politics are concerned).  That other female channelers throughout the series, including Egwene (in a more subtle way than the others maybe) see Rand's love as a means to control him, makes Elayne's participation in this "plot" a mark against her personal character in my eyes. 

 

Some of Aviendha's interests are less personal than Elayne's--she's not looking to secure her own power--but her loyalty to the Aiel results in much the same situation.  I can forgive her to the extent that I think, personally, she does not want to be the instrument by which the Aiel (Wise Ones) "use" Rand, but she is willing to let her duty supercede these feelings in many cases anyway.

 

Sooooooooooooo....

 

Sorry for so long a post.  I'll guess I'd say that, in conclusion, there are some reasons that suggest this three-way sharing of Rand would not realistically work among the people concerned, but there are also valid reasons to suspect that it would, especially if we accept that the three women cling to something even greater than their love for him, whether it be belief in the Pattern, security for her kingdom, or duty to her people.

[benr]

Nicely said, Bnots.  Its all about whether the actions of the individuals fits their characters as presented.  We need to consider Rand, too - he can't believe that any woman could rationally be attracted to him. (I know, I know - this is not an area where rational thought is all that important.) He's more than willing to take the good times, though - after a little self serving soul searching.  Not to begrudge him the good times, considering everything else. 

 

About Elayne's and Rand's twins.  Is there any possibility of unusual ties between them - especially regarding the power?  Linked for life?  Bonded at birth?  Maybe they won't be able to touch the power! 

[aussie_ashaman123]

you do have some good points Bnots, but i have to disagree.

 

Elayne does not use her influence with Rand for her own political power. The twins she is pregnant with Rand does not even know about. I think she loves him so much that she is willing to rick losing the crown rather than turn her love into a tool.

 

Aviendha did not want to fall in love with Rand, even though it would certainly tie the aiel to him. She fought against it as hard as she could, for as long as she could. She has even tried to learn Wetlander ways so she could marry him.

 

Elayne and Min have both tried to learn Aiel ways, and Min is looked upon as a kind of Wise One by the Aiel.

 

As for the twins, I think theyll probably channel, with it on both sides of the genes. Other than that, one will be Queen of Andor and the other probably King of Andor (Asha'man rulers! ;D). Aviendhas babes will be the really special ones, according to Mins viewing

[sunshine + gasoline]

My only problem with the so called "harem" is that it's badly written in my opinion. All of these women (except maybe Aviendha)  met Rand once and then were pretty much madly in love with/obsessed with him. I guess it happens but when it happens two times to one man and everybody is willing to accept sharing him it feels way to easy to me.

 

I also find it annoying how easily these women in the earlier books looked aside the fact that Rand was doomed to go mad and die. Not much to do with the harem issue I guess but it effectivly made them bimbos to me.

 

In fact I would have prefered Rand single when I think about it. Then again, I guess I just don't like any of the three girls all that much. =/

 

 

[Andrew the Great]

My only problem with the so called "harem" is that it's badly written in my opinion. All of these women (except maybe Aviendha)  met Rand once and then were pretty much madly in love with/obsessed with him. I guess it happens but when it happens two times to one man and everybody is willing to accept sharing him it feels way to easy to me.

 

I disagree. This is not bad writing, as there is an explanation for it. As mentioned earlier, Rand's "harem" effectively ties him to several groups of people. He would need these connections, and the wheel would provide them for him in order to maintain balance. He is, after all, ta'veren(sp?). In any case, in a normal situation, this would be unrealistic, but this isn't exactly a normal situation. Min and Elayne both comment multiple times about how they feel foolish for the reasons you mentioned, not having developed any relationship at all. They just can't help it (IMO, because the wheel won't let them help it...).

[sunshine + gasoline]

My only problem with the so called "harem" is that it's badly written in my opinion. All of these women (except maybe Aviendha)  met Rand once and then were pretty much madly in love with/obsessed with him. I guess it happens but when it happens two times to one man and everybody is willing to accept sharing him it feels way to easy to me.

 

I disagree. This is not bad writing, as there is an explanation for it. As mentioned earlier, Rand's "harem" effectively ties him to several groups of people. He would need these connections, and the wheel would provide them for him in order to maintain balance. He is, after all, ta'veren(sp?). In any case, in a normal situation, this would be unrealistic, but this isn't exactly a normal situation. Min and Elayne both comment multiple times about how they feel foolish for the reasons you mentioned, not having developed any relationship at all. They just can't help it (IMO, because the wheel won't let them help it...).

 

I am aware of that but what I was saying (and let me be clear in a blunt manner) is that I consider it bad writing when RJ is too lazy to develop something so he creates plot "tools" like "The Wheel made it happend.".

 

Let's just say that sure it is an explanation like you said and it works to an extent but I would have much rather seen a growing relationship like what happens with Aviendha.

 

To be even more plain; I think it's utterly lame that Lanfear and Rand got more relationship development than two of his supposed love intrests.

 

On the other hand I guess I should NOT complain too much seeing how RJ developed the Faile and Perrin relationship which was utterly dreadful and a pain to read about. I guess I should be happy it takes so little space in the otherwise brilliant books after all.

 

*has nightmares about Rand + Faile*  :'(

[Vambram]

I disagree, Sunshine+gasoline. To me, when I read the books, the scenes with Perrin & Faile; and also the scenes with Rand & any one of his three women whom he loves, and love him, ... to me, these are among the best character developing scenes in the entire series, and they are written by one of the greatest fantasy authors of all time.

[Andrew the Great]

*has nightmares about Rand + Faile*  :'(

 

I may disagree with you on some points, but that just made my day!